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Old 06-08-2016, 02:18 PM   #631
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I think looking for a savior is going to lead towards disappointment.

Time to move on to the general election.
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Old 06-08-2016, 02:19 PM   #632
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Especially when she's giving speeches on inequality while wearing $12,495 Armani jackets.
I always use meme's to inform me on the issues.

So only poor people can speak about income equality. Good to know.
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Old 06-08-2016, 02:19 PM   #633
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And that's where you're completely wrong. Nobody, and I mean nobody, on the far left considers Clinton a progressive.

and, really, the members of "the far left" are the best judges of these sort of things.
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Old 06-08-2016, 02:24 PM   #634
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The Democratic party hero worship in this thread is akin to the sort of enthusiasm I see from Disney fanatics.
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But I'm preaching to the wrong crowd here. Clinton with her $12,000 jackets is really the savior when it comes to income inequality. Let's let the same Capitalistic mess that's caused all this try and fix everything for us.
You talking about hero worship and saviors is like a Trump minion accusing someone of racism.
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Old 06-08-2016, 02:36 PM   #635
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Here's what I'm hoping from with the Bernie thing this election (and to some extent, Trump).

Start with Trump. He has shown that religion doesn't really take center stage anymore. He beat guys like Cruz, who's as fucking wacko as they come on this subject, and others like Ass Juice and Rubio. So the hope is that future candidates can go more towards the middle, not pander to a dying voter base. Not saying we'll have atheists taking center stage (I wish ), but more focus on policy, and less on a constant reinforcement of belief.

With Sanders, I'm hoping that he's given a gameplan for future progressive candidates. Learn from what Bernie did, take the positives, and avoid the mistakes. Eventually get more people like a Warren. You'll see more change with building a base of like minded people, than trying to change it all by yourself (Bernie)
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Old 06-08-2016, 02:46 PM   #636
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The fact that Hillary is pandering to the open border crowd should be enough for any reasonable person to consider not voting for her. Any person that does not put the security of the country first is not fit to be president.

The people that are smuggled are often exploited and treated worse than slaves.

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California sees surge in Chinese illegally crossing border from Mexico

The number of Chinese immigrants illegally crossing the Mexican border into California has skyrocketed in recent years, the result of a lucrative smuggling industry, mass migration from China and a diversifying pool of migrants settling in the United States.

Between October and May, the first eight months of the fiscal year, Border Patrol agents in the San Diego sector apprehended an estimated 663 Chinese nationals, compared with 48 in the entire previous fiscal year and eight in the year before that, according to data provided by U.S. Customs and Border Protection.

Before then, “we just weren’t getting [Chinese nationals],” said Wendi Lee, a spokeswoman for the Border Patrol.

Lee said criminal organizations involved in smuggling maximize their profits by transporting Chinese immigrants, often charging premiums to get them across the border.

“We’re talking anywhere from $50,000 to $70,000 per person,” Lee said. “The farther you travel ... the more arrangements these criminal organizations have to make, the more expensive it will get.”

China has become one of the world’s leading sources of immigrants, according to a February report by the Migration Policy Institute.

“High-skilled and high-value emigration from China is rising fast, while low-skilled and unskilled emigration is stagnant — a divergence that has been widening since the late 2000s. The emigration rate of China’s highly educated population is now five times as high as the country’s overall rate," the report said. "China’s wealthy elites and growing middle class are increasingly pursuing educational and work opportunities overseas for themselves and their families, facilitated by their rising incomes."

Many of the foreign students now enrolled in U.S. universities hail from China, a result of their country’s emerging economy and growing middle class.

The Chinese account for the fifth-largest population of immigrants in the U.S. illegally, according to an October report by the Migration Policy Institute. An estimated 285,000 resided in the country in 2013.

Non-Mexican immigrants apprehended by the Border Patrol generally are turned over to the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s Office of Enforcement and Removal Operations, which is responsible for determining whether they will be detained or released while their cases are reviewed by an immigration court, according to ICE.

“ICE makes custody determinations on a case-by-case basis, taking into account all aspects of the person’s circumstances, including whether the individual represents a threat to public safety or is a possible flight risk,” the agency said.

Some request political asylum. Others ask to return to their home countries.

Xiao Wang, a lecturer of Chinese studies at UC San Diego, said economic opportunity is a common factor in Chinese immigration. Small-business owners travel to sell products — perfumes, electronics and cosmetics — in the United States.

“It’s people who are trying to make money,” Wang said. “I think this is happening more and more."

But Muzaffar Chishti, director of the Migration Policy Institute's office at New York University's School of Law, said it’s important to understand the bigger picture.

“It’s tempting to say that this is a dramatic rise. In the scheme of things, it’s not a dramatic rise,” he said. “[China] is the world’s largest country.” In that sense, he said, the recent increase in border crossings represents "a drop in the bucket."

Some people who cross the border illegally become victims of human trafficking, Lee said.

Last month, authorities discovered 12 such immigrants in the attic of a home in San Diego’s City Heights neighborhood. They were being held without food, with very little water and with no access to a restroom, Lee said. Five of them were Chinese.

Two suspected smugglers were taken into custody, along with all of the immigrants.

tatiana.sanchez@sduniontribune.com

Sanchez writes for the San Diego-Union Tribune.
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Old 06-08-2016, 03:06 PM   #637
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The fact that Hillary is pandering to the open border crowd should be enough for any reasonable person to consider not voting for her. Any person that does not put the security of the country first is not fit to be president.

The people that are smuggled are often exploited and treated worse than slaves.
Well you sold me.

We should build a wall. A huge wall. A tremendous wall. And get the Canadians to pay for it.

