2012 US Presidential Election Superthread

[Irvine511]

also,

Dickmorris.com

 

[anitram]

He's completely delusional.

 

[Irvine511]

He's completely delusional.

that's how he makes his money.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

The only way I can see Romney winning in a "landslide" (whatever that would be in 2012) is if everyone who was going to vote for Obama in the states affected by Hurricane Sandy can't vote

 

[trojanchick99]

All that would do is have Romney win the popular vote but lose the Electoral College. 7 Ohio polls were released today. Obama lead by at least 2 in all of them.

Also, Dick Morris A republican friend sent me a blog post he made about Obama pulling out of VA, NC and FL because he was losing badly. Um, Obama is concentrating on Ohio because he wins Ohio and given what is happening in NV, PA, WI he wins the election.

 

[deep]

Race tight in four states, Obama holds slight edge: Reuters/Ipsos poll | Reuters

Remember '04 LOTS of folks were in your same boat.

The "mood" leaned towards Kerry and whatever poll you decided to believe did the same.

you are missing the point

Some see GOP voting tsunami coming | WashingtonExaminer.com

"Democrats are cannibalizing their high-propensity voters in advance of election day to get stories that they are winning," said a GOP analyst. "But in effect they are stealing from Peter, or Election Day, to pay Paul, or early voting."

stories are out there that the Dems have got their people to the polls early, so come election day

when the electronic ( no paper trail) votes skew GOP, well ,there will be your tsunami

as for 2004, if they tipped the scale for the GOP to get a one state win (Ohio), 2012 will be easier, with the GOP more entrenched.

this election will be easier

 

[the iron horse]

? Stats, please.

You left out from the quote what I thought was my best line.

"Plus, the mood of the nation I'm feeling is like
a "Jimmy Carter" kind of thud."

You can search the stats for yourself.

I know some might give a different stat, but Rommney, I think,
will win next Tuesday.



One day, I hope, a Libertarian will win

 

[deep]

All that would do is have Romney win the popular vote but lose the Electoral College. 7 Ohio polls were released today. Obama lead by at least 2 in all of them.

Also, Dick Morris A republican friend sent me a blog post he made about Obama pulling out of VA, NC and FL because he was losing badly. Um, Obama is concentrating on Ohio because he wins Ohio and given what is happening in NV, PA, WI he wins the election.

that 2 points in Ohio, well within the margin of error, second Jill Stein Green Party will take votes, also, a lot of Ohio is electronic with no paper trail, the winner is in the secret software programming. Who can challenge the final number they spit out???

 

[Diemen]

You can search the stats for yourself.

You're the one making the unsubstantiated claim that early voting favors Romney.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I think Romney's going to win too

No stats, just a feeling

I'm not the Long Island medium

 

[Pearl]

You can search the stats for yourself.

Why can't you show the stats yourself? That's a little rude to tell someone to go search when they asked you for the stats.

 

[Irvine511]

You can search the stats for yourself.

no, that's your job when you make a claim.

 

[PhilsFan]

You left out from the quote what I thought was my best line.

"Plus, the mood of the nation I'm feeling is like
a "Jimmy Carter" kind of thud."

You can search the stats for yourself.

I know some might give a different stat, but Rommney, I think,
will win next Tuesday.



One day, I hope, a Libertarian will win

Translation: "You left out my stats: a gut feeling. Because that is the only way I know how to operate. I operate outside of the realm of facts."

 

[deep]

this poll is one more thing to add into the mix

Fox News poll: Race for the White House a dead heat | Fox News


I have to say that this election really is a toss up,


there is no one than can say there is good information to support that either candidate will surely win,
a person can have gut feelings, say the trend supports Romney, but those are not enough to say he will win.

of course if someone goes on the record and their guy wins by 5+ points ,they can take a bow.


part of me does not understand people that do not vote, sure most of us are in one of the states that won't swing, but our votes will be added into the national tally of over 100,000,000? voters, don't you want to be part of that?

 

[maycocksean]

I voted!

 

[indra]

I voted!

Me too!
In the same state.

 

[U2DMfan]

You're the one making the unsubstantiated claim that early voting favors Romney.

Karl Rove is generally detestable but not known for spewing bullshit on the air like Dick Morris. That said, Rove gave the Ohio stats on O'Reilly last night.

He said (paraphrased) that votes are not specifically counted for either candidate (in other words, there is not an early 'leader') but that the votes are categorized as Republican or Democrat by voter. In other words, if you are a registered Republican voting for Obama (or vice versa - a registered Dem voting for Romney) you are only being counted in the early voting tallies as what you are registered as. X Republican and Y Democrats have voted...

Early voting in Ohio has shown that Democrats are down about 170K from 2008 and that Republican are up about 70K from 2008 (comparisons of early voting in 2008 vs 2012) meaning the difference between the early voting (in those raw comparisons) is about 230-240K and the margin with which Obama won Ohio by in 2008 was around 250K. Whatever the case, I remember Rove spinning that they were about even. So he was using facts but just how significant those facts are is the question.

So to sum it up, they are saying that early Republican turnout is smashing early Dem turnout in Ohio. I don't know about the other states but this is really the one that matters. And these numbers are general (only my recollection after seeing it said once by Rove on the air) but you get the idea.

 

[U2DMfan]

The real question is - and I think this is legitimate - is something else Rove was talking about. Once again, I want to remind people how much I detest Karl Rove but that doesn't mean that the man isn't reliable when it comes to this sort of stuff. He's not known as a liar on these sort of things, he's just an immoral liar and mudslinger and character assassin on those sort of things.

But the question is - the voting sampling. Forget Dickhead Morris and "landslides"...that's keying in on the wrong issue. Rove used the new CBS/NYT poll as an example.

