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Old 08-18-2015, 01:42 PM   #601
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i think the novelty will wear off, and i think Sanders will wind up being good for Hillary, and it will be closer in the beginning than we thought months ago.

it will be either:

Bush/Kasich or Rubio/Fiornia vs. Clinton/??? (Manchin?)

and Clinton will win.

that's my prediction 6 months out from the first primaries.

This looks pretty likely. Although I think Clinton's vp is a total crapshoot at this point.


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Old 08-18-2015, 01:45 PM   #602
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Rather than using my own words ....Harvard Professor Lawrence Lessig is exactly right about what's fundamentally wrong with American government.



Lawrence Lessig explains how money corrupts Congress | Harvard Magazine



an excerpt from his book:



Lawrence Lessig on How We Lost Our Democracy | Rolling Stone



a solid overview of his book:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic,_Lost





Lessig is a liberal libertarian of sorts. He's the closest I've found to someone who I would really be excited about running for President - mostly because of this one issue - the exact problem with American government. The problem is a little complicated but essentially, the solution isn't. We first have to deemphasize the importance of financing campaigns, and you can only feasibly do this by having fewer elections. Longer terms, term limits.



Otherwise you're relying on the people to rise up together and demand congress police itself with bullshit legislation that will have built-in loopholes. If you literally have fewer elections, you have de-emphasized the need for constant campaign funding, you have de-emphasized the buying of votes. Short of being able to educate the American people to be more informed (LOL, Trump and Bernie this cycle, Kucinich and Ron Paul...before them Buchanan and Nader, the outsiders are always on the ideological fringe) then we have to tackle the problems we can actually fix, in some meaningful way.



Said another way, you lessen partisan gridlock when there is less reason for them to play politics with every single thing under the sun. They only do this because they are CONSTANTLY worried about elections. That money can essentially buy elections is a problem unto itself, but almost unfixable in any reasonable time-frame (decades upon decades). When you have low information voters...not just those that know the entire Kardashian family but couldn't tell you who Joe Biden was...but those that pay attention, become actively engaged and then become turned on to non-serious fringe ideas.

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Old 08-18-2015, 04:41 PM   #603
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I'm pleased that citizens are speaking out about their dissatisfaction with an oligarchal system of government that causes incompetence to fester. It is too easy to hold on to your position (or your lineage's position) in government with money, seniority and the right connections. This isn't new information.

I think we all know that there's corruption in Washington, but there's a real danger in accepting the distant hope of systemic change as the key issue of the election. Hateful rhetoric and a paucity of legitimate ideas have filled the spot where innovation and experience should go. The idea of Trump and Carson running my country terrifies me because there's so little substance or diplomatic experience there, but it seems to be their greatest asset according to about a third of Republicans. "Different" cannot equate to "terrible" because we're supposedly at rock bottom. We may find out, though I realize polling data trends away from novelty as the election approaches.
i agree with a lot of what you are saying here, however, regarding this:

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The idea of Trump and Carson running my country terrifies me because there's so little substance or diplomatic experience there, but it seems to be their greatest asset according to about a third of Republicans.
Couldn't the same have been said for the Junior Senator from Illinois back in 2008?
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Old 08-18-2015, 05:40 PM   #604
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Yes and no. Obama's political experience may have been nil, but his voting record in the Senate (and no, I don't mean voting present 129 times out of 4000) appealed to me at me the time. That is something tangible when trying to divine political views and policies. Substance, as it were.

Meanwhile, Trump woke up the other day as a Republican or something.
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Old 08-18-2015, 06:17 PM   #605
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i agree with a lot of what you are saying here, however, regarding this:



Couldn't the same have been said for the Junior Senator from Illinois back in 2008?
Yes, yes it was said.
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Old 08-18-2015, 06:31 PM   #606
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And then they talked about Sarah Palin's executive experience.


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Old 08-18-2015, 06:44 PM   #607
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Yes and no. Obama's political experience may have been nil, but his voting record in the Senate (and no, I don't mean voting present 129 times out of 4000) appealed to me at me the time. That is something tangible when trying to divine political views and policies. Substance, as it were.

