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Old 06-09-2016, 11:10 AM   #676
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please don't state unfounded accusations about the Clinton foundation as fact. Again, fox style BS
I'm sorry, are you defending the Clinton Foundation and acting like it's RWNJ who are the only ones who take issue with it?
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Old 06-09-2016, 11:14 AM   #677
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Old 06-09-2016, 11:16 AM   #678
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I actually don't really like Hillary (love Bill tho).

What gets me behind her is the absolute hatred thrown her way, and now it's coming from a side that she's on.

Obama took his lumps from the Right. I'm wondering if Obama was going up against Bernie, if his followers would go the Birther route, or Muslim, etc

Does Hillary take this abuse because she's a woman? I have never seen a candidate take so much shit from both sides.

Some of the concerns are warranted. She seems a bit Hawkish (no more than Obama), and she does have ties to the corporate world that makes you believe regulation will be limited.

It feels like since Dubya, we want to elect people based on can we be friends with them. Hillary may be a bitch, but she knows policy.

I just don't see the system crashing down under her. I see more incremental progress (especially with center to left justices) which will open the door towards the kind of progressive policies we want. It just takes time


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Old 06-09-2016, 11:56 AM   #679
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I think the majority of Americans would like to see a 3, maybe 4 party system. But maybe people here can help me to think about what it means for actual governing.



How would it work going into DC and working with Senate and Congress. Right now, nothing gets done with having around 50% support. Imagine going in with 33% or 25% support...

I think this is the biggest obstacle for a viable third or fourth party. Am I wrong? missing something?



I would love to have more choices. But I do feel like after a couple cycles people would say the same thing. 350 million Americans and we can only find these 3 losers!!! We will never be happy every time.

I've said this before, but the only way you're gonna get a multiparty system in the US is by changing from single member, winner-take-all districts, to a proportional representation system. It's the main obstacle preventing a multiparty system. However, our two major parties would never allow a PR system to be implemented because it would weaken the two major parties dramatically.


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Old 06-09-2016, 12:01 PM   #680
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Originally Posted by BEAL View Post
I actually don't really like Hillary (love Bill tho).

What gets me behind her is the absolute hatred thrown her way, and now it's coming from a side that she's on.

Obama took his lumps from the Right. I'm wondering if Obama was going up against Bernie, if his followers would go the Birther route, or Muslim, etc

Does Hillary take this abuse because she's a woman? I have never seen a candidate take so much shit from both sides.

Some of the concerns are warranted. She seems a bit Hawkish (no more than Obama), and she does have ties to the corporate world that makes you believe regulation will be limited.

It feels like since Dubya, we want to elect people based on can we be friends with them. Hillary may be a bitch, but she knows policy.

I just don't see the system crashing down under her. I see more incremental progress (especially with center to left justices) which will open the door towards the kind of progressive policies we want. It just takes time


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I support Hillary in part because I remember what she suffered in the '90s as First Lady. The Right was incensed that she DARE try to influence policy. They tried to get her to fit the mold of the archetypal first lady, who was the ultimate housewife. That's not who she ever was. I loved that she was able to have her own career after Bill served his two terms.

For a woman, she's a bit brash and that ALWAYS draws criticism. Again, I respect her a ton for what she's had to put up with as a candidate.
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Old 06-09-2016, 12:27 PM   #681
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I'm sorry, are you defending the Clinton Foundation and acting like it's RWNJ who are the only ones who take issue with it?
No, i completely expect it from RWNJ's. But for fellow liberals to use the - throw any shit at the wall and see what sticks, tactic toward Clinton is quite disappointing. I'm saying that this random, throw out an insinuation about the clinton foundation, and let the rumors swirl thing, is just stupid.

Is there credible evidence that Clinton made secret deals with people, as SOS, based on contributions to the foundation? No. just speculation.

It's the same tactic used over and over again against her.

This is a foundation that has saved hundreds of thousands of lives around the world, and bettered millions more.
It's Rated A, by CharityWatch - with 88% of funds going straight to help people.

So yeah, i think its a good thing. And I think until some actual evidence of some wrong-doing were to be presented, I believe she is professional enough to seperate her work as SOS, and her involvement with the charity.
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Old 06-09-2016, 12:32 PM   #682
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25 years?
Come on.
She wasn't the most admired woman in the world in 1991, or 1997 or anything like that.
Actually she was.

