2016 US Presidential Election Pt. IV

[corianderstem]

Wait, no. What? No. Really?

 

[Irvine511]

Sarah Palin follows up her endorsment of Trump by blaming Obama for her son assaulting his wife.

it's also his fault that her abstinence-promoting daughter has been twice impregnated out of wedlock.

 

[Mack_Again]

it's also his fault that her abstinence-promoting daughter has been twice impregnated out of wedlock.

that's some top-notch irony right there.

 

[anitram]

Rand Paul just referred to Trump as Gollum on CNN. That is the level of discourse we're at.

 

[Irvine511]

that's some top-notch irony right there.

ironic, but then, abstinence-only education often leads to unwanted pregnancy.

 

[deep]

I remember that prediction. Still doesn't seem likely to happen.

I think this notion that Clinton will be in prison and Biden is waiting on the sidelines only exists in the right wing blogs. It's a right wing wet dream, they've been fantasizing about it since Bill. In the real world no one is worrying about this.


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she does not have to be in prison, but only in enough trouble to be unelectable
and we are much closer to that point then when many of my GOP friends were running in circles raising their hands and shouting. Benghazzi, Benghazzi, emails, emails, bengazzi, white water, bengazzi, Vince Foster, bengazzi, emails

well, after all the crying wolf,

emails could really be the wolf

Report: Hillary Clinton server contained highly classified intel - CNNPolitics.com

 

[deep]

I put up the states that dems always win in presidential elections, (the last few cycles anyways.

well, I can see a few that Trump could flip, and not any that Cruz could flip, unless Bernie got the nomination, then the Dem ship sinks to the bottom of the ocean

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

 

[BVS]

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[DaveC]

Highlights of Sarah Palin's Endorsement Speech

 

[bobsaget77]

I don't understand how this Sarah Palin thing is a positive for Trump. She's a clueless buffoon and a terrible representation for Conservatives.


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[cobl04]

Watching Sarah Palin's endorsement.

Maybe I'll come off smug here but fuck me it must be such an insult to any American with half a brain that she speaks like this. It is appealing to the lowest common denominator. It's hard to watch and not believe it's satire. She's one of the very few people in politics who you really can't take the piss of in a funny way because she's already such a caricature.

"Kick ISIS' ass!" That's the most "American" thing I've ever heard.

 

[BVS]

I don't understand how this Sarah Palin thing is a positive for Trump. She's a clueless buffoon and a terrible representation for Conservatives.


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This brings me hope... for you. But the truth is she's still an icon for the culture of ignorance crowd.

How would a young conservative like yourself change this? If you don't want to see your party(or the right) die, what would you do? I'm honestly curious. It's something I've been trying to figure out for a while; how do the true libertarians or conservatives justify this candidate, or anyone being presented?


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[Mack_Again]

Watching Sarah Palin's endorsement.

Maybe I'll come off smug here but fuck me it must be such an insult to any American with half a brain that she speaks like this. It is appealing to the lowest common denominator. It's hard to watch and not believe it's satire. She's one of the very few people in politics who you really can't take the piss of in a funny way because she's already such a caricature.

"Kick ISIS' ass!" That's the most "American" thing I've ever heard.

But you're in Australia or somewhere, right? you don't have to torture yourself like that.

 

[digitize]

Watching Sarah Palin's endorsement.



Maybe I'll come off smug here but fuck me it must be such an insult to any American with half a brain that she speaks like this. It is appealing to the lowest common denominator. It's hard to watch and not believe it's satire. She's one of the very few people in politics who you really can't take the piss of in a funny way because she's already such a caricature.



"Kick ISIS' ass!" That's the most "American" thing I've ever heard.

Reminds me of this beauty:




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[bobsaget77]

This brings me hope... for you. But the truth is she's still an icon for the culture of ignorance crowd.

How would a young conservative like yourself change this? If you don't want to see your party(or the right) die, what would you do? I'm honestly curious. It's something I've been trying to figure out for a while; how do the true libertarians or conservatives justify this candidate, or anyone being presented?