Meanwhile, Trump woke up the other day as a Republican or something.
If you went on substance alone, Trump was mostly a liberal (by far right conservative standards) who has had amnesia for the past 4 years. Would Trump be more palatable if he were running on the Dem ticket, say in 2008?
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Old 08-18-2015, 06:57 PM   #608
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If you went on substance alone, Trump was mostly a liberal (by far right conservative standards) who has had amnesia for the past 4 years. Would Trump be more palatable if he were running on the Dem ticket, say in 2008?
He'd still be a raging asshole with no interest in diplomacy. Not exactly my idea of presidential material.
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Old 08-18-2015, 07:06 PM   #609
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If you went on substance alone, Trump was mostly a liberal (by far right conservative standards) who has had amnesia for the past 4 years. Would Trump be more palatable if he were running on the Dem ticket, say in 2008?

No, asshole is asshole in any setting or language.


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Old 08-18-2015, 07:11 PM   #610
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Yes, yes it was said.
I agree it was said a lot by the republicans and Faux News. I am more interested in hearing what Dems have to say about that now, in regards to "outsiders" like Trump or Carson, having voted for "outsiders" before themselves.

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And then they talked about Sarah Palin's executive experience.


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Sarah Palin wasn't running for POTUS, however you do bring up a valid point about her experience. Also let's consider that John McCain was 72 years old when running for POTUS and people were (rightfully) scared about his age and health, specifically with a nut like Palin as his VP pick.

Hillary is currently 67, Bernie is 73, and if Biden were to enter the race he is currently 72. Does the age of any of these three concern you or anyone?
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Old 08-18-2015, 07:13 PM   #611
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He'd still be a raging asshole with no interest in diplomacy. Not exactly my idea of presidential material.
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No, asshole is asshole in any setting or language.


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fair enough
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Old 08-18-2015, 07:37 PM   #612
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Sarah Palin wasn't running for POTUS, however you do bring up a valid point about her experience.
One of my co-workers used this argument to rail against Obama. "She has experience, Martha."

Never mind that she was a fucking moron, and she ran a state that had a population smaller than LA within its city limits.
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Old 08-18-2015, 07:42 PM   #613
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One of my co-workers used this argument to rail against Obama. "She has experience, Martha."

Never mind that she was a fucking moron, and she ran a state that had a population smaller than LA within its city limits.
She'll be the Secretary of Energy under President Trump.

By the way, how's Hillary doing? Emails and server seized by the FBI.

During a press conference they asked if she wiped the server clean.

"What like with a cloth or something?"

There is serious panic on the Dem side if she'll make it to 2016 with the investigation and her evasive campaigning.
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Old 08-18-2015, 07:48 PM   #614
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One of my co-workers used this argument to rail against Obama. "She has experience, Martha."

Never mind that she was a fucking moron, and she ran a state that had a population smaller than LA within its city limits.
John McCain was obviously trying to attract pissed off women who wanted Hillary to be POTUS, why he thought that would work is beyond me. Oddly enough Palin excited the GOP base in a way that McCain never could. They really didn't care that she couldn't name the name of one newspaper - just one(!) - or that she didn't know what the 'Bush Doctrine' was, or that she claimed she could see Russia from her backyard.

For those people, her "executive experience" of running the Alaskan National Guard and being the Governor of Wasilla, or whatever else, was just fine with them.

Clearly i wasn't impressed with Obama's experience but at least he didn't need a bag put over his head every time he opened his mouth.

Had the McCain / Palin ticket won in 2008, she would have had a very good reason to quit her position as Gov to take on the higher calling of VP. However, she lost and yet she still quit on her state.

Have you ever seen the movie 'Game Change' (HBO)? Very good movie.
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Old 08-18-2015, 07:56 PM   #615
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that she claimed she could see Russia from her backyard.
That was Tina Fey playing off an accurate comment that Palin said in the Westernmost tip of Alaska you can see Russia across the Bering Strait on a clear day.

So many people think Palin actually said it.

The groundswell of Palin support was the initial rumblings of the Tea Party which was born during Rick Santelli's rant on the floor of the Chicago Merc exchange.

https://youtu.be/bEZB4taSEoA
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