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Old 01-21-2016, 12:04 AM   #346
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2016 US Presidential Election Pt. IV

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This brings me hope... for you. But the truth is she's still an icon for the culture of ignorance crowd.

How would a young conservative like yourself change this? If you don't want to see your party(or the right) die, what would you do? I'm honestly curious. It's something I've been trying to figure out for a while; how do the true libertarians or conservatives justify this candidate, or anyone being presented?


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The Republican Party needs to stop living in the past and start creating a future. It needs a massive reform and not in a Ted Cruz way. They want to take back the government in a "Reagan Conservative" way. That's the problem. Reagan wasn't even a "principled Reagan conservative" by today's standards. Stop modeling off the 80's and try to create your own legacy. I'm so sick and tired of this Reagan pandering. It doesn't excite young voters like myself.
I want to see someone who is serious about cutting government spending without giving poor people the middle finger and in a true, principled way. Trump, Cruz, etc keep talking about the debt. Yet they're willing to spend trillions on the military and cut taxes at the same time. It just doesn't work that way. I'm all for cutting taxes, but real spending cuts have to be made. We don't need to be involved in every war on earth.
We need a massive education reform and schooling needs to be put back into the hands of the parents. Incentivize more private schools by offering easily accessible vouchers based on income levels. The goal should be to progressively decrease dependence on Public schools and instead create a market for private schools. Parents can have control of what their kids learn. If they want to send their child to a Jewish school, an art school, a Muslim school, a Christian school, a music school, etc. that should be encouraged and affordable. A single mother of three shouldn't have to worry about the cost of her children's education, but still able to have control over what they learn. Diversity and creative thinking is what makes America great! If everyone is learning the same basic curriculum, then everyone is going to think and act the same. Progress of future generations will be stalled. Look at the state of our country today. So much gridlock and a two party system that doesn't seem like it will ever change. That's largely due to our education system IMO. Not enough outside the box and creative thinkers who are willing to challenge both what they agree with and what they disagree with. Too many blind sheep who model their beliefs off of what others believe. Hence, my major issues with "Reagan conservatism". People model their beliefs off of Reagan and people who tout themselves as his followers instead of having ideas of their own. Both sides do this.
There's a lot of other issues that needed to be better assessed such as prison reform, immigration, etc. This whole "if we build a wall, illegal immigration will stop" BS is total non sense. They can build a wall up to the clouds and they'll still come over. They have an enormous, comprehensive system of tunnels and other outlets. We need to make it easier, quicker and more affordable for immigrants to become citizens. The system is broken.
I felt like Rand Paul was doing a great job of being a true outsider who wanted reform. But sadly, he seems to have gotten desperate and went the route of sucking up to the demographics instead of standing for what he believes in. Quite sad.
I can't believe people seriously fall for this Trump-Evangelical BS. It's so blatantly pandering and insincere that it's insulting. The Cruz NYC comment cost me any shot of voting for him in the primaries. He claims to be an outsider who won't say whatever it takes to be elected, yet clearly and publicly made a statement pandering to Iowa voters because his staff thought it was a good idea. He knew right away that he made a very stupid mistake if you look at his response to Trump. Once again, a candidate who betrays their values for votes.
If I had to vote today, I would vote for Rubio. I agree with his immigration policy and I hope he stays firm in his outsider stance on that. Time will tell. I have concerns about how he would balance a budget with as much military spending he's promising, but no one besides Paul and Kasich are serious about balancing a budget. I hope to see a Rubio/Paul or Rubio/Kasich ticket.
The system is going to have to go through a serious crash before anything gets done. I think it is inevitable because neither side is interested in the better good for the nation. After we crumble, our generation or the next will be responsible for fixing it. I have hope that one day we won't have two sides that are so separate and selfish. The people who have the power now are on borrowed time.

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Old 01-21-2016, 02:30 AM   #347
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The goal should be to progressively decrease dependence on Public schools and instead create a market for private schools.

This is awful idea for many reasons that I don't have time to elaborate now, I'll get to it soon though. Basically you'd be further widening the education gap between rich and poor Americans. The rich would be able to afford better schools and poor Americans wouldn't. Even with a voucher system. We need to work on improving our public education system because that benefits all Americans, not just rich ones.


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Old 01-21-2016, 07:11 AM   #348
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This is really the best we've got? On both sides of the aisle?

Fuck, we're doomed.
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Old 01-21-2016, 08:46 AM   #349
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This is awful idea for many reasons that I don't have time to elaborate now, I'll get to it soon though. Basically you'd be further widening the education gap between rich and poor Americans. The rich would be able to afford better schools and poor Americans wouldn't. Even with a voucher system. We need to work on improving our public education system because that benefits all Americans, not just rich ones.