From Gallup:

Clinton Named Most Admired More Than Any Other Woman or Man

Clinton has been the most admired woman each of the last 14 years, and 20 times overall, occupying the top spot far longer than any other woman or man in Gallup's history of asking the most admired question. Since 1993, the year she was first named most admired woman, Clinton has stayed in the news as first lady, U.S. senator, secretary of state and a two-time presidential candidate.
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Old 06-09-2016, 01:17 PM   #683
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So what i get from this answer is that it would most likely lead to more compromise. Which you're right, is not always a bad thing. This is funny, because the people beating their chest for more parties, are the ones that are also beating their chest about NO compromise.
It doesn't quite work like that because you have to keep in mind whom you are compromising with. These are things to keep in mind in a multiparty system:

1. Typically you are compromising with "your own side" or possibly somebody centrist, not the other side of the aisle. For example, say the Dems split into mainstream (Hillary) and progressive (Bernie) and the GOP split into the mainstream (Jeb Bush/Rubio/Ryan, etc) and Tea Party (Cruz, possibly Trump though who the hell knows who his constituency is). Generally the left-leaning parties would come together to compromise as would the right leaning. If you have a 5th party with few seats, like the Greens or Libertarians, they may be kingmaker.

2. In the current system there is no need to compromise because every 2/4/6 years depending on the seat you have to run an election campaign. So digging in your heels is actually a way to save your own hide. In a multiparty system, a government can fall in the blink of an eye if they are uncompromising or trying to shove through an agenda that nobody else agrees with. So the majority party has a reason to compromise. And the other parties also have incentive to compromise because it gives them an opportunity to bring about an election on their terms, when they want it and when they think it would be the most advantageous to them.
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Old 06-09-2016, 01:19 PM   #684
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Originally Posted by womanfish View Post
Actually she was.

From Gallup:

Clinton Named Most Admired More Than Any Other Woman or Man

Clinton has been the most admired woman each of the last 14 years, and 20 times overall, occupying the top spot far longer than any other woman or man in Gallup's history of asking the most admired question. Since 1993, the year she was first named most admired woman, Clinton has stayed in the news as first lady, U.S. senator, secretary of state and a two-time presidential candidate.
So what you're saying is she's the female Bono. Adored and despised at the same time
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Old 06-09-2016, 01:20 PM   #685
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Originally Posted by womanfish View Post
Actually she was.

From Gallup:

Clinton Named Most Admired More Than Any Other Woman or Man

Clinton has been the most admired woman each of the last 14 years, and 20 times overall, occupying the top spot far longer than any other woman or man in Gallup's history of asking the most admired question. Since 1993, the year she was first named most admired woman, Clinton has stayed in the news as first lady, U.S. senator, secretary of state and a two-time presidential candidate.
And this was a world wide poll as you claim? Or is it just a US poll? Kind of a bit of a difference.
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Old 06-09-2016, 01:27 PM   #686
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And this was a world wide poll as you claim? Or is it just a US poll? Kind of a bit of a difference.
No, it's an American poll.

Also rather silly given that Trump came in #3 for most admired man (after Obama and the Pope).
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Old 06-09-2016, 01:32 PM   #687
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No, i completely expect it from RWNJ's. But for fellow liberals to use the - throw any shit at the wall and see what sticks, tactic toward Clinton is quite disappointing. I'm saying that this random, throw out an insinuation about the clinton foundation, and let the rumors swirl thing, is just stupid.

Yeah, it's annoying. Facts be damned with these people, they are of the same fabric as the far right; it doesn't matter the source if they can find a poll, rumor, meme, racist rhetoric, etc. as long as it's attacking Hillary it's fair game. That particular poster admitted it was just rumor but now that Bernie has lost he's stated it as fact twice.


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Old 06-09-2016, 01:37 PM   #688
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So what you're saying is she's the female Bono. Adored and despised at the same time
Amazing. For weeks, I've been thinking of posting about this. Clinton is very much the U2 of politics. Once more edgy, but always popular. Cares way too much about what people think and would be much better served to just relax and be herself.
And yes, loved by one group. Considered blah by another group of people, and hated by the rest.

Sanders is? Radiohead?
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Old 06-09-2016, 01:49 PM   #689
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Sanders is? Radiohead?

Very good, often vague, but extremely overrated.

Yeah, that sounds about right.


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Old 06-09-2016, 01:49 PM   #690
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Amazing. For weeks, I've been thinking of posting about this. Clinton is very much the U2 of politics. Once more edgy, but always popular. Cares way too much about what people think and would be much better served to just relax and be herself.
And yes, loved by one group. Considered blah by another group of people, and hated by the rest.

Sanders is? Radiohead?
Intriguing at first but then gets so far up his own ass that nobody gives a shit anymore, unless you do, in which case you REEEEEALLY give a shit?

I can see it.
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