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Old 08-11-2015, 05:14 PM   #526
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^ Wow yes. I was gung ho for removing Saddam back in the day. But damn if we don't miss him now, knowing what we now know. Most of you were correct way back then. We've been looking for the next Saddam ever since we took out the original. Pretty sad when most everyone agrees now that Iraq under Saddam was...better...for pretty much everyone compared to where we stand now. Damn.
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Old 08-11-2015, 05:31 PM   #527
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Oh you're sending the Wolf? Sheeet, that's all you had to say

Nicely done Wolf.

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Old 08-11-2015, 05:35 PM   #528
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ISIS is not just contained in Iraq and the Levant. They have franchises popping up in Libya, Egypt, and Afghanistan.

Granted Egypt has the ability to deal with it internally. But it is like a spreading cancer. And we hear crickets from the UN, they're too busy scolding Israel.
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Old 08-11-2015, 06:00 PM   #529
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"Crime Of the Century"? lol. Bush-cheney were re-elected 20 months after the invasion of Iraq. It was already U.S. policy started under Bill Clinton to find a way to remove Saddam and set up a new Iraqi government and that is what Bush/Cheney did.



Western intervention is not what keeps ISIS numbers up. Its LACK of western intervention which boosted ISIS from a backyard sandlot to a caliphate. In 2011, with U.S. troops still in Iraq, and the civil war in Syria in its infancy, the acronym ISIS did not exist. U.S. troops withdrew from Iraq at the end of 2011 and the Syrian civil war escalated after 2011. During 2012 and 2013, lack of U.S. involvement in both Syria and Iraq saw the situation in both countries worsen. ISIS grew in Syria during that time. Then in early 2014 they took Falluja and half of Ramadi. Then during the week of June 9 to June 13, large numbers of ISIS forces moved in from Eastern Syria into North West Iraq and defeated Iraqi forces in Mosul and Tikrit that had been weakened partly because of U.S. neglect caused by the U.S. withdrawal in 2011.

Unlike Al Quada, ISIS has successfully taken provincial capitals in both Syria and Iraq and held them. These unparalleled success's and the use of social media on the internet to spread word of these success's is what is driving recruitment. The Western Air campaign against ISIS has been relatively weak although ISIS's largest advances seem to have been stopped. The group continues though to control a vast amount of territory, and has access to black market oil sales which continues to feed their machine.
Until a responsible political/military policy is put in place, ISIS will remain a threat in the region as well as a worldwide threat. ISIS has numbers and money that dwarf the capabilities of prior terrorist groups. Keep in mind of course, that it does not take vast numbers of people and money to do severe damage on the other side of the world. Just look at what 19 men armed with box cutters were able to do on 9/11.

Obama's response to ISIS has been weak and ineffective. Hopefully that will change before he leaves office, but I doubt it. There will be a much stronger response to ISIS once Hillary or one of the Republicans comes into office in January 2017.



Bush did a far better job with Iraq than Obama has done. Had Obama not abandoned Iraq at the end of 2011, ISIS would still be a largely unknown rebel group primarily based in Syria.




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Old 08-11-2015, 06:41 PM   #530
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It was already U.S. policy started under Bill Clinton to find a way to remove Saddam and set up a new Iraqi government and that is what Bush/Cheney did.

Wow. What a massive misrepresentation of what actually happened.
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Old 08-11-2015, 06:56 PM   #531
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And a post like that gets hoo-rah'd in a manner that suggests they read it and thought "Oh thank God that's what happened, I was getting worried people who criticized me were right."
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Old 08-11-2015, 07:01 PM   #532
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And a post like that gets hoo-rah'd in a manner that suggests they read it and thought "Oh thank God that's what happened, I was getting worried people who criticized me were right."

And a post like this is what you say when you realize you're wrong and have no counter argument.


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Old 08-11-2015, 07:58 PM   #533
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Western intervention is not what keeps ISIS numbers up. Its LACK of western intervention which boosted ISIS from a backyard sandlot to a caliphate. In 2011, with U.S. troops still in Iraq, and the civil war in Syria in its infancy, the acronym ISIS did not exist. U.S. troops withdrew from Iraq at the end of 2011 and the Syrian civil war escalated after 2011. During 2012 and 2013, lack of U.S. involvement in both Syria and Iraq saw the situation in both countries worsen. ISIS grew in Syria during that time. Then in early 2014 they took Falluja and half of Ramadi. Then during the week of June 9 to June 13, large numbers of ISIS forces moved in from Eastern Syria into North West Iraq and defeated Iraqi forces in Mosul and Tikrit that had been weakened partly because of U.S. neglect caused by the U.S. withdrawal in 2011.
Well, sure. I'm not sure what your point is here with the history lesson, my post was exclusively referring to the present situation.