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Duh. That's why it's a Republican goal.


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Old 01-21-2016, 11:11 AM   #350
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schooling needs to be put back into the hands of the parents.
Seriously, this is a thing?

Has schooling been "in the hands of the parents" historically? Because parents are experts at educating children?
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Old 01-21-2016, 11:24 AM   #351
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Originally Posted by anitram View Post
Seriously, this is a thing?



Has schooling been "in the hands of the parents" historically? Because parents are experts at educating children?

Yes. Parents should have control over what their kids learn, not the government.


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Old 01-21-2016, 11:28 AM   #352
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2016 US Presidential Election Pt. IV

Yeah. That'll work.

Each individual parent? A collective of parents making decisions? A parent with different ideas than you? A parent who thinks prayer to Mecca five times a day is the right thing to do? A parent who thinks science is all false?

How does this fantasy work?


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Old 01-21-2016, 11:40 AM   #353
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Originally Posted by martha View Post
Yeah. That'll work.

Each individual parent? A collective of parents making decisions? A parent with different ideas than you? A parent who thinks prayer to Mecca five times a day is the right thing to do? A parent who thinks science is all false?

How does this fantasy work?


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martha, these questions aren't simplistic, monosyllabic sloganeering. how on earth will anyone understand it?
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Old 01-21-2016, 11:49 AM   #354
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2016 US Presidential Election Pt. IV

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsaget77 View Post
The Republican Party needs to stop living in the past and start creating a future. It needs a massive reform and not in a Ted Cruz way. They want to take back the government in a "Reagan Conservative" way. That's the problem. Reagan wasn't even a "principled Reagan conservative" by today's standards. Stop modeling off the 80's and try to create your own legacy. I'm so sick and tired of this Reagan pandering. It doesn't excite young voters like myself.
I want to see someone who is serious about cutting government spending without giving poor people the middle finger and in a true, principled way. Trump, Cruz, etc keep talking about the debt. Yet they're willing to spend trillions on the military and cut taxes at the same time. It just doesn't work that way. I'm all for cutting taxes, but real spending cuts have to be made. We don't need to be involved in every war on earth.
We need a massive education reform and schooling needs to be put back into the hands of the parents. Incentivize more private schools by offering easily accessible vouchers based on income levels. The goal should be to progressively decrease dependence on Public schools and instead create a market for private schools. Parents can have control of what their kids learn. If they want to send their child to a Jewish school, an art school, a Muslim school, a Christian school, a music school, etc. that should be encouraged and affordable. A single mother of three shouldn't have to worry about the cost of her children's education, but still able to have control over what they learn. Diversity and creative thinking is what makes America great! If everyone is learning the same basic curriculum, then everyone is going to think and act the same. Progress of future generations will be stalled. Look at the state of our country today. So much gridlock and a two party system that doesn't seem like it will ever change. That's largely due to our education system IMO. Not enough outside the box and creative thinkers who are willing to challenge both what they agree with and what they disagree with. Too many blind sheep who model their beliefs off of what others believe. Hence, my major issues with "Reagan conservatism". People model their beliefs off of Reagan and people who tout themselves as his followers instead of having ideas of their own. Both sides do this.
There's a lot of other issues that needed to be better assessed such as prison reform, immigration, etc. This whole "if we build a wall, illegal immigration will stop" BS is total non sense. They can build a wall up to the clouds and they'll still come over. They have an enormous, comprehensive system of tunnels and other outlets. We need to make it easier, quicker and more affordable for immigrants to become citizens. The system is broken.
I felt like Rand Paul was doing a great job of being a true outsider who wanted reform. But sadly, he seems to have gotten desperate and went the route of sucking up to the demographics instead of standing for what he believes in. Quite sad.
I can't believe people seriously fall for this Trump-Evangelical BS. It's so blatantly pandering and insincere that it's insulting. The Cruz NYC comment cost me any shot of voting for him in the primaries. He claims to be an outsider who won't say whatever it takes to be elected, yet clearly and publicly made a statement pandering to Iowa voters because his staff thought it was a good idea. He knew right away that he made a very stupid mistake if you look at his response to Trump. Once again, a candidate who betrays their values for votes.
If I had to vote today, I would vote for Rubio. I agree with his immigration policy and I hope he stays firm in his outsider stance on that. Time will tell. I have concerns about how he would balance a budget with as much military spending he's promising, but no one besides Paul and Kasich are serious about balancing a budget. I hope to see a Rubio/Paul or Rubio/Kasich ticket.
The system is going to have to go through a serious crash before anything gets done. I think it is inevitable because neither side is interested in the better good for the nation. After we crumble, our generation or the next will be responsible for fixing it. I have hope that one day we won't have two sides that are so separate and selfish. The people who have the power now are on borrowed time.

