2008 U.S. Presidential Campaign Discussion Thread-Part 11

[Varitek]

Republicans hire mercenaries for ground war against Barack Obama - Times Online

McCain campaign has hired temp workers to canvass for them, a sign of desperation, and a sign of the desperation of some Americans for jobs is that he has hired some Obama supporters who just need to pay the rent.

 

[U2Fanatic4ever]

For your Monday afternoon enjoyment and amusement, I give you this electoral map. (Fear not - it's non-partisan!)

Op-Art - The Electoral Map - Interactive Feature - NYTimes.com

My personal favorite is Alabama.

great find!


i like Lousiana and Washington State.. FTW.

 

[coolian2]

That's it, I'm moving to Vancouver (WA).

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Assassination plot targeting Obama disrupted

By Lara Jakes Jordan, Associated Press Writer | October 27, 2008

WASHINGTON --Law enforcement agents have broken up a plot by two neo-Nazi skinheads to assassinate Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama and shoot or decapitate 88 black people, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco Firearms and Explosives said Monday.

In court records unsealed Monday in U.S. District Court in Jackson, Tenn., federal agents said they disrupted plans to rob a gun store and target a predominantly African-American high school in a murder spree that was to begin in Tennessee. Agents said the skinheads did not identify the school by name.

Jim Cavanaugh, special agent in charge of ATF's Nashville field office, said the two men planned to kill 88 people, including 14 African-Americans by beheading. The numbers 88 and 14 are symbolic in the white supremacist community.

The men also sought to go on a national killing spree after the Tennessee murders, with Obama as its final target, Cavanaugh told The Associated Press.

"They said that would be their last, final act -- that they would attempt to kill Sen. Obama," Cavanaugh said. "They didn't believe they would be able to do it, but that they would get killed trying."

An Obama spokeswoman traveling with the senator in Pennsylvania had no immediate comment.

The men, Daniel Cowart, 20, of Bells, Tenn., and Paul Schlesselman 18, of Helena-West Helena, Ark., are being held without bond. Agents seized a rifle, a sawed-off shotgun and three pistols from the men when they were arrested. Authorities alleged the two men were preparing to break into a gun shop to steal more.

The two men were arrested Oct. 22 by the Crockett County, Tenn., Sheriff's Office. "Once we arrested the defendants and suspected they had violated federal law, we immediately contacted federal authorities," said Crockett County Sheriff Troy Klyce.

Attorney Joe Byrd, who has been hired to represent Cowart, did not immediately return a call seeking comment Monday. Messages left on two phone numbers listed under Cowart's name were not immediately returned.

No telephone number for Schlesselman in Helena-West Helena could be found immediately.

Cowart and Schlesselman are charged with possessing an unregistered firearm, conspiring to steal firearms from a federally licensed gun dealer, and threatening a candidate for president.

The investigation is continuing, and more charges are possible, Cavanaugh said.

The court records say Cowart and Schlesselman also bought nylon rope and ski masks to use in a robbery or home invasion to fund their spree, during which they allegedly planned to go from state to state and kill people.

For the Obama plot, the legal documents show, Cowart and Schlesselman "planned to drive their vehicle as fast as they could toward Obama shooting at him from the windows."

"Both individuals stated they would dress in all white tuxedos and wear top hats during the assassination attempt," the court complaint states. "Both individuals further stated they knew they would and were willing to die during this attempt."

Cavanaugh said there's no evidence -- so far -- that others were willing to assist Cowart and Schlesselman with the plot.

He said authorities took the threats very seriously.

"They seemed determined to do it," Cavanaugh said. "Even if they were just to try it, it would be a trail of tears around the South."

The court documents say the two men met about a month ago on the Internet and found common ground in their shared "white power" and "skinhead" philosophy.

The numbers 14 and 88 are symbols in skinhead culture, referring to a 14-word phrase attributed to an imprisoned white supremacist: "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children" and to the eighth letter of the alphabet, H. Two "8"s or "H"s stand for "Heil Hitler."

