2008 U.S. Presidential Campaign Discussion Thread-Part 11

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Just for the hell of it, since I'm home sick, I watched most of the Mike Huckabee show on Fox tonight. I was curious to see what Fox was saying at this point, with an Obama victory in sight. They had on Eagleberger and Bolton as "expert" speakers. Bolton obviously was pro McCain as to be expected, and so was Eagleberger. But the latter was so incoherant and ridiculous that even Huckabee was cutting him off (or it was done in the editing room). Saying things like "Obama is a charlaton" without any justification at all.
Horrible, horrible people. I am sure theat race is an issue here.
The main message of the show was finances. Huckabee left it off with the same kind of message of fear that the Bush admisnistration has fed us for the last eight years, saying something like "Are YOU going to be allright the day after the election" or some bullshit.....
Ugg. I want the last hour of my life back.
It's amazing how hard it is for racists to accept a black man (well, half black) will be president......
 
Personally, I think I'll be fine regardless to be quite honest.
But that doesn't mean that because I won't be directly affected millions of others won't.
United States citizens are all part of a larger picture, and yet still retain our individual realities. I for one am willing to give up any kind of self-protection in order to benefit the most in this country, and our standing in the world.

Anyway, Huckabee is a game show host douchebag.
 
My friend & I were talking about election day. We were wondering if we'd be breaking out the champagne or something to celebrate a victory, or getting so plastered in order to deal with the reality if, god forbid, our candidate does not win. I better pick up a split of champagne or something for Tuesday :pray:
 
I plan on pulling an all-nighter on Tuesday....
I've never done that before...I've always stayed up until 2am or so and then gone to bed, only to wake in the morning to find out who's been elected.
Not this time; I will have a steady flow of alcohol going from 9pm (when I get home from work) until the announcement is made....even if it's 8am.....
I know I won't sleep; so I'm preparing for a long night of anxiety.....
 
I haven't decided what I'm doing, I'll probably go to one of the two parties that are happening.

Unfortunately I have to and I mean HAVE TO be up at 7 am the next day, so it will probably be a 4 hr sleep or so, thankfully I'm actually used to those.
 
He was actually funny.....too bad that's a side of him we haven't sen in 4 months.

Too little, too late.
 
Several gay friends and wealthy gay donors to Senator Barack Obama have asked him over the years why, as a matter of logic and fairness, he opposes same-sex marriage even though he has condemned old miscegenation laws that would have barred his black father from marrying his white mother.

The difference, Mr. Obama has told them, is religion.

As a Christian — he is a member of the United Church of Christ — Mr. Obama believes that marriage is a sacred union, a blessing from God, and one that is intended for a man and a woman exclusively, according to these supporters and Obama campaign advisers. While he does not favor laws that ban same-sex marriage, and has said he is “open to the possibility” that his views may be “misguided,” he does not support it and is not inclined to fight for it, his advisers say.

Senator John McCain also opposes same-sex marriage, but unlike Mr. Obama’s, his position is influenced by generational and cultural experiences rather than a religious conviction, McCain advisers say.

But Mr. McCain, reflecting his strongly held views on federalism, has also broken with many Republican senators and joined Mr. Obama and most Democrats to oppose amending the United States Constitution to ban same-sex marriage, arguing that the issue should be left to the states to decide.

The candidates have very different positions, though, when it comes to the state level. Mr. Obama opposes amending state constitutions to define marriage as a heterosexual institution, describing such proposals as discriminatory. Mr. McCain, however, has been active in such efforts: On the most expensive and heated battle to ban same-sex marriage this year, a proposed constitutional amendment in California known as Proposition 8, he has endorsed the measure and sharply criticized a State Supreme Court ruling that granted same-sex couples the right to marry.

Mr. Obama has spoken out against Proposition 8, and opponents of the measure hope that a huge Democratic turnout in California on Nov. 4 — and, possibly, depressed turnout among conservatives — will help defeat it. At the same time, some Democrats say that if many socially conservative blacks and Hispanics turn out to support Mr. Obama, but oppose same-sex marriage, the amendment’s chances for passage could improve.