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Thank you for the thought out response. For the most part I agree with much of what you're saying, although I believe you're going to have to give your education stance a little more thought. But another time another thread...


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Old 01-21-2016, 12:06 PM   #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martha View Post
Yeah. That'll work.

Each individual parent? A collective of parents making decisions? A parent with different ideas than you? A parent who thinks prayer to Mecca five times a day is the right thing to do? A parent who thinks science is all false?

How does this fantasy work?


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Read my post. I'm not saying everyone should be homeschooled. I'm saying that parents should have more control of where they send their kids to learn. If they want to send their children to a school where they pray to Mecca 5 times a day and learns Arabic, etc. That's fine with me. In fact, it should be encouraged.
If a school specializes in history and language that's great too. They'll still learn the basics of math, english, grammer, vocab, etc. But schools can put a bigger focus on certain aspects of education. It will lead to specialization of schools and a lesser dependence on college. This will drive college tuition down.
We need to progressively encourage the growth of private schools and then we sell off all the assets of the public school system. The good teachers will get good jobs. Teachers will have the leverage because the best can choose where they want to go. If you're a bad teacher, there's a good chance you won't get a good job.
Parents should choose where their kids go to school. I don't want to see a generation of robot thinkers. We need diversity of thought and belief.


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Old 01-21-2016, 12:09 PM   #356
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Thank you for the thought out response. For the most part I agree with much of what you're saying, although I believe you're going to have to give your education stance a little more thought. But another time another thread...


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I'm still working through the kinks on my education stance, but the system needs reform. I don't think pumping money back into the public school system is the answer.


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Old 01-21-2016, 12:14 PM   #357
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Read my post. I'm not saying everyone should be homeschooled. I'm saying that parents should have more control of where they send their kids to learn. If they want to send their children to a school where they pray to Mecca 5 times a day and learns Arabic, etc. That's fine with me. In fact, it should be encouraged.
If a school specializes in history and language that's great too. They'll still learn the basics of math, english, grammer, vocab, etc. But schools can put a bigger focus on certain aspects of education. It will lead to specialization of schools and a lesser dependence on college. This will drive college tuition down.
We need to progressively encourage the growth of private schools and then we sell off all the assets of the public school system. The good teachers will get good jobs. Teachers will have the leverage because the best can choose where they want to go. If you're a bad teacher, there's a good chance you won't get a good job.
Parents should choose where their kids go to school. I don't want to see a generation of robot thinkers. We need diversity of thought and belief.


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But do you understand that taxpayer money going to religious schools is a violation of the First Amendment?

And that rich parents can afford better schools and poor children will be left behind?

And that most educators say that specialization early in a child's educational career isn't good?

And that privatization is not good for an educational system? Look at charter schools, the only reason why it appears that they do better on test scores is because they're able to get rid of poor performing students and pick higher achieving kids. Would poor performing students simply be kicked out of schools because those schools are afraid of the kids dragging down their test scores?


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Old 01-21-2016, 12:16 PM   #358
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The good teachers will get good jobs. Teachers will have the leverage because the best can choose where they want to go.
This is really la-la land thinking.

The schools that have the most money and pay the most (i.e. those attended by the ultra wealthy) will attract the most educated/specialized teachers. What teacher would PREFER going to a school that pays 25% as much, has a high proportion of kids who don't speak English and is in an inner city? In other words, the poor kids will get crappy facilities, teachers who either don't want to be there or can't get employed anywhere else, and will continue to lag behind.

And how do you propose that all kids be equally prepared for college entrance exams and college generally if there are no public standards set?
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Old 01-21-2016, 12:32 PM   #359
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I'm still working through the kinks on my education stance, but the system needs reform. I don't think pumping money back into the public school system is the answer.


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Yes it does. And specialized schools are good in theory, but how many 14 year olds truly know what they want to do with the rest of their lives?

My problem with your stance is that you're getting close to removing standardization; which leaves some dangerous holes. One can start teaching that the earth is only 2,000* years old, or that slavery wasn't that bad because slaves were treated like family.


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Old 01-21-2016, 01:10 PM   #360
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2016 US Presidential Election Pt. IV

It's been a tenet of conservative thought that Education works best in a Local > State > Federal pyramid.

I like Bobs ideas on re-thinking education. Right now teachers are straddled teaching to the standardized State or National tests rather than fostering an engaging classroom experience.

We also need to embrace tablet technology and shed the textbook cartel. Lord knows we don't want anymore schoolbook depositories. Lugging around all those books killed my back in HS.


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