2016 US Presidential Election Pt. IV

[deep]

I have been saying the guy is W light for some time now.
Welcome to reality, everyone.

 

[Oregoropa]

Rubio was brutal last night. Seriously, this is the best hope? He's like one of those old fashioned dolls where you'd pull a string and they'd say the same phrase over and over again.

Trump will be the biggest beneficiary. With Rubio knocked down a number of notches he can lock up NH, win SC. Heavy favorite in NV and Florida. Cruz was tailor-made for Iowa but sacrificed whatever likeability he had to take it. Can't see him surging in SC.


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[Headache in a Suitcase]

Trump and Carson standing there side stage like a couple of boobs while none of the other candidates bothered to give them the heads up that their names were called was just the tits.

 

[anitram]

Trump and Carson standing there side stage like a couple of boobs while none of the other candidates bothered to give them the heads up that their names were called was just the tits.

Highlight of the debate really.

Can one of you Americans explain to me why Ted Cruz doesn't poll well in SC? Aren't there loads of evangelical-type voters down that way?

 

[Vlad n U 2]

And young people have traveled and studied abroad in socialist democratic countries like Norway and Denmark and even Germany and France and they admire how these countries are able to give their citizens high quality universal health care, freedom from gun violence, free university education, quality universal day care, and an overall high quality of life.

Yeah, no ... not at all.

Um, iron now thinks your candidate is a socialist...


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[Oregoropa]

Trump and Carson standing there side stage like a couple of boobs while none of the other candidates bothered to give them the heads up that their names were called was just the tits.

Carson didn't hear his name called because of the applause for Christie. Thought it was a class move for Trump to stand with him so he didn't look like the only jackass. It was funny as shit.

Speaking of funny
https://youtu.be/nn4tP7ogWIA


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[prbiker15]

https://youtu.be/nn4tP7ogWIA

I want a full season of this.

 

[cobl04]

Neurologist explains why it’s hard to look at Ted Cruz’s creepy ‘unsettling’ face

 

[Axver]

Yeah, no ... not at all.

What are you talking about? The first two are clearly social democracies.

I know you're pedantic about what qualifies as socialism or communism, but really now Vlad.

 

[Kieran McConville]

I think his beef was that Irvine didn't call them social democracies, he described them as socialist states of some description. And yeah, bit of a difference.

 

[Irvine511]

Yeah, no ... not at all.

?

What are you disputing?

 

[Irvine511]

I think his beef was that Irvine didn't call them social democracies, he described them as socialist states of some description. And yeah, bit of a difference.

Hence, pedantic.

Sorry if I mixed around socialist democracies with democratic socialism.

The main point, that I'll reiterate, is that "socialism" doesn't have a knee-jerk reaction for the young as IH seemed to imply that it does amongst the olds.

Vlad is a mystery to me. Vague comments and little follow up.

 

[Axver]

I think his beef was that Irvine didn't call them social democracies, he described them as socialist states of some description. And yeah, bit of a difference.

"Socialist democratic countries" clearly meant "social democratic countries" though, so Vlad's reply still seems like a bit of a leap. Unless he really does think no government is ideologically pure enough for him.

 

[cobl04]

I've always felt that Vlad's idea of a good government has never and will never exist.

 

[Kieran McConville]

Nothing is more important than ideological purity, guys. Just ask Ted Cruz. On second thoughts, don't.

 

[digitize]

Vlad is a mystery to me. Vague comments and little follow up.

If my understanding is correct, Vlad is a full Marxist (I believe he's said as much in the past - not trying to use it as a stupid pejorative). I would love to hear more from him on it. I tend to really respect and appreciate listening to the Marxists I know IRL.


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[Vlad n U 2]

What are you talking about? The first two are clearly social democracies.

I know you're pedantic about what qualifies as socialism or communism, but really now Vlad.

That's what I meant, social democracies, but even then in recent decades the Scandinavian states were not as they once were.

I think his beef was that Irvine didn't call them social democracies, he described them as socialist states of some description. And yeah, bit of a difference.

Pretty much exactly what I was getting at. There's a fairly noticeable difference, yeah.

Hence, pedantic.

Sorry if I mixed around socialist democracies with democratic socialism.

The main point, that I'll reiterate, is that "socialism" doesn't have a knee-jerk reaction for the young as IH seemed to imply that it does amongst the olds.

Vlad is a mystery to me. Vague comments and little follow up.