While same-sex marriage is not expected to play a consequential role in the elections on Tuesday — unlike in 2004, when a proposed ban in Ohio was widely seen as hurting the Democratic presidential nominee that year, Senator John Kerry — passions remain high for voters on both sides. Some gay Democrats had hoped, in particular, that Mr. Obama would extend his message of unity and tolerance to their fight on the issue.

“Barack is an intellectual guy, and I know he has been thinking through his position on gay marriage, and what is fair for all people,” said Michael Bauer, an openly gay fund-raiser for Mr. Obama and an adviser to his campaign on gay issues. “But he is just not there with us on this issue.”

Some gay allies of Mr. Obama thought, during a televised Democratic forum in Los Angeles in August 2007, that he might come out in favor of same-sex marriage, after he was asked if his position supporting civil unions but not same-sex marriage was tantamount to “separate but equal.”

“Look, when my parents got married in 1961, it would have been illegal for them to be married in a number of states in the South,” Mr. Obama said. “So, obviously, this is something that I understand intimately. It’s something that I care about.”

At that point, he veered onto legal rights, saying that — both in 1961 and today — it was more important to fight for nondiscrimination laws and employment protections than for marriage.

Mr. Obama has spoken only occasionally about his religious beliefs influencing his views on same-sex marriage, and he has indicated that he is wary of linking his religion to policy decisions.

“I’m a Christian,” Mr. Obama said on a radio program in his 2004 race for Senate. “And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman.”

In one of his books, “The Audacity of Hope,” however, Mr. Obama describes a conversation with a lesbian supporter who became upset when he cited his religious views to explain his opposition.

“She felt that by bringing religion into the equation, I was suggesting that she, and others like her, were somehow bad people,” he wrote. “I felt bad, and told her so in a return call. As I spoke to her, I was reminded that no matter how much Christians who oppose homosexuality may claim that they hate the sin but love the sinner, such a judgment inflicts pain on good people.”

“And I was reminded,” Mr. Obama added, “that it is my obligation, not only as an elected official in a pluralistic society but also as a Christian, to remain open to the possibility that my unwillingness to support gay marriage is misguided, just as I cannot claim infallibility in my support of abortion rights.”
Click to expand...
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/01/us/politics/01marriage.html?em

Barack Obama, a liar or a religious bigot?

He has given statements which make him seem like an unbeliever, I would lean towards the whole religious objection to gay marriage being a lie, calculated to be sure but probably necessary, same goes for sticking with Reverend Wright, it was only poor judgement when Wright became a liability.
 
A_Wanderer said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/01/us/politics/01marriage.html?em

Barack Obama, a liar or a religious bigot?

He has given statements which make him seem like an unbeliever, I would lean towards the whole religious objection to gay marriage being a lie, calculated to be sure but probably necessary, same goes for sticking with Reverend Wright, it was only poor judgement when Wright became a liability.
Click to expand...

I don't believe he is a Muslim or a Christian

It seems he chose Wright's church for political reasons

when it became a political liablity he disassociated


he is against Gay Marriage for political reasons, not religious reasons.
 
Statistically speaking American politics must be crammed with atheists and agnostics, more so than the general population, Obama may well extoll the benefits of religious communities for social welfare but by championing faith based initiatives he really brings those ideas into the mainstream when they should be off the table.

Calling him an atheist or an unbeliever feels like an insult at the man, it isn't nor should it be, if more people who are atheists or agnostics openly hold political office it could undercut the negative attitudes (fostered in part by the "war on Christmas" type stories which are inevitably the only times secularists get into the papers). Obama seems to keep his beliefs ambiguous and low key and makes a point of not infusing them into every position, thats fine (for similar reasons I could not vote McCain / Palin if I had the chance).

Religious faith in political candidates is not a virtue, intelligence and personality can be. The religious left, who "retake" Christianity for social justice just turn me right off. I have no problem being bigoted towards the injection of faith into politics, because at the end of the day I am not supporting discrimination or using taxpayers funds to support supernaturalism.
 
deep said:
he is against Gay Marriage for political reasons, not religious reasons.
Click to expand...

That's been my impression, too. Although honestly, while I would be very disappointed if he were in fact against it for religious reasons, it wouldn't be enough for me to go vote for McCain.

