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Old 10-27-2008, 11:57 AM   #391
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What does this have to do with the Fairness Doctine? Or Bill Clinton?
They don't like to answer conservative questions. Can you imagine Palin sticking her finger at Couric and yelling at her? It has to do with the attitude of avoiding questions.
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Old 10-27-2008, 11:58 AM   #392
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Can I ask them about redistributing my tax dollars to bankers?
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Old 10-27-2008, 12:00 PM   #393
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They don't like to answer conservative questions. Can you imagine Palin sticking her finger at Couric and yelling at her? It has to do with the attitude of avoiding questions.


Clinton wasn't running for office at the time, and had a record of service in the vault.
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Old 10-27-2008, 12:08 PM   #394
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what do you think taxes do?
I brought that up to a conservative this weekend and the only retort he had to that was, "You guys are just socialist."

Circular reasoning, it's perfect.
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Old 10-27-2008, 12:09 PM   #395
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They don't like to answer conservative questions. Can you imagine Palin sticking her finger at Couric and yelling at her? It has to do with the attitude of avoiding questions.
If Couric had asked some stupid questions Palin would have won a bit of respect if she'd done that.

As it was Couric asked straightforward questions which exposed Palin as completely unsuitable for the task at hand.
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Old 10-27-2008, 12:12 PM   #396
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It's not communism, yet it is not the political form of Sweden. "Spreading wealth", or a fair income distribution, is not equal to socialism. It's dishonest, and I don't think any political scientist would do the same, to take that principle and attribute it solely to socialism.
A socialist state and a social-democratic state (and Sweden plays a special role in that kind of politics) are not to be confused, mixed or deliberately put as one.
And don't kid yourself, to call something, anything, socialism when it comes to US politics is clearly intended to move the direction into a particular direction. It's no secret that you just have to try to imply socialism and some people will think twice about who they are voting for.

I don't get the "own medicine" line either. Palin got at least intelligent questions which she should be able to answer. Her answers were awful. But it wasn't Biden or the democratic campaign that asked those questions.

The questions went clearly beyond just asking tough questions, they were outright unintelligent. I could understand the Republican campaign as well if they decided not to take questions by that station again.
What a political scientist would say is that we are all socialist to a certain extent and it's true the use of words are misused for political terms, but conservatives believe that Sweden (where $30,000 American or above gets 70% personal tax) is the ultimate goal for democratic socialists and yes they do read Karl Marx.

Das Capital is more influential than the Communist Manifesto because Marx couldn't describe the state of communism in any concrete way. Now Sweden lowered their corporate taxes so that jobs would still exist there and not move to Britain like it used to but that just bolsters the argument against shifting the tax burden to corporations.

Obama, in 2001 Interview, Lamented Failure of Civil Rights Movement to Redistribute Wealth - FOXNews.com Elections

This article also looks at what Obama would like to do. Also when you add Barney Frank's comments you get the idea there will be more tax shifts in the future. There are already welfare programs in the U.S. how much more is needed? I don't believe that Obama and Biden could go to Sweden in 4 years but the ultimate goal is that over time. If I did the questions I would focus on corporate taxes more and less on Karl Marx, but talking about Sweden is definately appropriate. I don't think anyone should avoid media questions unless they start swearing at the guy or getting physically agressive. Palin did her (edited) interviews and it's time for others to take their lumps and that won't happen until more conservative questions are asked. I'm actually surprised that those questions were even asked. In my country hard questions are usually reserved for anyone who threatens the liberal party (Conservative, NDP). If you think the debates are messy in the U.S. try and find video of the Canadian debates with 4 left wing parties after the 1 conservative party in a roundtable style with people shouting over each other. We also have the CRTC which is like the fairness doctrine. Fox News was actually not available until recently because of it. Eventually people complained they could get CNN and why not Fox News?
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Old 10-27-2008, 12:15 PM   #397
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AFAIK the Fairness Doctrine's been dead since Reagan killed it back in the 80's.
Just an update for you. They tried to pass it recently and it failed. Some democrats didn't go for it. Phew!

Senator Bingaman wants to reinstate it.
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Old 10-27-2008, 12:28 PM   #398
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I brought that up to a conservative this weekend and the only retort he had to that was, "You guys are just socialist."

Circular reasoning, it's perfect.
Well if a conservative said that to you then they need to pick up a book.

Taxes go to the government. They are put into social programs, but much of that money goes to bureaucrats who get paid defined benefit pensions and good salaries to administer the money. After they get paid what is left goes to the program. People who rely on welfare programs usually don't like what they get and wish for more. The problem is that there have to be people that don't receive the benefit and pay the taxes for the programs to exist.