Wait, what? You only want a wall where the brown people sneak in? Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

My bad.
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Old 06-08-2016, 03:08 PM   #638
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The AP calling it early for Clinton thing ...

I can get why that was obnoxious and poor judgement. But the people saying it was the AP in collusion with Clinton?

Come on. If anything, it would have riled up the Bernie base to get out and vote, and would have caused some of her supporters to stay home. The idea that it was her idea is ridiculous.

(A general comment, I saw people blaming her on the interwebs, not necessarily here.)
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Old 06-08-2016, 03:20 PM   #639
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The fact that Hillary is pandering to the open border crowd should be enough for any reasonable person to consider not voting for her. Any person that does not put the security of the country first is not fit to be president.
Clinton Releases Plan to Dissolve U.S. Border Within 100 Days - Breitbart

It's true, just look at her plan to dissolve the border. Breitbart's the tru sauce.
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Old 06-08-2016, 03:25 PM   #640
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and, really, the members of "the far left" are the best judges of these sort of things.
Indeed they are. Because actual progressives believe in actual progressive politics. Clinton deciding that she's a progressive suddenly near the end of 2015 doesn't make her one. Her disappointing track record says otherwise.

Sanders may have tried to co-opt a party he never belonged to, but Clinton has tried to co-opt a part of the political sphere she has never belonged to...at least Bernie can fit in the all encompassing banner of "Democrat" under our two-party system. Clinton's attempts to be a liberal are exceedingly hollow.
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Old 06-08-2016, 03:28 PM   #641
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Clinton's illegal immigration policies are atrocious, but for me it's the whole sending back kids from Central America trying to come here so they don't get murdered that gets to me. She doesn't mind propping up dictators or sending children back to their likely deaths, but hey, Manifest Destiny.
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Old 06-08-2016, 03:30 PM   #642
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As for Irvine's article, nothing about it really says much other than the fact that Bernie was involved in a heated election battle just like any other. Also, the bit at the end about Feingold is an absolute lie as I received an e-mail a couple weeks ago from the Sanders campaign about donating money to him.

To get annoyed at Bernie's heated "burn them all" mentality or the tactics used by his campaign is pretty sad when Clinton herself is guilty of exactly the same (and in many regards, far worse) with her 2008 campaign. Somehow Sanders lobbing a valid political point of attack on Clinton or the DNC is worse than race baiting?

Do I have to bring up that last time Clinton ran her own campaign into millions of dollars of debt to serve her own ego trip that the DNC ended up paying for? So much for helping the party.

I guess the fact that she won this time suddenly makes her a voice of reason, even though the calculated persona hasn't changed.
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Old 06-08-2016, 03:42 PM   #643
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Indeed they are. Because actual progressives believe in actual progressive politics. Clinton deciding that she's a progressive suddenly near the end of 2015 doesn't make her one. Her disappointing track record says otherwise.



Sanders may have tried to co-opt a party he never belonged to, but Clinton has tried to co-opt a part of the political sphere she has never belonged to...at least Bernie can fit in the all encompassing banner of "Democrat" under our two-party system. Clinton's attempts to be a liberal are exceedingly hollow.



The point is made.
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Old 06-08-2016, 03:42 PM   #644
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Start with Trump. He has shown that religion doesn't really take center stage anymore. He beat guys like Cruz, who's as fucking wacko as they come on this subject, and others like Ass Juice and Rubio. So the hope is that future candidates can go more towards the middle, not pander to a dying voter base. Not saying we'll have atheists taking center stage (I wish ), but more focus on policy, and less on a constant reinforcement of belief.
Religion is taking a continual back seat in politics as evidenced by Cruz's own supporters desperately wanting him to tone it down. But the Republicans are only going to stay on the far right because that's what their supporters ultimately want. They can lose every four years because of the built-in demographic disadvantage and there's nothing about them that will change because they actually believed they could win with people like Romney or Trump. Once it becomes apparent that they're going to start regularly losing Presidential elections by 60-40 margins, they'll be only more likely to keep up the conservative purity test as they'll figure it a lost cause to try winning. Better to have a far-right Presidential candidate and have the House/Senate members continue to lean in that direction than move to the rapidly diminishing center for no reason. They love the obstruction.

Democratic party will surely shift to the left. These Sanders voters will soon be joined by much younger (and probably more liberal) compatriots over the next couple decades while almost all of Clinton's most vocal supporters will be dead in the ground. Those wanting to have extremely high office plans in their future, might want to try and take the most liberal route they can in their political journeys...

On the other hand, I think the Democrats are actually the worst of the bunch when it comes to dynasties. If Clinton picks somebody that's not that old, that person will practically be guaranteed to be the nominee in 2024, regardless of their platform. Name recognition and previously holding a higher office works like a charm with this group. Doesn't help that the black vote is now a firm quarter of the primary electorate and whomever they line up behind is pretty much guaranteed to be the nominee. No, their outsized influence isn't the problem. It's the lining up behind the same candidate. Senator Cory Booker would stand a reasonable chance in 2024 (if he's not Clinton's pick to begin with) if he can start with 25% of the vote right out of the gate.

To me, it's like the most anti-Democratic thing imaginable to basically let Clinton pick our next President into 2032 and so forth, but I digress...here's hoping the liberal purity test soon becomes everything and previous job holdings will be irrelevant compared to what you actually stand for.

Otherwise, if a progressive candidate like Bernie doesn't stand a chance, then I never have any interest in Democratic primaries whatsoever. And there's millions like me that feel the same.
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Old 06-08-2016, 03:58 PM   #645
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My question to you, BMP, is whether you felt this way before the primaries, or if you've just fallen in line behind the Sanders campaign?
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