Helena-West Helena, on the Mississippi River in east Arkansas' Delta, is in one of the nation's poorest regions, trailing even parts of Appalachia in its standard of living. Police Chief Fred Fielder said he had never heard of Schlesselman.

However, the reported threat of attacking a school filled with black students worried Fielder. Helena-West Helena, with a population of 12,200, is 66 percent black. "Predominantly black school, take your pick," he said.

 

[coolian2]

Assassination plot targeting Obama disrupted

By Lara Jakes Jordan, Associated Press Writer | October 27, 2008

WASHINGTON --Law enforcement agents have broken up a plot by two neo-Nazi skinheads to assassinate Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama and shoot or decapitate 88 black people, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco Firearms and Explosives said Monday.

In court records unsealed Monday in U.S. District Court in Jackson, Tenn., federal agents said they disrupted plans to rob a gun store and target a predominantly African-American high school in a murder spree that was to begin in Tennessee. Agents said the skinheads did not identify the school by name.

Jim Cavanaugh, special agent in charge of ATF's Nashville field office, said the two men planned to kill 88 people, including 14 African-Americans by beheading. The numbers 88 and 14 are symbolic in the white supremacist community.

The men also sought to go on a national killing spree after the Tennessee murders, with Obama as its final target, Cavanaugh told The Associated Press.

"They said that would be their last, final act -- that they would attempt to kill Sen. Obama," Cavanaugh said. "They didn't believe they would be able to do it, but that they would get killed trying."

An Obama spokeswoman traveling with the senator in Pennsylvania had no immediate comment.

The men, Daniel Cowart, 20, of Bells, Tenn., and Paul Schlesselman 18, of Helena-West Helena, Ark., are being held without bond. Agents seized a rifle, a sawed-off shotgun and three pistols from the men when they were arrested. Authorities alleged the two men were preparing to break into a gun shop to steal more.

The two men were arrested Oct. 22 by the Crockett County, Tenn., Sheriff's Office. "Once we arrested the defendants and suspected they had violated federal law, we immediately contacted federal authorities," said Crockett County Sheriff Troy Klyce.

Attorney Joe Byrd, who has been hired to represent Cowart, did not immediately return a call seeking comment Monday. Messages left on two phone numbers listed under Cowart's name were not immediately returned.

No telephone number for Schlesselman in Helena-West Helena could be found immediately.

Cowart and Schlesselman are charged with possessing an unregistered firearm, conspiring to steal firearms from a federally licensed gun dealer, and threatening a candidate for president.

The investigation is continuing, and more charges are possible, Cavanaugh said.

The court records say Cowart and Schlesselman also bought nylon rope and ski masks to use in a robbery or home invasion to fund their spree, during which they allegedly planned to go from state to state and kill people.

For the Obama plot, the legal documents show, Cowart and Schlesselman "planned to drive their vehicle as fast as they could toward Obama shooting at him from the windows."

"Both individuals stated they would dress in all white tuxedos and wear top hats during the assassination attempt," the court complaint states. "Both individuals further stated they knew they would and were willing to die during this attempt."

Cavanaugh said there's no evidence -- so far -- that others were willing to assist Cowart and Schlesselman with the plot.

He said authorities took the threats very seriously.

"They seemed determined to do it," Cavanaugh said. "Even if they were just to try it, it would be a trail of tears around the South."

The court documents say the two men met about a month ago on the Internet and found common ground in their shared "white power" and "skinhead" philosophy.

The numbers 14 and 88 are symbols in skinhead culture, referring to a 14-word phrase attributed to an imprisoned white supremacist: "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children" and to the eighth letter of the alphabet, H. Two "8"s or "H"s stand for "Heil Hitler."

Helena-West Helena, on the Mississippi River in east Arkansas' Delta, is in one of the nation's poorest regions, trailing even parts of Appalachia in its standard of living. Police Chief Fred Fielder said he had never heard of Schlesselman.

