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Old 06-08-2016, 10:09 PM   #661
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BEAL good.

Vlad bad


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Old 06-08-2016, 10:12 PM   #662
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BEAL is Hillary.

I'm the outsider yelling about the flaws of everything.
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Old 06-08-2016, 11:13 PM   #663
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Originally Posted by BigMacPhisto View Post
Would you say Clinton genuinely earned her money by giving speeches to the toxic cesspool that is Goldman Sachs or by giving favorable state department contracts to people that donated to the Clinton fund?
I don't to have to like everything she has done/does to consider her a good candidate in other ways

As for speeches to G-S someone I know in the speakers industry said that stuff that might be said between investment people or if you believe that Hillary was saying questionable things (by progressive standards) in a big private speech that tharprobably didn't happen, it would have been done one one, or in a small group.So they think as far as questionable stuff in the speech is probably not there. They also think HRC should release the speech.
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Old 06-08-2016, 11:24 PM   #664
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Vlad - too tired, lateish here to give an answer right now. I will think about it to give you a decent answer either tomnorow, or Fri, since i peruse this thread now everyday
or two. I have an application to get done by tomorrow .
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Old 06-09-2016, 01:52 AM   #665
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Just got an e-mail from Daily Kos with various Hillary & Bernie articles including top Bernie people encouraging unity, and stopping trump.
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Old 06-09-2016, 08:26 AM   #666
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I'm the outsider yelling about the flaws of everything.

And THAT is the answer.

But it would make a great album title.


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Old 06-09-2016, 08:35 AM   #667
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There are clear and obvious flaws with out system. I wish there was a viable third party candidate, or even more than three viable candidates. It's clear that there are deep rifts in the parties themselves between the hardcore conservatives and liberals and the more moderate candidates of the parties (and whatever Trump is). It's time to blow it up and rethink everything about how we nominate and elect a president.

That said, it's too important to have a rift over the election and nomination process now. The stakes are too high. Trump is an unmitigated disaster. He can not be allowed to win.

After November, then we can get back to fixing this. There's too much at stake now.
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Old 06-09-2016, 09:08 AM   #668
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There are clear and obvious flaws with out system. I wish there was a viable third party candidate, or even more than three viable candidates. It's clear that there are deep rifts in the parties themselves between the hardcore conservatives and liberals and the more moderate candidates of the parties (and whatever Trump is). It's time to blow it up and rethink everything about how we nominate and elect a president.

That said, it's too important to have a rift over the election and nomination process now. The stakes are too high. Trump is an unmitigated disaster. He can not be allowed to win.

After November, then we can get back to fixing this. There's too much at stake now.
I think the majority of Americans would like to see a 3, maybe 4 party system. But maybe people here can help me to think about what it means for actual governing.

How would it work going into DC and working with Senate and Congress. Right now, nothing gets done with having around 50% support. Imagine going in with 33% or 25% support...
I think this is the biggest obstacle for a viable third or fourth party. Am I wrong? missing something?

I would love to have more choices. But I do feel like after a couple cycles people would say the same thing. 350 million Americans and we can only find these 3 losers!!! We will never be happy every time.

And yes, Trump cannot become president. I don't think people actually realize just how damaging it could be.
You can't threaten N. Korea with a nuke one day and then take it back on Twitter the next day when you're president.
I truly think that its a possibility that he would react on the spot to something, and would take us down a path of no return.
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Old 06-09-2016, 09:32 AM   #669
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I think the majority of Americans would like to see a 3, maybe 4 party system. But maybe people here can help me to think about what it means for actual governing.

How would it work going into DC and working with Senate and Congress. Right now, nothing gets done with having around 50% support. Imagine going in with 33% or 25% support...
I think this is the biggest obstacle for a viable third or fourth party. Am I wrong? missing something?
Compromise. It's not a dirty word.


