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Old 09-16-2015, 03:07 PM   #931
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the huge problem with Biden, outside of this left-leaning internet forum of many like minded souls, is that a Biden nomination makes this a referendum on Obama, as Biden is lock step with the Obama-Biden Presidency.

Clinton was a much more popular president with more accomplishments in 1999-2000 than Obama is now and will be next year. And a younger more competent VP than Biden, could not beat a total light weight idiot non-savant like W.

Why do you think the GOP insiders are clamoring for Biden over Hillary??
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Old 09-16-2015, 04:34 PM   #932
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but if this was PTI I'd be giving him some points
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Old 09-16-2015, 05:06 PM   #933
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I wouldn't underestimate Biden.
He can connect to people on a personal level, similar to the way Sanders does. But is much more close to the left-center than Sanders. I think Biden is actually a generally likeable guy.

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I like Biden a lot, his candor and humility are refreshing - but I don't think he's going to run. He's been very open about dealing with his grief over the loss of his son - he's even said that he's not at a point and doesn't know when he will be at a point where he could even entertain the idea of committing to everything a presidential run entails. I'd rather he be given the time and space he needs to grieve without any political pressure.
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Old 09-16-2015, 05:41 PM   #934
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I kind of like Biden, but honestly at his age, he's had a really good career and there is no shame in "only" being VP. I would hope for him to ride off into the sunset in his corvette, enjoy the rest of his days with his family, and work only if and when he desires. The job of potus isn't something i would wish on anyone his age, even though it's quite likely someone his age (or near) will get it (Hillary, Sanders, TRUMP!, etc.)

That said, if Joe does decide to run, it's probably a telltale sign that Hillary is in deep trouble or the party doesn't think she can win because of server-gate or whatever they are calling it. I can sort of see Joe getting into the ring for the sake of the party, country, or general sense of duty. But i sure hope for his sake that he doesn't have to.
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Old 09-16-2015, 07:03 PM   #935
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Biden is actually doing a lot better than Clinton in the heads-up polls against Republicans...he has far less baggage. I also think Clinton, as Secretary of State in Obama's first term, will also get targeted as "Obama's Third Term" regardless by the GOP Super Pacs.

Ultimately, I don't think it matters if Sanders or Clinton or Biden is the Democratic Nominee...especially with the Electoral College. Unless one of those three is mired in some major scandal or just flat out screws up, it won't make a difference and the election result will basically be the same.
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Old 09-16-2015, 07:04 PM   #936
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of all the nominees
there are only 2 Sanders has a slim chance of beating

they are Hillary and Biden, if he gets past them, he would lose to any in the GOP that get the nom, Trump would beat him in a land slide.

If Biden gets the nomination, he is a sure loser.


party insiders, can not always stop a disaster nomination i.e. Goldwater in 64
McGovern in 72

Sanders falls in the category of Goldwater or McGovern as a sure loser
Trump is not in that category.
Sanders is very similar to a McGovern

The Dems are in a pickle right now. Sanders is the second coming of McGovern and Hillary is wounded and does not sound good on the stump.

As a conservative voter I'd welcome a match-up against either of them.

Behind closed doors, I wonder what National Democrats are strategizing. If they can't draft Biden then where do they look to?

Warren, Gore, Kerry?
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Old 09-16-2015, 07:08 PM   #937
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Except this country is a hell of a lot more liberal (and now undeniably left leaning) than it was in 1972. Sanders would do just fine as what he preaches is pretty much what Obama pretended to support in 2008. How will it be hard for Sanders to become President when Democrats will have gained a five million voter advantage in the last eight years just from Republicans dying? This is in no way the same country it was almost 50 years ago. Sanders and his policies might scare some people in the middle, but he'll make up for that easily by getting a ton of people that otherwise wouldn't vote to show up at the polls.

The white vote alone drops like 2.5% every four years. It's a very, very easy climate to elect another Democratic President and it's quickly making it almost impossible for a Republican to ever be elected to that office again.
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Old 09-16-2015, 07:09 PM   #938
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Ultimately, I don't think it matters if Sanders or Clinton or Biden is the Democratic Nominee...especially with the Electoral College. Unless one of those three is mired in some major scandal or just flat out screws up, it won't make a difference and the election result will basically be the same.
I wouldn't be so quick feel safe behind the blue wall electorally. Obama was an exceptional candidate in 08' and popular enough in '12. Kerry and Gore fought a good fight in their time.

Pennsylvania and Wisconsin may not be safe territory depending on the match-up.
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Old 09-16-2015, 07:13 PM   #939
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Except this country is a hell of a lot more liberal (and now undeniably left leaning) than it was in 1972. Sanders would do just fine as what he preaches is pretty much what Obama pretended to support in 2008. How will it be hard for Sanders to become President when Democrats will have gained a five million voter advantage in the last eight years just from Republicans dying? This is in no way the same country it was almost 50 years ago. Sanders and his policies might scare some people in the middle, but he'll make up for that easily by getting a ton of people that otherwise wouldn't vote to show up at the polls.

The white vote alone drops like 2.5% every four years. It's a very, very easy climate to elect another Democratic President and it's quickly making it almost impossible for a Republican to ever be elected to that office again.
Some of what you're saying is correct with demographic changes. I just think Sanders has his limits with reaching beyond his party base.
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Old 09-16-2015, 07:21 PM   #940
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There was a poll before the 2012 election that had Obama at 70%, Romney at 13% and the rest undecided among people that weren't planning to vote. That's a group that ended up being over 40% of the electorate. That's a lot of would be left-leaning voters and the Republicans would already be dead on the national level if everybody voted.

As far as people "in the middle" that do vote, well, there's hardly anybody left that fits the bill. Most of the election ads are geared at getting people to the polls rather than trying to convince the 5% that are total morons and still undecided. Or at least, I hope that's the case, otherwise we're spending billions to convince the stupid...

Anyway, my argument is that the country is so partisan and so clearly left-leaning when people actually bother to vote that there's no doubt Sanders would do just as well as the other Democrats. He only does worse than Biden/Clinton in the heads-up polls simply because a lot of Americans still don't know who the hell he is...but I'll tell you one thing, I'd feel more comfortable with someone running in November '16 with Bernie's platform than with Clinton and her current unfavorable and "not trustworthy" polling results.
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Old 09-16-2015, 08:29 PM   #941
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So has anything laughable happened yet in the debate of the crazies and absolute crazies, or is it just same old soundbites? Has Trump chosen another group of people to make broad, sweeping derogatory comments about?

God this is hilarious to watch from afar. I'm still trying to figure out how the Clinton email thing is even a noteworthy issue, let alone a potential threat to her candidature, but then I'm sure any international observer looking at Australian politics would be equally mystified by some of the things that have become major issues here in recent times.
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Old 09-16-2015, 09:01 PM   #942
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Why the talk of planned parenthood?

Iran and planned parenthood

Blah blah


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Old 09-16-2015, 09:03 PM   #943
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Just catching up and as far as I can tell this is a panel of absolute morons who think international diplomacy ought to be replaced by brute force.

Good grief, what a circus.
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Old 09-16-2015, 09:08 PM   #944
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It's more of a joke on how this whole thing works. It's run like a game show


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Old 09-16-2015, 09:13 PM   #945
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My post got lost in the Internet somewhere...

Got to watch about fifteen minutes of this. My thoughts.

Kasich is basically a saint compared to the rest of these people. Even when talking about defunding planned parenthood he mentions installing alternatives.

Rand Paul would be great if he weren't so terrible at other things.

Trump is hilarious.

Christie, Huckabee and Cruz are equally the worst.
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