However, the reported threat of attacking a school filled with black students worried Fielder. Helena-West Helena, with a population of 12,200, is 66 percent black. "Predominantly black school, take your pick," he said.

Explain how this is a big deal. Seriously. Some stupid kids had a stupid idea that was going to go.....nowhere.

 

[BVS]

Explain how this is a big deal. Seriously. Some stupid kids had a stupid idea that was going to go.....nowhere.

You don't think two kids with guns and the will to kill black people isn't scary?

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I wouldn't exactly call it funny either

 

[coolian2]

You don't think two kids with guns and the will to kill black people isn't scary?

Naturally, it's scary. Neither is it funny. But they weren't going to get past the gun store, I was laughing at how the media is all over this story.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I think the media would be all over any alleged plots to assassinate any Presidential candidate.

Whether or not they could ever carry it out is not the issue, the issue is that they had such ideas

 

[coolian2]

People have these ideas all the time, the main reason the media is all over the smallest plot is because they can tick off an extra news value.

Some stupid kids plan to shoot up a school - page one news.
Some stupid kids plan to shoot up a school and mention Obama - stop the presses.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Yes the media loves sensational stories, but I think it should be reported. Skinheads exist and they do carry out violence that is motivated by racism. Racism kills.

 

[corianderstem]

That's it, I'm moving to Vancouver (WA).

There's not much special about Vancouver, WA. Although it's right across the river from Portland, OR, so there's that. But you might as well just move to Portland!

 

[coolian2]

Naturally it should be reported. But the Obama angle is being wildly overblown to the point of ridiculous. And I say this as a student studying for my principles (ha) of broadcast journalism exam...it's an extra box to tick to get people to read the story.

It's like me saying I'm going to rob a 7-11 and pee in John McCain's coffee, and the media reports it as a plot to poison John McCain.

Anyway, I'm going to stop now because I think we're going to end up arguing the importance of different parts of the story.

 

[coolian2]

There's not much special about Vancouver, WA. Although it's right across the river from Portland, OR, so there's that. But you might as well just move to Portland!

Yeah, but then you can't say you live in Vancouver, Canada....not that Vancouver.

Although who would want to live across the river from Americans?

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Christian right's mailings depict disastrous future under Obama
By Eric Gorski and Rachel Zoll, Associated Press
Terrorist strikes on four American cities. Russia rolling into Eastern Europe. Israel hit by a nuclear bomb. Gay marriage in every state. The end of the Boy Scouts.

All are plausible scenarios if Democrat Barack Obama is elected president, according to a new addition to the campaign conversation called "Letter from 2012 in Obama's America," produced by the conservative Christian group Focus on the Family Action.

The imagined look into the future is part of an escalation in rhetoric from Christian right activists who are trying to paint Obama in the worst possible terms as the campaign heads into the final stretch and polls show the Democrat ahead.

Although hard-edge attacks are common late in campaigns, the tenor of the strikes against Obama illustrate just how worried conservative Christian activists are about what should happen to their causes and influence if Democrats seize control of both Congress and the White House.

"It looks like, walks like, talks like and smells like desperation to me," said the Rev. Kirbyjon Caldwell of Houston, an Obama supporter who backed President Bush in the past two elections. The Methodist pastor called the 2012 letter "false and ridiculous." He said it showed that some Christian conservative leaders fear that Obama's faith-based appeals to voters are working.

Like other political advocacy groups, Christian right groups often raise worries about an election's consequences to mobilize voters. In the early 1980s, for example, direct mail from the Moral Majority warned that Congress would turn a blind eye to "smut peddlers" dangling pornography to children.

"Everyone uses fear in the last part of a campaign, but evangelicals are especially theologically prone to those sorts of arguments," said Clyde Wilcox, a Georgetown University political scientist. "There's a long tradition of predicting doom and gloom."

But the tone this election year is sharper than usual and the volume has turned up as Nov. 4 nears.