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Unlike Al Quada, ISIS has successfully taken provincial capitals in both Syria and Iraq and held them. These unparalleled success's and the use of social media on the internet to spread word of these success's is what is driving recruitment.
Of course Al Qaeda never took any provincial capitals, because expanding and holding a territory was never a goal. Al Qaeda never intended to be the government of anything, that's what the Taliban was there for.

ISIS, on the other hand, as I said earlier, absolutely must conquer and expand, because without it they have no theological legitimacy.

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The Western Air campaign against ISIS has been relatively weak although ISIS's largest advances seem to have been stopped. The group continues though to control a vast amount of territory, and has access to black market oil sales which continues to feed their machine.
Until a responsible political/military policy is put in place, ISIS will remain a threat in the region as well as a worldwide threat. ISIS has numbers and money that dwarf the capabilities of prior terrorist groups. Keep in mind of course, that it does not take vast numbers of people and money to do severe damage on the other side of the world. Just look at what 19 men armed with box cutters were able to do on 9/11.
And once again as stated previously, despite the bluster they (as an organization) have no desire whatsoever to attack Americans in America. That's not to say that some follower who returns home won't carry out an attack on their own and say that it's in the name of ISIS, but ISIS as a group does not want to attack America. They want to attack Syria and Iraq (once again, territory is key for a Caliphate) and don't want to divert money, men, and resources into any kind of large-scale attack on the US because it doesn't really help them. Westerners are scared enough of the threat of an attack (because who in the US above the age of 25 doesn't immediately think of 9/11 when a group of guys in ski masks with AK-47s speaking Arabic make terrorist threats). They have no need to actually attack, once again, as a group-sanctioned and financed mission, outside Syria and Iraq.

Yes, 19 men with box cutters obviously did a lot of damage, but keep in mind that 9/11 took years and cost a fortune to eventually get those 19 guys on the planes. ISIS hasn't been around long enough, nor does it care enough. A video threatening to cut off the infidels' heads in the streets of America is enough to make Mr and Mrs Baker in Idaho demand action.

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Obama's response to ISIS has been weak and ineffective. Hopefully that will change before he leaves office, but I doubt it. There will be a much stronger response to ISIS once Hillary or one of the Republicans comes into office in January 2017.

Bush did a far better job with Iraq than Obama has done. Had Obama not abandoned Iraq at the end of 2011, ISIS would still be a largely unknown rebel group primarily based in Syria.
This kind of thinking is along the lines of a "What if the Nazis had won on D-Day" blog post. It's just empty speculation and guessing. If the Spartans hadn't won at Thermopylae, maybe we'd all be speaking Persian right now. But we don't.
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Old 08-11-2015, 07:58 PM   #534
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Wow. What a massive misrepresentation of what actually happened.
I think this is what Wolf was getting at. Signed by Bill Clinton in 1998. Declaration of violations by Saddam and support for regime change. The law was cited in the lead-up to the 2002-2003 Congressional votes.

He wasn't trying to say that Clinton had invasion on his mind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Liberation_Act
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Old 08-11-2015, 09:50 PM   #535
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Had Bush not gone in in the first place imagine where we'd be.

When you have Fox News and the radio talking heads now saying "who would of thought we'd be longing for the days of Saddam?" you know you fucked up royally.


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Old 08-11-2015, 10:03 PM   #536
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^ Wow yes. I was gung ho for removing Saddam back in the day. But damn if we don't miss him now, knowing what we now know. Most of you were correct way back then. We've been looking for the next Saddam ever since we took out the original. Pretty sad when most everyone agrees now that Iraq under Saddam was...better...for pretty much everyone compared to where we stand now. Damn.
Yep, the invasion of Kuwait and its annexation several days after was a real "cool" event. So was the invasion of Iran. Or how about the launching of ballistic missiles against Israel, dozens of them. Saudi Arabia was also invaded and had a hail of ballistic missiles launched against it. Yep, lets resurrect Saddam so the world can experience these uniquely "cool" events again. Or how about the March 16, 1988 Chemical attack on Halabja that murdered 5,000 people and injured over 10,000. Do you want to repeat that again? Its one thing when northwest Iraq and half of Syria are in trouble, its quite another when Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Israel are in trouble.

Its a great thing that Saddam is gone, but I guess I should not be surprised there are those that wish for his return. There are people out there that wish Hitler would return.
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Old 08-11-2015, 10:10 PM   #537
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Well, sure. I'm not sure what your point is here with the history lesson, my post was exclusively referring to the present situation.



Of course Al Qaeda never took any provincial capitals, because expanding and holding a territory was never a goal. Al Qaeda never intended to be the government of anything, that's what the Taliban was there for.

ISIS, on the other hand, as I said earlier, absolutely must conquer and expand, because without it they have no theological legitimacy.