Yes, with a multi-party system not one party will (likely) have an absolute majority. So they can't get anything done on their own with less than 50% support. So you'll have to ask for support from one of the other parties. They might support your proposal right away, maybe they request changes to the proposal to have it acceptable to them. And maybe they ask you also support some of their proposals.
(Multi-party) Politics 101.
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Old 06-09-2016, 09:37 AM   #670
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Would you say Clinton genuinely earned her money by giving speeches to the toxic cesspool that is Goldman Sachs or by giving favorable state department contracts to people that donated to the Clinton fund?
I think this is the fundamental BS that gets peddled and just gobbled up by people that don't stop and think about it in context.

Hillary is the most recognized and admired woman in the world for 25 years. A leader of women's/human rights, first lady of Arkansas, First lady of US, 2 term senator of NY, presidential candidate, and Sec. of State.

ANY other person (man) with her background and credential would be paid the same thing to talk to outside groups. This is standard practice when leaving office. She made no speeches while she was in office. She got paid the same amounts to talk to NON financial entities as well. She was a private citizen, that was making large amounts of money because of how damn hard she worked over her whole life and career.
This may not sit well with Bernie who didn't do a damn thing until he was 40. But I want my daughter to have a role model of strong woman that the sky is the limit for her success.

So go on and think that her having an expensive jacket on, in some way makes her less able to help people and create change and programs to lift people out of poverty and to boost the middle class. Absolute Fox style deflection.

So people like Bill Gates or Buffet, or Kaiser, or Oprah, or Zuckerburg, or hell, Bono can't understand the plight of the less fortunate or help people because they live in multi million dollar mansions, or have private jets??

i don't begrudge anyone their success. Especially someone like Clinton that has worked her entire life to get it. Now Paris Hilton or others like her that get money handed to them? They are not a "success" they are rich.

I think what's more troubling is that Sanders makes 250k a year, and he doesn't have a million in the bank? Jane seems to be a walking finincial disaster, and we still haven't seen Sanders tax returns. There is something devastating in those. Something that would make the cultish masses cringe i would think.
Yet somehow he is propped up as a man of the people. I guess cause he can't handle his money well??

and ps. please don't state unfounded accusations about the Clinton foundation as fact. Again, fox style BS
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Old 06-09-2016, 09:47 AM   #671
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Compromise. It's not a dirty word.


Yes, with a multi-party system not one party will (likely) have an absolute majority. So they can't get anything done on their own with less than 50% support. So you'll have to ask for support from one of the other parties. They might support your proposal right away, maybe they request changes to the proposal to have it acceptable to them. And maybe they ask you also support some of their proposals.
(Multi-party) Politics 101.

So what i get from this answer is that it would most likely lead to more compromise. Which you're right, is not always a bad thing. This is funny, because the people beating their chest for more parties, are the ones that are also beating their chest about NO compromise.

Bernie supporters don't even want to vote for a liberal for president. Tea Partiers didn't want to vote for middle of the road Romney.

It's a joke to me. like i said. No one is always happy with their choices. Making one or two more choices won't change that.
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Old 06-09-2016, 10:03 AM   #672
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Hillary is the most recognized and admired woman in the world for 25 years. A leader of women's/human rights, first lady of Arkansas, First lady of US, 2 term senator of NY, presidential candidate, and Sec. of State.
Come on, I know you love Hillary, but you're going to have to provide a source (poll etc.) on this claim.

To claim her as a champion of human rights is equally as silly. I mean, really?
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Old 06-09-2016, 10:07 AM   #673
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Bernie supporters don't even want to vote for a liberal for president.
I would imagine a fairly large portion of Sanders supporters aren't really liberals, so that's hardly controversial.
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Old 06-09-2016, 10:49 AM   #674
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I would imagine a fairly large portion of Sanders supporters aren't really liberals, so that's hardly controversial.

very true. Although many that claim the mantle of "progressive" won't vote for her because she isn't "progressive" enough. That really makes zero sense.
Getting closer to progressive goals for the next 4 to 8 years, will only make it easier for the next liberal president to continue on and go further.
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Old 06-09-2016, 11:02 AM   #675
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I think this is the fundamental BS that gets peddled and just gobbled up by people that don't stop and think about it in context.

Hillary is the most recognized and admired woman in the world for 25 years.
25 years?
Come on.
She wasn't the most admired woman in the world in 1991, or 1997 or anything like that.
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