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The Republican Party needs to stop living in the past and start creating a future. It needs a massive reform and not in a Ted Cruz way. They want to take back the government in a "Reagan Conservative" way. That's the problem. Reagan wasn't even a "principled Reagan conservative" by today's standards. Stop modeling off the 80's and try to create your own legacy. I'm so sick and tired of this Reagan pandering. It doesn't excite young voters like myself.
I want to see someone who is serious about cutting government spending without giving poor people the middle finger and in a true, principled way. Trump, Cruz, etc keep talking about the debt. Yet they're willing to spend trillions on the military and cut taxes at the same time. It just doesn't work that way. I'm all for cutting taxes, but real spending cuts have to be made. We don't need to be involved in every war on earth.
We need a massive education reform and schooling needs to be put back into the hands of the parents. Incentivize more private schools by offering easily accessible vouchers based on income levels. The goal should be to progressively decrease dependence on Public schools and instead create a market for private schools. Parents can have control of what their kids learn. If they want to send their child to a Jewish school, an art school, a Muslim school, a Christian school, a music school, etc. that should be encouraged and affordable. A single mother of three shouldn't have to worry about the cost of her children's education, but still able to have control over what they learn. Diversity and creative thinking is what makes America great! If everyone is learning the same basic curriculum, then everyone is going to think and act the same. Progress of future generations will be stalled. Look at the state of our country today. So much gridlock and a two party system that doesn't seem like it will ever change. That's largely due to our education system IMO. Not enough outside the box and creative thinkers who are willing to challenge both what they agree with and what they disagree with. Too many blind sheep who model their beliefs off of what others believe. Hence, my major issues with "Reagan conservatism". People model their beliefs off of Reagan and people who tout themselves as his followers instead of having ideas of their own. Both sides do this.
There's a lot of other issues that needed to be better assessed such as prison reform, immigration, etc. This whole "if we build a wall, illegal immigration will stop" BS is total non sense. They can build a wall up to the clouds and they'll still come over. They have an enormous, comprehensive system of tunnels and other outlets. We need to make it easier, quicker and more affordable for immigrants to become citizens. The system is broken.
I felt like Rand Paul was doing a great job of being a true outsider who wanted reform. But sadly, he seems to have gotten desperate and went the route of sucking up to the demographics instead of standing for what he believes in. Quite sad.
I can't believe people seriously fall for this Trump-Evangelical BS. It's so blatantly pandering and insincere that it's insulting. The Cruz NYC comment cost me any shot of voting for him in the primaries. He claims to be an outsider who won't say whatever it takes to be elected, yet clearly and publicly made a statement pandering to Iowa voters because his staff thought it was a good idea. He knew right away that he made a very stupid mistake if you look at his response to Trump. Once again, a candidate who betrays their values for votes.
If I had to vote today, I would vote for Rubio. I agree with his immigration policy and I hope he stays firm in his outsider stance on that. Time will tell. I have concerns about how he would balance a budget with as much military spending he's promising, but no one besides Paul and Kasich are serious about balancing a budget. I hope to see a Rubio/Paul or Rubio/Kasich ticket.
The system is going to have to go through a serious crash before anything gets done. I think it is inevitable because neither side is interested in the better good for the nation. After we crumble, our generation or the next will be responsible for fixing it. I have hope that one day we won't have two sides that are so separate and selfish. The people who have the power now are on borrowed time.

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[nbelcik]

The goal should be to progressively decrease dependence on Public schools and instead create a market for private schools.

This is awful idea for many reasons that I don't have time to elaborate now, I'll get to it soon though. Basically you'd be further widening the education gap between rich and poor Americans. The rich would be able to afford better schools and poor Americans wouldn't. Even with a voucher system. We need to work on improving our public education system because that benefits all Americans, not just rich ones.


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[Headache in a Suitcase]

This is really the best we've got? On both sides of the aisle?

Fuck, we're doomed.

 

[martha]

This is awful idea for many reasons that I don't have time to elaborate now, I'll get to it soon though. Basically you'd be further widening the education gap between rich and poor Americans. The rich would be able to afford better schools and poor Americans wouldn't. Even with a voucher system. We need to work on improving our public education system because that benefits all Americans, not just rich ones.


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Duh. That's why it's a Republican goal.


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[anitram]

schooling needs to be put back into the hands of the parents.

Seriously, this is a thing?

Has schooling been "in the hands of the parents" historically? Because parents are experts at educating children?