Steve Strang, publisher of Charisma magazine, a Pentecostal publication, titled one of his recent weekly e-mails to readers, "Life As We Know It Will End If Obama is Elected."

Strang said gay rights and abortion rights would be strengthened in an Obama administration, taxes would rise and "people who hate Christianity will be emboldened to attack our freedoms."

Separately, a group called the Christian Anti-Defamation Commission has posted a series of videos on its site and on YouTube called "7 Reasons Barack Obama is not a Christian."

The commission accuses Obama of "subtle diabolical deceit" in saying he is Christian, while he believes that people can be saved through other faiths.

But among the strongest pieces this year is Focus on the Family Action's letter which has been posted on the group's website and making the e-mail rounds. Signed by "A Christian from 2012," it claims a series of events could logically happen based on the group's interpretation of Obama's record, Democratic Party positions, recent court rulings and other trends.

Among the claims:

• A 6-3 liberal majority Supreme Court that results in rulings like one making gay marriage the law of the land and another forcing the Boy Scouts to "hire homosexual scoutmasters and allow them to sleep in tents with young boys." (In the imagined scenario, The Boy Scouts choose to disband rather than obey).

• A series of domestic and international disasters based on Obama's "reluctance to send troops overseas." That includes terrorist attacks on U.S. soil that kill hundreds, Russia occupying the Baltic states and Eastern European countries including Poland and the Czech Republic, and al-Qaeda overwhelming Iraq.

• Nationalized health care with long lines for surgery and no access to hospitals for people over 80.

The goal was to "articulate the big picture," said Carrie Gordon Earll, senior director of public policy for Focus on the Family Action. "If it is a doomsday picture, then it's a realistic picture," she said.

Obama favors abortion rights and supports civil unions for same-sex couples, but says states should make their own decisions about marriage. He said he would intensify diplomatic pressure on Iran over its nuclear ambitions and add troops in Afghanistan.

On taxes, Obama has proposed an increase on the 5% of taxpayers who make more than $250,000 a year and advocates cuts for those who make less. His health care plan calls for the government to subsidize coverage for millions of Americans who otherwise couldn't afford it.

One of the clear targets of this latest conservative Christian push against the Democrat is younger evangelicals who might be considering him. The letter posits that young evangelicals provide the margin that let Obama defeat John McCain. But Margaret Feinberg, a Denver-area evangelical author, predicted failure.

"Young evangelicals are tired — like most people at this point in the election — and rhetoric which is fear-based, strong-arms the listener, and states opinion as fact will only polarize rather than further the informed, balanced discussion that younger voters are hungry for," she said.

In an interview, Strang said there are fewer state ballot measures to motivate conservative voters this election year and that the financial meltdown is distracting some voters from the abortion issue. But he said a last-minute push by conservative Christians in 2004 was key to Bush's re-election and predicted they could play the same role in 2008.

Kim Conger, a political scientist at Iowa State University, said a late push for evangelical voters did help Bush in 2004, "but it is a very different thing than getting people excited about John McCain," even with Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as his vice presidential pick.

Phil Burress, head of the Ohio-based Citizens for Community Values, said the dynamics were quite different in 2004, when conservative Christians spent some energy calling Democrat John Kerry a flip-flopper but were mostly motivated by enthusiasm for George W. Bush.

Now, there is less excitement about McCain than fear of an Obama presidency, Burress said.

"This reminds me of when I was a school kid, when I had to go out in the hall and bury my head in my hands because of the atom bomb," he said.

 

[coolian2]

Christian right's mailings depict disastrous future under Obama

Meanwhile this is newsworthy because it's hilarious.

 

[corianderstem]

Yeah, but then you can't say you live in Vancouver, Canada....not that Vancouver.

Although who would want to live across the river from Americans?