The poll takers are using 2008 data to frame their 2012 polls.
Democrat turnout was up 8 points in Ohio, just say 54-46, in 2008. When we know that Dem turnout (self-described Dems) was/were at an all-time high. So when CBS/NYT do their polls in Ohio in 2012, they are sampling 54% Democrats and 46% Republicans based on the 2008 results. And all of the polling agencies are doing this sort of thing. And Rove (and unfortunately Dick Morris) and most Republicans are saying that this is why the polls (not only in Ohio but in other swing states) are going to be so off the mark.

And you have to admit - there is some logic to that idea.
How much significance will it have? I have no idea.
But if Romney wins, I won't be shocked at all.

 

[U2DMfan]

Lastly, I know it rankles the feathers of the more ideological Left among us - but check Rasmussen this close to election day. Romney +2. And look at the margin for the three Presidents that lost the popular vote but won the electoral college.

In 2000, Bush lost the popular vote by 0.5% in 2000 but won the electoral college.
In 1888, Cleveland lost the popular vote by less than 1% but Harrison won the EC.

If Romney wins by a full 1% or 2% or even 3% there is little precedent (it happened once) for a candidate that lost the popular vote by 1% or greater to be elected President. Hayes beat Tilden in the 1876 EC but lost the popular vote by 4%.

All I'm saying is - this election is a toss up. Don't believe anyone that tells you different.

 

[mikal]

Lastly, I know it rankles the feathers of the more ideological Left among us - but check Rasmussen this close to election day. Romney +2. And look at the margin for the three Presidents that lost the popular vote but won the electoral college.

In 2000, Bush lost the popular vote by 0.5% in 2000 but won the electoral college.
In 1888, Cleveland lost the popular vote by less than 1% but Harrison won the EC.

If Romney wins by a full 1% or 2% or even 3% there is little precedent (it happened once) for a candidate that lost the popular vote by 1% or greater to be elected President. Hayes beat Tilden in the 1876 EC but lost the popular vote by 4%.

All I'm saying is - this election is a toss up. Don't believe anyone that tells you different.

Agreed, but I wouldn't use Rasmussen as the best example. Most polls show either a tie or 1% difference either way, while Obama is still looking very strong in the swing state polls, especially in the last two days.

 

[anitram]

The poll takers are using 2008 data to frame their 2012 polls.
Democrat turnout was up 8 points in Ohio, just say 54-46, in 2008. When we know that Dem turnout (self-described Dems) was/were at an all-time high. So when CBS/NYT do their polls in Ohio in 2012, they are sampling 54% Democrats and 46% Republicans based on the 2008 results. And all of the polling agencies are doing this sort of thing. And Rove (and unfortunately Dick Morris) and most Republicans are saying that this is why the polls (not only in Ohio but in other swing states) are going to be so off the mark.

RCP has a pretty good summary of how much this is actually relevant:

CBS/NYT/Quinnipiac Swing State Polls & Party ID | RealClearPolitics

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Mayor Bloomberg just endorsed Obama. Two of the reasons he cited were Sandy response and climate change.

Rather late in the game so that's kind of strange. He also mentioned Romney having the health care in MA then being against Obamacare.

 

[deep]

that new map has NH for Obama putting him at 290, meaning he could lose Ohio and still win

if Colo, VI do go for Obama, this will not be remembered as a close election


we will end up in re-counts and perhaps the courts on some congressional seats, and perhaps a senate race, too.

 

[deep]

Mayor Bloomberg just endorsed Obama. Two of the reasons he cited were Sandy response and climate change.

Rather late in the game so that's kind of strange. He also mentioned Romney having the health care in MA then being against Obamacare.

ah, one of those undecideds I keep hearing about

 

[Irvine511]

i think it will be less close than people think.

if the polls are wrong, then Romney runs the table and gets over 300EV.

if the polls are right, Obama repeats 2008 without Indiana and maybe Florida.

i don't see a squeaker like 2000 or 2004. my prediction is the winner will get over 300 EV.

and i know that because i feel it in my gut. i don't need anything else.

 

[anitram]

I'm with you Irvine. I think there are a lot of people with all sorts of motivations to make this sound like it's closer than it is - look no further than the media.

Though I think NC will also go to Romney.

 

[deep]

300 + or - means the election will not be argued very much

I hate the EC so much, it is stupid and flawed from its inception.
I hope Obama wins EC and loses the popular vote by 2-3,000,000.
I know that would make his second term more difficult, but does it matter? A vocal minority labels him a Kenyan born, sworn communist, and many of these people are elected officials.

I would just like to see the EC go the hell away. There is no credible, rational argument for it.

 

[anitram]

I would just like to see, the nut jobs, saying the EC is a communist plot to keep an honestly elected American out of the white house.

This would immediately be muzzled by the GOP. I think it would be an interesting outcome but no way would they allow their people to rail against the EC. It's the only way that they still have any chance of getting elected.

Get rid of the EC and the GOP wouldn't get elected to the presidency for a generation, or two? Short of completely changing their platform.

 

[deep]

That has been the GOP thinking since the 2000 election.

But if Obama can lose by 3.000,000 votes and still win the EC by getting narrower wins in EC vote rich states, especially with the growing Latino vote, they may rethink that concept. Which state or states deliver the most GOP votes every election cycle? Those states can be mined for even more votes. You can't really get any more votes from Utah or Wyoming.

 

[Irvine511]

Obama will likely lose NC, agreed. and i think the popular vote will be closer than the EC suggests.

but i think he wins VA and OH. already, 3 Obama people have knocked on my door to ask me if i've voted yet and i pass by people handing out fliers on where to vote and what day and what you will need. they seem *very* well organized.