2008 U.S. Presidential Campaign Discussion Thread-Part 11 - Page 39 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-29-2008, 11:22 PM   #571
ONE
love, blood, life
 
indra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,689
Local Time: 07:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
And it isn't at all what the word racism is understood to be nor how it is used socially.
Nor is it how it's defined.

And now I will cut and paste the definition of racism (because obviously someone has to):

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

link


ImOuttaControl, according to the definition of racism, your example does not qualify as racism. Are those kids lame, as yolland put it? Yep, but it does not rise -- or rather sink -- to the level of racism.
__________________

__________________
indra is offline  
Old 10-29-2008, 11:25 PM   #572
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,685
Local Time: 05:05 AM
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.




Tell me which one your theory fits under...
__________________

__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 10-29-2008, 11:27 PM   #573
Refugee
 
ImOuttaControl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Duluth, MN
Posts: 1,340
Local Time: 05:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by indra View Post
Nor is it how it's defined.

And now I will cut and paste the definition of racism (because obviously someone has to):

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

link


ImOuttaControl, according to the definition of racism, your example does not qualify as racism. Are those kids lame, as yolland put it? Yep, but it does not rise -- or rather sink -- to the level of racism.

Because a dictionary says it, it must be so? What does common sense say? Common Sense, that's what I'm about. If a white person in Kentucky votes for McCain simply because he's white, that's racism to me. If a black person in Chicago votes for Obama simply because he's black, that's racism.

I view racism as judging someone according to their race, rather than the "content of their character." Luckily, I know I'd have the good doctor to agree with me.
__________________
ImOuttaControl is offline  
Old 10-29-2008, 11:32 PM   #574
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
purpleoscar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: In right wing paranoia
Posts: 7,597
Local Time: 04:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar View Post
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.




Tell me which one your theory fits under...
Dictionary: reverse discrimination

n.
Discrimination against members of a dominant or majority group, especially when resulting from policies established to correct discrimination against members of a minority or disadvantaged group.

Is that good enough for you?
__________________
purpleoscar is offline  
Old 10-29-2008, 11:34 PM   #575
Refugee
 
ImOuttaControl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Duluth, MN
Posts: 1,340
Local Time: 05:05 AM
Please tell me...would you be arguing the same position if we were talking about McCain having massive support among whites and among some (maybe few) blacks who think he should be elected "because he's white?"

In my original posts I talked about some of my students saying they were voting Obama because "it's time we had a black president." I quoted Dr. King. I said that racism under any circumstance is unacceptable.

I'm franky incredibly suprised that there is any arguement of me saying this on this forum...it saddens me.

I'm not attacking your candidate!!! I'm saying that it's sad that race still plays a role in our elections and that race is benefitting Obama in some areas and hurting him in others.
__________________
ImOuttaControl is offline  
Old 10-29-2008, 11:36 PM   #576
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Lila64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: ♥Set List Lane♥
Posts: 52,710
Local Time: 04:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOFO View Post
OBAMA!!!!










sorry.......had to be done.

In case the sentiment was lost

I thought Obama's ad was great
__________________
Lila64 is offline  
Old 10-29-2008, 11:37 PM   #577
ONE
love, blood, life
 
indra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,689
Local Time: 07:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImOuttaControl View Post
Because a dictionary says it, it must be so? What does common sense say? Common Sense, that's what I'm about. If a white person in Kentucky votes for McCain simply because he's white, that's racism to me. If a black person in Chicago votes for Obama simply because he's black, that's racism.

I view racism as judging someone according to their race, rather than the "content of their character." Luckily, I know I'd have the good doctor to agree with me.
So you determine the definition of words? Okey dokey then.

If it makes you feel better to believe it, go right ahead.

But you are wrong.
__________________
indra is offline  
Old 10-29-2008, 11:40 PM   #578
ONE
love, blood, life
 
indra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,689
Local Time: 07:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImOuttaControl View Post
Please tell me...would you be arguing the same position if we were talking about McCain having massive support among whites and among some (maybe few) blacks who think he should be elected "because he's white?"

In my original posts I talked about some of my students saying they were voting Obama because "it's time we had a black president." I quoted Dr. King. I said that racism under any circumstance is unacceptable.

I'm franky incredibly suprised that there is any arguement of me saying this on this forum...it saddens me.

I'm not attacking your candidate!!! I'm saying that it's sad that race still plays a role in our elections and that race is benefitting Obama in some areas and hurting him in others.