This burden can make it harder for people to stand on their own 2 feet so many in the middle class start adopting the programs out of necessity. Companies that want to exist also pass the cost of increased fees and taxes onto the population because they can. This can lead to hiring freezes, more layoffs or just an increase prices. Who wants that?

Now as I belabored before the role of saving money for your retirement also is affected by increased taxes. This slows down the accumulation of capital that is necessary for starting new companies or buying out crappy old ones.

This is good finally some back and forth in this thread without snarky comments. I like this.
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Old 10-27-2008, 12:33 PM   #399
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purpleoscar, are you for progressive taxation or for a flat tax?
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Old 10-27-2008, 12:36 PM   #400
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Well if a conservative said that to you then they need to pick up a book.

Taxes go to the government. They are put into social programs,
And they are put into defense spending, and they pay the Military, and the FDA, and the FCC, and FEMA, the INS, etc. Funny how you left those out.

They are also used to bail out rich bankers when they screw up.
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Old 10-27-2008, 01:02 PM   #401
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They don't like to answer conservative questions. Can you imagine Palin sticking her finger at Couric and yelling at her? It has to do with the attitude of avoiding questions.
The Fairness Doctrine isn't in affect. Even if it was, it has nothing to do with not answering question or not liking questions. There's no such thing as conservative or liberal questions. Clinton isn't running for President. So I'm trying to figure out what any of this is about.

And like it was said before, if Palin was asked stupid questions this MIGHT be comparable, but she wasn't...
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Old 10-27-2008, 01:16 PM   #402
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Obama, in 2001 Interview, Lamented Failure of Civil Rights Movement to Redistribute Wealth - FOXNews.com Elections

This article also looks at what Obama would like to do. Also when you add Barney Frank's comments you get the idea there will be more tax shifts in the future. There are already welfare programs in the U.S. how much more is needed? I don't believe that Obama and Biden could go to Sweden in 4 years but the ultimate goal is that over time.
Rush was talking about these tapes as well. And I have come to the conclusion that conservatives have a reading comprehension problem. I don't know any other explanation. Rush was taking leaps and bounds in order to twist Obama's words. Nowhere in those tapes does it say anything about Obama wanting a redistribution of wealth. In fact, he talked about how he thought the civil rights movement was too court based.

So don't give me this ultimate goal crap...
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Old 10-27-2008, 01:39 PM   #403
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but much of that money goes to bureaucrats who get paid defined benefit pensions and good salaries to administer the money. After they get paid what is left goes to the program.
How else do you propose the program is administered? Volunteers? People who work deserve a salary. Do you work for free?
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Old 10-27-2008, 01:45 PM   #404
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I really don't know what things are like in Germany or Sweden

and I would not call Obama a Marxist or even a socialist

I do believe it is safe to say that most Americans do not believe it is the job of the American Government to be involved in "the redistribution of wealth".

I don't know what you are doing in Montana, perhaps you are on a college campus, where the concept of "the redistribution of wealth" does not alarm students.

But I am certain that if you ask the typical person on the street, they will not favor the concept at all.
Yes, I am at a college here. Haven't asked them about it. I understand that the phrase alone is enough for many to get the creeps. Certainly a gaffe to word it that way.

However, when you change the taxing structure one effect will almost always be that income is shifted. Some are left with higher taxes, the others with lower. This way, the distribution of income is changed. It's a perfectly normal process, even for the US.
And Biden was right, the tax reforms during the Bush area were exactly the same. Only this time, the middle class was deteriorating as they didn't profit from lower taxes while the high income earners did.
Today, the Gini-coefficient, a measure to evaluate the income distribution in a society, is .43. The higher the coefficient, ranging from 0 to 1, the higher the inequality. Among developed countries the US has the highest Gini-coefficient.

Far from being socialistic, we don't litterally take the money from the rich and give it to the poor. However, we have a progressive tax system. That works after the oh so marxistic motto of "From each according to his ability to each according to his need". (Though the conservative government under Kohl did a heckuva job making this tax system more unfair back in the early 90s.) The rich are a higher taxed than those with lower incomes. We support those with low to very low incomes with our social systems. The intention behind it is to keep the income distribution a little more equal.
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Old 10-27-2008, 01:52 PM   #405
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And like it was said before, if Palin was asked stupid questions this MIGHT be comparable, but she wasn't...
But don't you see, it has all been (edited).
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