I'm taking vacation days Tuesday and Wednesday. I figured a few months ago it was pointless for me to be at work, since all I'd want to do is be glued to CNN.com or something. I doubt I'd be able to stay up all night, but I suppose it will depend on how close it is when 11 or 12 rolls around on the west coast.

I am hopeful I will get to spend Wednesday celebrating.
 
I just wanted to step in and say that I think it's a bit unfair to question whether or not Obama is actually a Christian. It's just irksome when people criticize the Christian Right (which I do on a regular basis, I have no problem with that) and wish that Christians would behave differently in the political arena. Yet, when have a Christian who comes along that does live his/her faith differently in the public eye we question their beliefs. There are a lot of us Christians (myself included), who are intellectual, reasonable, and proponents of both theology and political policy that aren't typically held by the majority of evangelical or mainstream American Christianity. There's no reason to doubt that Obama's faith isn't genuine. As for the gay marriage, example, I too would be disappointed if he disagreed on religious grounds, but, I personally feel that most politicians disagree on political grounds. Frankly, I'd be willing to bet that Bush supports gay marriage in his heart of hearts, but could never say so. It's disappointing, but it's reality, and it'll take time to change.
 
U2isthebest said:
I just wanted to step in and say that I think it's a bit unfair to question whether or not Obama is actually a Christian. It's just irksome when people criticize the Christian Right (which I do on a regular basis, I have no problem with that) and wish that Christians would behave differently in the political arena. Yet, when have a Christian who comes along that does live his/her faith differently in the public eye we question their beliefs. There are a lot of us Christians (myself included), who are intellectual, reasonable, and proponents of both theology and political policy that aren't typically held by the majority of evangelical or mainstream American Christianity. There's no reason to doubt that Obama's faith isn't genuine. As for the gay marriage, example, I too would be disappointed if he disagreed on religious grounds, but, I personally feel that most politicians disagree on political grounds. .
Click to expand...

I agree with everything you say, except this:

U2isthebest said:
Frankly, I'd be willing to bet that Bush supports gay marriage in his heart of hearts, but could never say so.
Click to expand...

I would have a real hard time believeing he actually would support it at all.
 
Just saying I voted? No need of showing identity? :hmm:
I'm not a great fan of Starbucks, but free coffee is always welcome. :)
 
On another note, I have been listening to this with tears in my eyes

I see no changes all I see is racist faces
misplaced hate makes disgrace to races
We under I wonder what it takes to make this
one better place, let's erase the wasted
Take the evil out the people they'll be acting right
'cause both black and white is smokin' crack tonight
and only time we chill is when we kill each other
it takes skill to be real, time to heal each other
And although it seems heaven sent
We ain't ready, to see a black President, uhh
It ain't a secret don't conceal the fact
the penitentiary's packed, and it's filled with blacks
But some things will never change
try to show another way but you stayin' in the dope game
Now tell me what's a mother to do
bein' real don't appeal to the brother in you
You gotta operate the easy way
"I made a G today" But you made it in a sleazy way
sellin' crack to the kid. " I gotta get paid,"
Well hey, well that's the way it is
Click to expand...
If 2pac were still here, maybe he'd have rewritten it for Tuesday.

But Nas did a pretty sweet job....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j7s2Kcbe9o&feature=related
 
Obama and Clinton reach common ground - Carrie Budoff Brown and Glenn Thrush - Politico.com


Obama and Clinton reach common ground

GARY, Ind. — While the relationship between Barack Obama and the Clintons remains complicated, associates in both camps say the dynamic has improved dramatically in recent months.

...

The former president was a bit wary before his first private meeting with Obama in September. Even though he and Obama had chatted amicably about politics a few times, the former president expected the get-together to focus on the bloodless, nuts-and-bolts questions about strategy in the homestretch of a presidential campaign. He was in for a surprise, according to a person familiar with the meeting.

“Obama had really done his homework and was well-briefed” about how to approach the mercurial Bill Clinton, the person said. “There was very little talk about politics. He basically asked, ‘What’s it like to be president? What should the next president do?’ ... Instead of talking about the eight battleground states, they talked about the world, and that was really smart.”