I don't think it's necessarily that pedantic, and I can still understand your confusion to a point, but this is really one of those things where one word/term can make a significant difference.

I agree that the term does not carry as much fear anymore.

I'm not really that mysterious either, it's not particularly easy to get into the US political discussions on this board at that times, which is why it may seem that I'm drifting in-and-out with regularity.

"Socialist democratic countries" clearly meant "social democratic countries" though, so Vlad's reply still seems like a bit of a leap. Unless he really does think no government is ideologically pure enough for him.

I'm not sure why you're pushing this! This has nothing to do with that I consider ideologically pure or not.

Anyway, apologies to Irvine for my pedantry - all I wanted to suggest in the end is that the change of one word

I've always felt that Vlad's idea of a good government has never and will never exist.

You've said this on multiple occasions but I'm not sure if you remember when I have discussed this.

 

[Vlad n U 2]

If my understanding is correct, Vlad is a full Marxist (I believe he's said as much in the past - not trying to use it as a stupid pejorative). I would love to hear more from him on it. I tend to really respect and appreciate listening to the Marxists I know IRL.


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I'm not sure if I've ever properly stated my tendency in the past, I don't try to pigeon hole myself into a particular tendency (of which there are numerous).

I wouldn't mind seeing what a half Marxist would entail though.

 

[digitize]

I wouldn't mind seeing what a half Marxist would entail though.

Fair enough.


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[Axver]

I'm not sure why you're pushing this! This has nothing to do with that I consider ideologically pure or not.

It does seem to me that you place a high premium on a certain kind of ideological purity though. It's hard for somebody to be described as a socialist or communist without you jumping in to suggest that they aren't - or in general to deride the progressive or left-wing credentials of somebody (often on the basis of specific grievances rather than a general critique, the whole "no true Scotsman would do X" fallacy).

I think sometimes you're doing a service. There is a tendency - and, without trying to generalise too much, a tendency especially from right-wing Americans - to describe as socialists or communists individuals who clearly are not. It's good to have an antidote to that. But it's possible to take that too far, and I thought taking on Irvine's post is a case in point. You're both making the same point, broadly speaking, to IH!

 

[Axver]

I'm not sure if I've ever properly stated my tendency in the past, I don't try to pigeon hole myself into a particular tendency (of which there are numerous).

Any sensible Marxist is a Trot just so they can get the best fashion.

(I've probably mentioned in the past studying undergrad with a guy who actually dressed like Trotsky every day.)

 

[Mack_Again]

oh wow this thread is becoming more about arguments about socialism time has changed.

 

[Vlad n U 2]

It does seem to me that you place a high premium on a certain kind of ideological purity though. It's hard for somebody to be described as a socialist or communist without you jumping in to suggest that they aren't - or in general to deride the progressive or left-wing credentials of somebody (often on the basis of specific grievances rather than a general critique, the whole "no true Scotsman would do X" fallacy).

I think sometimes you're doing a service. There is a tendency - and, without trying to generalise too much, a tendency especially from right-wing Americans - to describe as socialists or communists individuals who clearly are not. It's good to have an antidote to that. But it's possible to take that too far, and I thought taking on Irvine's post is a case in point. You're both making the same point, broadly speaking, to IH!

I understand your point of view, though even then I'm comparatively mild and accepting on this point compared to others I know. I feel more positively than negatively towards a Jeremy Corbyn, for example, and for all of my many criticisms of Bernie Sanders I think that his presence is a promising one for the US.

Any sensible Marxist is a Trot just so they can get the best fashion.

(I've probably mentioned in the past studying undergrad with a guy who actually dressed like Trotsky every day.)

Did he carry around newspapers often/try to sell them to you?

 

[Vlad n U 2]

oh wow this thread is becoming more about arguments about socialism time has changed.

Three cheers for iron horse!

 

[Kieran McConville]

I'd rather Vlad contributed a bit more, for all his human failings, compared to some of the dreck in these threads.

 

[Mack_Again]

am I included in those drecks?

 

[Kieran McConville]

No, you aren't.

 

[Irvine511]

I'd rather Vlad contributed a bit more, for all his human failings, compared to some of the dreck in these threads.

I agree.

 

[deep]

if we are evaluating contributors and participants to this FYM forum I would hardly put Vlad on a list that includes the term "human failings".

 

[Vlad n U 2]

Enjoying this 'poster evaluation' discourse.