 

[bobsaget77]

Seriously, this is a thing?



Has schooling been "in the hands of the parents" historically? Because parents are experts at educating children?

Yes. Parents should have control over what their kids learn, not the government.


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[martha]

Yeah. That'll work.

Each individual parent? A collective of parents making decisions? A parent with different ideas than you? A parent who thinks prayer to Mecca five times a day is the right thing to do? A parent who thinks science is all false?

How does this fantasy work?


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[Irvine511]

Yeah. That'll work.

Each individual parent? A collective of parents making decisions? A parent with different ideas than you? A parent who thinks prayer to Mecca five times a day is the right thing to do? A parent who thinks science is all false?

How does this fantasy work?


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martha, these questions aren't simplistic, monosyllabic sloganeering. how on earth will anyone understand it?

 

[BVS]

The Republican Party needs to stop living in the past and start creating a future. It needs a massive reform and not in a Ted Cruz way. They want to take back the government in a "Reagan Conservative" way. That's the problem. Reagan wasn't even a "principled Reagan conservative" by today's standards. Stop modeling off the 80's and try to create your own legacy. I'm so sick and tired of this Reagan pandering. It doesn't excite young voters like myself.
I want to see someone who is serious about cutting government spending without giving poor people the middle finger and in a true, principled way. Trump, Cruz, etc keep talking about the debt. Yet they're willing to spend trillions on the military and cut taxes at the same time. It just doesn't work that way. I'm all for cutting taxes, but real spending cuts have to be made. We don't need to be involved in every war on earth.
We need a massive education reform and schooling needs to be put back into the hands of the parents. Incentivize more private schools by offering easily accessible vouchers based on income levels. The goal should be to progressively decrease dependence on Public schools and instead create a market for private schools. Parents can have control of what their kids learn. If they want to send their child to a Jewish school, an art school, a Muslim school, a Christian school, a music school, etc. that should be encouraged and affordable. A single mother of three shouldn't have to worry about the cost of her children's education, but still able to have control over what they learn. Diversity and creative thinking is what makes America great! If everyone is learning the same basic curriculum, then everyone is going to think and act the same. Progress of future generations will be stalled. Look at the state of our country today. So much gridlock and a two party system that doesn't seem like it will ever change. That's largely due to our education system IMO. Not enough outside the box and creative thinkers who are willing to challenge both what they agree with and what they disagree with. Too many blind sheep who model their beliefs off of what others believe. Hence, my major issues with "Reagan conservatism". People model their beliefs off of Reagan and people who tout themselves as his followers instead of having ideas of their own. Both sides do this.
There's a lot of other issues that needed to be better assessed such as prison reform, immigration, etc. This whole "if we build a wall, illegal immigration will stop" BS is total non sense. They can build a wall up to the clouds and they'll still come over. They have an enormous, comprehensive system of tunnels and other outlets. We need to make it easier, quicker and more affordable for immigrants to become citizens. The system is broken.
I felt like Rand Paul was doing a great job of being a true outsider who wanted reform. But sadly, he seems to have gotten desperate and went the route of sucking up to the demographics instead of standing for what he believes in. Quite sad.
I can't believe people seriously fall for this Trump-Evangelical BS. It's so blatantly pandering and insincere that it's insulting. The Cruz NYC comment cost me any shot of voting for him in the primaries. He claims to be an outsider who won't say whatever it takes to be elected, yet clearly and publicly made a statement pandering to Iowa voters because his staff thought it was a good idea. He knew right away that he made a very stupid mistake if you look at his response to Trump. Once again, a candidate who betrays their values for votes.
If I had to vote today, I would vote for Rubio. I agree with his immigration policy and I hope he stays firm in his outsider stance on that. Time will tell. I have concerns about how he would balance a budget with as much military spending he's promising, but no one besides Paul and Kasich are serious about balancing a budget. I hope to see a Rubio/Paul or Rubio/Kasich ticket.
The system is going to have to go through a serious crash before anything gets done. I think it is inevitable because neither side is interested in the better good for the nation. After we crumble, our generation or the next will be responsible for fixing it. I have hope that one day we won't have two sides that are so separate and selfish. The people who have the power now are on borrowed time.