That lunch meeting Sept. 11 in Harlem marked the beginning of the thaw, since aides have learned to know when Clinton likes someone: After a meeting, he might remark, “He’s really smart” or, “He’s impressive” — often meaning his companion responded positively to his advice. After the Obama confab, he said both, according to people familiar with the situation.

The two aren't best friends, but they talk more often than either side has previously disclosed. An Obama aide said they speak "regularly," while a source close to Bill Clinton said they talk two or three times a week to swap strategic ideas.

...

Hillary Clinton’s relationship with her former rival is still constantly evolving.

After it became clear her in the spring that her comeback against Obama would come up short, Hillary Clinton plopped down into the front seat of her campaign plane and shared her thoughts on the general election with a handful of wrung-out staffers.

Clinton, whose relationship with Obama was still tense and tentative at that moment, professed no great affection or admiration for Obama, whom she regarded as less qualified than herself. But she would support him, body and soul, she said, because she was so terrified by the prospect of McCain sitting in the Oval Office. And that was before the credit markets crashed, setting off a domino effect on the U.S. economy.

“John McCain’s my friend; I really like him,” she said, according to a person who was within earshot. “But there’s just no way we can let him be president.”

Clinton’s relationship with Obama has improved markedly since then (although associates say she occasionally betrays her belief that she’s be a better candidate), but friends and associates say her manic work on behalf of her longtime Democratic rival is motivated not so much by Obamaphilia but, rather, by a bone-deep fear of McCain.

“She’s convinced he would destroy the country,” said a source close to the former first lady.

Her impression of McCain has gone even farther south since the troubles on Wall Street surfaced a few weeks ago. When supporters call to complain about Obama, as some still do, she invariably regales them with a polite but steely description of how McCain will drive the country off an economic cliff, people close to her say.

...

An aide to Sen. Clinton said she has helped raised more than $10 million for the Democratic ticket and held “well over 75 events and activities,” which have included donor calls, conference calls, media interviews and fundraisers. She’s also building up political chits around the country, assisting 80 House and Senate candidates in 30 states, and she has given more than $735,000 to various candidates through her political action committee, HillPAC.

Bill Clinton has stumped for Obama from rural Nevada to suburban Florida. He has hosted fundraisers in Texas and Georgia and stood in for Democratic vice presidential nominee Joe Biden at three more in New York when Biden's mother-in-law died.

...

Obama chief strategist David Axelrod said he has seen an evolution in their interactions.

“When you compete as hard as these two competed for as long as they did, you don’t just sort of say, ‘Well, that was that’ and lock arms and move forward without any feelings,” Axelrod said. “What I saw last week was just a real ease of comfort between them and a strong sense of collaboration.”

The former president took off from Kissimmee and headed to Ohio, where he drummed up the party base Thursday in the Democratic strongholds of Toledo and Youngstown.

His wife, meanwhile, was prepared to follow him and Obama through the weekend into three states that will determine the outcome Tuesday: Ohio, Florida and Virginia.

“I have no question they are giving us their full effort,” Axelrod said.
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VintagePunk said:
Wow, it's incredible hearing what you guys go through to vote. Here, I've never heard of registration hassles or people being turned away (although in our election earlier this month they changed the rules about what kinds of ID were acceptable. It was well publicized, though, so people had plenty of opportunity to make sure they brought the correct ID), and any time I've gone to vote, no matter which level of government was holding elections, I've never spent more than 5 or 10 minutes at a polling station. I can't even imagine standing in line for hours. Do they make exceptions for the elderly or the infirm? What do they do?
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I posted this a few days ago in the I Voted Early thread, but I think the topic bears repeating. I just saw a piece on CNN regarding calls made to their voting problems hotline, and several of the calls they just highlighted focused on senior citizens who had waited in line to vote for several hours, found they still had several more hours to go, so they finally left because they are not physically capable of standing for several hours. They did say that a few polling stations seem to have made provisions for people in this position, but that many don't.

This is an outrage and something I'm surprised we're not hearing more about. I'd expect something like this to occur in a developing nation, or nations with sketchy election processes, but not in the US.
 
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