And once again as stated previously, despite the bluster they (as an organization) have no desire whatsoever to attack Americans in America. That's not to say that some follower who returns home won't carry out an attack on their own and say that it's in the name of ISIS, but ISIS as a group does not want to attack America. They want to attack Syria and Iraq (once again, territory is key for a Caliphate) and don't want to divert money, men, and resources into any kind of large-scale attack on the US because it doesn't really help them. Westerners are scared enough of the threat of an attack (because who in the US above the age of 25 doesn't immediately think of 9/11 when a group of guys in ski masks with AK-47s speaking Arabic make terrorist threats). They have no need to actually attack, once again, as a group-sanctioned and financed mission, outside Syria and Iraq.

Yes, 19 men with box cutters obviously did a lot of damage, but keep in mind that 9/11 took years and cost a fortune to eventually get those 19 guys on the planes. ISIS hasn't been around long enough, nor does it care enough. A video threatening to cut off the infidels' heads in the streets of America is enough to make Mr and Mrs Baker in Idaho demand action.



This kind of thinking is along the lines of a "What if the Nazis had won on D-Day" blog post. It's just empty speculation and guessing. If the Spartans hadn't won at Thermopylae, maybe we'd all be speaking Persian right now. But we don't.
So where is your source that ISIS has no desire to attack anyone or anything outside of Iraq and Syria? I must of missed the speech from Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi that North America is off limits for any future ISIS operations. Kind of like in the 1990s when Al Qauda was no threat to people living in North America, right?
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Old 08-11-2015, 10:30 PM   #538
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So where is your source that ISIS has no desire to attack anyone or anything outside of Iraq and Syria? I must of missed the speech from Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi that North America is off limits for any future ISIS operations. Kind of like in the 1990s when Al Qauda was no threat to people living in North America, right?
They must be drinking Alex Jones Infowars Kool-Aid. All terrorist attacks on the western world are false flag operations carried out by the NWO.
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Old 08-11-2015, 10:51 PM   #539
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"Crime Of the Century"? lol. Bush-cheney were re-elected 20 months after the invasion of Iraq. It was already U.S. policy started under Bill Clinton to find a way to remove Saddam and set up a new Iraqi government and that is what Bush/Cheney did.



Western intervention is not what keeps ISIS numbers up. Its LACK of western intervention which boosted ISIS from a backyard sandlot to a caliphate. In 2011, with U.S. troops still in Iraq, and the civil war in Syria in its infancy, the acronym ISIS did not exist. U.S. troops withdrew from Iraq at the end of 2011 and the Syrian civil war escalated after 2011. During 2012 and 2013, lack of U.S. involvement in both Syria and Iraq saw the situation in both countries worsen. ISIS grew in Syria during that time. Then in early 2014 they took Falluja and half of Ramadi. Then during the week of June 9 to June 13, large numbers of ISIS forces moved in from Eastern Syria into North West Iraq and defeated Iraqi forces in Mosul and Tikrit that had been weakened partly because of U.S. neglect caused by the U.S. withdrawal in 2011.

Unlike Al Quada, ISIS has successfully taken provincial capitals in both Syria and Iraq and held them. These unparalleled success's and the use of social media on the internet to spread word of these success's is what is driving recruitment. The Western Air campaign against ISIS has been relatively weak although ISIS's largest advances seem to have been stopped. The group continues though to control a vast amount of territory, and has access to black market oil sales which continues to feed their machine.
Until a responsible political/military policy is put in place, ISIS will remain a threat in the region as well as a worldwide threat. ISIS has numbers and money that dwarf the capabilities of prior terrorist groups. Keep in mind of course, that it does not take vast numbers of people and money to do severe damage on the other side of the world. Just look at what 19 men armed with box cutters were able to do on 9/11.

Obama's response to ISIS has been weak and ineffective. Hopefully that will change before he leaves office, but I doubt it. There will be a much stronger response to ISIS once Hillary or one of the Republicans comes into office in January 2017.



Bush did a far better job with Iraq than Obama has done. Had Obama not abandoned Iraq at the end of 2011, ISIS would still be a largely unknown rebel group primarily based in Syria.



Indefinite occupation is not a policy.

I have no desire to live in Israel.

You were given endless blood and treasure to build a functioning state and army in Iraq and you've failed to do so. Western intervention has only made the Middle East worse. We cannot solve problems for other nations -- in fact, they are not even nations.
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Old 08-11-2015, 10:54 PM   #540
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Yep, the invasion of Kuwait and its annexation several days after was a real "cool" event. So was the invasion of Iran. Or how about the launching of ballistic missiles against Israel, dozens of them. Saudi Arabia was also invaded and had a hail of ballistic missiles launched against it. Yep, lets resurrect Saddam so the world can experience these uniquely "cool" events again. Or how about the March 16, 1988 Chemical attack on Halabja that murdered 5,000 people and injured over 10,000. Do you want to repeat that again? Its one thing when northwest Iraq and half of Syria are in trouble, its quite another when Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Israel are in trouble.

Its a great thing that Saddam is gone, but I guess I should not be surprised there are those that wish for his return. There are people out there that wish Hitler would return.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casu...f_the_Iraq_War

100,000 civilians were killed during the Iraq War. Do you want to repeat that again?


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