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Thank you for the thought out response. For the most part I agree with much of what you're saying, although I believe you're going to have to give your education stance a little more thought. But another time another thread...


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[bobsaget77]

Yeah. That'll work.

Each individual parent? A collective of parents making decisions? A parent with different ideas than you? A parent who thinks prayer to Mecca five times a day is the right thing to do? A parent who thinks science is all false?

How does this fantasy work?


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Read my post. I'm not saying everyone should be homeschooled. I'm saying that parents should have more control of where they send their kids to learn. If they want to send their children to a school where they pray to Mecca 5 times a day and learns Arabic, etc. That's fine with me. In fact, it should be encouraged.
If a school specializes in history and language that's great too. They'll still learn the basics of math, english, grammer, vocab, etc. But schools can put a bigger focus on certain aspects of education. It will lead to specialization of schools and a lesser dependence on college. This will drive college tuition down.
We need to progressively encourage the growth of private schools and then we sell off all the assets of the public school system. The good teachers will get good jobs. Teachers will have the leverage because the best can choose where they want to go. If you're a bad teacher, there's a good chance you won't get a good job.
Parents should choose where their kids go to school. I don't want to see a generation of robot thinkers. We need diversity of thought and belief.


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[bobsaget77]

Thank you for the thought out response. For the most part I agree with much of what you're saying, although I believe you're going to have to give your education stance a little more thought. But another time another thread...


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I'm still working through the kinks on my education stance, but the system needs reform. I don't think pumping money back into the public school system is the answer.


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[nbelcik]

Read my post. I'm not saying everyone should be homeschooled. I'm saying that parents should have more control of where they send their kids to learn. If they want to send their children to a school where they pray to Mecca 5 times a day and learns Arabic, etc. That's fine with me. In fact, it should be encouraged.
If a school specializes in history and language that's great too. They'll still learn the basics of math, english, grammer, vocab, etc. But schools can put a bigger focus on certain aspects of education. It will lead to specialization of schools and a lesser dependence on college. This will drive college tuition down.
We need to progressively encourage the growth of private schools and then we sell off all the assets of the public school system. The good teachers will get good jobs. Teachers will have the leverage because the best can choose where they want to go. If you're a bad teacher, there's a good chance you won't get a good job.
Parents should choose where their kids go to school. I don't want to see a generation of robot thinkers. We need diversity of thought and belief.


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But do you understand that taxpayer money going to religious schools is a violation of the First Amendment?

And that rich parents can afford better schools and poor children will be left behind?

And that most educators say that specialization early in a child's educational career isn't good?

And that privatization is not good for an educational system? Look at charter schools, the only reason why it appears that they do better on test scores is because they're able to get rid of poor performing students and pick higher achieving kids. Would poor performing students simply be kicked out of schools because those schools are afraid of the kids dragging down their test scores?


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[anitram]

The good teachers will get good jobs. Teachers will have the leverage because the best can choose where they want to go.

This is really la-la land thinking.

The schools that have the most money and pay the most (i.e. those attended by the ultra wealthy) will attract the most educated/specialized teachers. What teacher would PREFER going to a school that pays 25% as much, has a high proportion of kids who don't speak English and is in an inner city? In other words, the poor kids will get crappy facilities, teachers who either don't want to be there or can't get employed anywhere else, and will continue to lag behind.

And how do you propose that all kids be equally prepared for college entrance exams and college generally if there are no public standards set?

 

[BVS]

I'm still working through the kinks on my education stance, but the system needs reform. I don't think pumping money back into the public school system is the answer.


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Yes it does. And specialized schools are good in theory, but how many 14 year olds truly know what they want to do with the rest of their lives?

My problem with your stance is that you're getting close to removing standardization; which leaves some dangerous holes. One can start teaching that the earth is only 2,000* years old, or that slavery wasn't that bad because slaves were treated like family.


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[Oregoropa]

It's been a tenet of conservative thought that Education works best in a Local > State > Federal pyramid.

I like Bobs ideas on re-thinking education. Right now teachers are straddled teaching to the standardized State or National tests rather than fostering an engaging classroom experience.

We also need to embrace tablet technology and shed the textbook cartel. Lord knows we don't want anymore schoolbook depositories. Lugging around all those books killed my back in HS.


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