I would just think they were stupid. Just as I think your students are stupid. Just because they are voting for the candidate I think is the correct choice doesn't mean I think the reason you said they gave for voting that way isn't stupid. It is STUPID, but it isn't racist.
__________________
indra is offline  
Old 10-29-2008, 11:47 PM   #579
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImOuttaControl View Post
Luckily, I know I'd have the good doctor to agree with me.
No, you don't know that at all. King didn't pen those words in response to the question, "What is the definition of racism?" He was envisioning the ideal colorblind American society of the future, to which racism (see supplied dictionary definition)--specifically, the antiblack racism of the Jim Crow South, the belief that blacks are inherently inferior to whites--was the most potent threat in his day. You have no basis whatsoever for presuming to know whether or not he would deem your students' voting motives "racist."
Quote:
...race is benefitting Obama in some areas and hurting him in others.
Now this much is true.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 10-29-2008, 11:47 PM   #580
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: London/Sydney
Posts: 6,608
Local Time: 12:05 PM
Yes, common sense. Common sense says that a lot of people will be drawn toward the historic event, or will at least be most excited about that aspect of their vote – be it the first black president or, if Hillary had gone through, the first female president. It’s not the right reason to vote, but that doesn’t make it racism or sexism if people point to it as part of their logic for choosing that option. As you say, it’s about character and I don’t think Obama’s race, or Hillary’s ovaries, are/were totally overriding character and do not make them bulletproof. To a true racist or sexist, those things do override character - and I'd say that's likely where the huge difference is between most people saying "I am voting for him because I want to see a black president" and those saying "I will not vote for him because I do not want to see a black president".
__________________
Earnie Shavers is offline  
Old 10-29-2008, 11:52 PM   #581
Refugee
 
ImOuttaControl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Duluth, MN
Posts: 1,340
Local Time: 05:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by indra View Post
I would just think they were stupid. Just as I think your students are stupid. Just because they are voting for the candidate I think is the correct choice doesn't mean I think the reason you said they gave for voting that way isn't stupid. It is STUPID, but it isn't racist.
I'm sorry, but you'd get an "F" in my class, and I'd sit i the lounge and talk about how "stupid.....STUPID" ...that arguement is...and all of my ultra union friends would agree with me.

You still didn't answer my major question: "Please tell me...would you be arguing the same position if we were talking about McCain having massive support among whites and among some (maybe few) blacks who think he should be elected "because he's white?" Would that not be racism?

You're argueing semantics. I'm arguing what is right and wrong. I think racism is wrong, on either side. But whatever, it's my bedtime. Nighty night.
__________________
ImOuttaControl is offline  
Old 10-29-2008, 11:53 PM   #582
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,335
Local Time: 03:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImOuttaControl View Post
Because a dictionary says it, it must be so? What does common sense say?

I know. Whatta bunch of elitists, depending dictionaries and books, of all things, for knowledge.





Oh, and quoting "the good doctor" out of context, with absolutely no idea what the hell he was talking about, doesn't really make you any more correct.
__________________
martha is offline  
Old 10-30-2008, 12:01 AM   #583
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,685
Local Time: 05:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImOuttaControl View Post
I'm sorry, but you'd get an "F" in my class, and I'd sit i the lounge and talk about how "stupid.....STUPID" ...that arguement is...and all of my ultra union friends would agree with me.
Wow, all semantics aside I would have to question your teaching techniques...
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 10-30-2008, 12:07 AM   #584
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,685
Local Time: 05:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleoscar View Post
Dictionary: reverse discrimination

n.
Discrimination against members of a dominant or majority group, especially when resulting from policies established to correct discrimination against members of a minority or disadvantaged group.

Is that good enough for you?
Well it's a nice try, but it still misses the point. I agree it's misguided to vote for a black man because he's a black man, or a woman because she's a woman.

But a man wanting to vote for a woman because she's a woman would never be considered misogynist...
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 10-30-2008, 12:09 AM   #585
ONE
love, blood, life
 
indra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,689
Local Time: 07:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImOuttaControl View Post
I'm sorry, but you'd get an "F" in my class, and I'd sit i the lounge and talk about how "stupid.....STUPID" ...that arguement is...and all of my ultra union friends would agree with me.

You still didn't answer my major question: "Please tell me...would you be arguing the same position if we were talking about McCain having massive support among whites and among some (maybe few) blacks who think he should be elected "because he's white?" Would that not be racism?

You're argueing semantics. I'm arguing what is right and wrong. I think racism is wrong, on either side. But whatever, it's my bedtime. Nighty night.
Ah, but my parents wouldn't have sent me to your school, so you would never have gotten the chance to fail me. (and that was a nicer answer than my first choice, which was: "yeah, I bet you would. I had some silly teachers when I was in school, it's just part of life." So see, I wasn't as snarky as I could be. )

Yes, I did answer your question. Read my last reply again.

I do believe that words have specific meaning. Racism has a specific meaning and that meaning isn't what you think it is. Is what you said the kids said about their reason for voting for Obama stupid? Damn right, it is stupid, mighty damned stupid. They seem to completely lack critical thinking skills. But it isn't racism.
__________________

__________________
indra is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com