Wait, what? The two Vancouvers aren't across from each other. Vancouver WA is along the southern border of the state, next to Oregon. Vancouver BC is the other way.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

 

[corianderstem]

Christian right's mailings depict disastrous future under Obama ... Terrorist strikes on four American cities. Russia rolling into Eastern Europe. Israel hit by a nuclear bomb. Gay marriage in every state. The end of the Boy Scouts.

Dogs and cats living together. Mass hysteria!

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

If Obama wins Cloris Leachman will win Dancing With The Stars

ARod and Madonna will marry and make all US citizens follow Kaballah

 

[coolian2]

Wait, what? The two Vancouvers aren't across from each other. Vancouver WA is along the southern border of the state, next to Oregon. Vancouver BC is the other way.

Ah, you see, I was originally replying to the electoral map featuring Washington State joining Canada.

 

[corianderstem]

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Right.

I knew that.

 

[Irvine511]

Dogs and cats living together. Mass hysteria!

you will have saved the lives of millions of registered voters.

 

[martha]

Yolland, you are my hero.

For clouding the issue with elitist facts.

 

[Tiger Edge]

Sad Trombone

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I love when he says "I don't know who is writing your questions". That has to be a Fox affiliate.

YouTube - Best. Interview. Evah! Barbara West vs. Joe Biden

 

[Utoo]

Honestly, I think that interview just shows what a mouthpiece that woman is. She doesn't even engage Biden--she doesn't respond to anything at all. All she does is read questions. What a tool. Biden, IMO, handles himself very well. Hell, even if I disagreed with what he says, I'd still think that woman was nothing but a mouthpiece. What terrible interviewing skills!

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Honestly, I think that interview just shows what a mouthpiece that woman is. She doesn't even engage Biden--she doesn't respond to anything at all. All she does is read questions. What a tool. Biden, IMO, handles himself very well. Hell, even if I disagreed with what he says, I'd still think that woman was nothing but a mouthpiece. What terrible interviewing skills!

Yes, I thought that was pretty funny too. To be fair, these regionals would only have one shot with the candidates and it only lasts a couple of minutes, so they would feel like they have to get as many Q’s in during that time as possible, but her style regardless is terrible, it’s like she won a competition to ask the questions and she’s got her 5 written down on a card and no matter what Biden says, she has no response, no understanding, just “Right, next question!” Especially noticeable when she (or whoever wrote the questions) is trying to be controversial. It’s not like they’re “Boxers or briefs? Coke or Pepsi?” questions.

Speaking of the media, I think Fox News are in the process of having a fairly serious collective mental breakdown.

I still love how they complain about the evil liberal mainstream media outlets being in the tank for Obama and how terrible this is for America, while presenting a Top 10 Reasons Why You Should Not Vote for Obama, all with a straight face.

Yet to see a Top 10 Reasons Why You Should Not Vote for McCain on CNN. Did I miss it?

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

It appears to be an ABC affiliate

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblo...

WFTV's Barbara West on her interview with Joe Biden: "I don't think I was rude or inconsiderate to him"

The Barack Obama campaign called Barbara West's interview with Sen. Joe Biden unprofessional and combative.

The veteran WFTV-Channel 9 anchor-reporter says she asked pointed questions and respects Sen. Biden, who is Sen. Obama's running mate.

In a call to me Friday evening, West (pictured) said of Biden: "I have a great deal of respect for him. I have a great deal of respect for Sen. Obama. We are given four minutes of a satellite window for these interviews. Four precious minutes. I got right down to it and, yes, I think I asked him some pointed questions. These are questions that are rolling about right now and questions that need to be asked. I don't think I was rude or inconsiderate to him. I think I was probing and maybe tough. I can't believe that in all of his years in politics, and all of his campaigning and such, that he hasn't run into some tough questions before. He's certainly up to it in giving good answers."

 

[Utoo]

The problem isn't that she was "tough." I don't think she really was. The problem is that she had such an obvious angle. What kind of question is "Are you embarrassed about ACORN...?" Seriously? Would any serious journalist ask about being embarrassed about ACORN, especially knowing the interviewee's stance on the subject?