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Old 10-26-2008, 01:45 AM   #301
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You shouldn't joke of such things.
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Old 10-26-2008, 01:47 AM   #302
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Well, I sadly believe Obama has a ceiling that cannot be cracked. I hope I am wrong, but, I think there is enough racisim in the world, that things may be different when people go to vote verses the polls.
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Old 10-26-2008, 08:11 AM   #303
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fivethirtyeight on the outside way mccain could maybe win.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10252008...win_135233.htm
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Old 10-26-2008, 11:35 AM   #304
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Who is More Like George W. Bush - McCain or Obama? « FOX Embeds « FOXNews.com

McCain matches Obama with Bush on out of control spending.
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Old 10-26-2008, 11:38 AM   #305
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McCain will continue to spend on Iraq, Obama will spend on things that actually matter, and not America stubbornly insisting it was a good idea.
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Old 10-26-2008, 11:55 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by phillyfan26 View Post
McCain will continue to spend on Iraq, Obama will spend on things that actually matter, and not America stubbornly insisting it was a good idea.
Point taken.

The left usually emphasizes spending domestically and does this by reducing military spending.

I hope Obama commands troop withdrawal better than it was done in Vietnam. Afghanistan will be more difficult than Iraq since most of Iraq has been handed off to their own military, and Pakistan is the entry way to Afghanistan.

Biden probably got briefed about terrorists trying to test America to try and speed up withdrawal and wanted to let the public know they should stick with Obama when he makes his decisions.
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Old 10-26-2008, 12:06 PM   #307
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Well, I sadly believe Obama has a ceiling that cannot be cracked. I hope I am wrong, but, I think there is enough racisim in the world, that things may be different when people go to vote verses the polls.
This is my biggest fear.

Granted, if Obama loses, you can't just assume it's because everyone who voted for McCain did so because they're racist. I'd love to assume that if McCain wins, that all those who voted for McCain simply think he's the better candidate and has the better plans. (And again, as long as I'm wishing, I'd love a pony.)

Despite the excitement, despite the polls, despite how things appear in the media, I feel there are enough Americans out there who would rather die than see a black man / man with "Hussein" in his name / "socialist" / "guy with obvious terrorist ties" become president.

And that just makes me so sad. Even if he wins, it'll still make me sad because I know there are a lot of those people in this country.
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Old 10-26-2008, 12:11 PM   #308
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YouTube - Joe Biden on WFTV in Florida - He Lies, Spins, and Distorts - Interview with Barbara West

Finally some tough questions on the Democratic ticket.

YouTube - Barney Frank: Plenty of rich people that we can tax

Ouch!

The next four years will be fun.
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Old 10-26-2008, 12:29 PM   #309
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Originally Posted by toscano View Post
I would gladly vote for McCain/Palin if:

a) They were pro-choice
b) They were pro-helping PEOPLE as opposed to rewarding businesses which are already shipping jobs overseas
c) They renounce abortion clinic bombers and internaitonal terrorist Oliver North unequivocally
d) Put this Diamond married to a goat thing to bed*

*I really hope Diamond doesn't whip anything out

By the way, the birth certificate thing is already in bed, only a few far right kooks think it's an open issue
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Old 10-26-2008, 12:32 PM   #310
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Afghanistan will be more difficult than Iraq since most of Iraq has been handed off to their own military,
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Old 10-26-2008, 12:44 PM   #311
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I don't know where you got the idea that Iraq has been largely handed off to their own military but that's simply incorrect.
The only thing keeping the country somewhat stable right now is the fact that there's 230,000 U.S. troops in there. Take your pick: pull them out in 100years from now and watch the country tear itself apart, in the meantime have thousands of more U.S. soldiers die, or take them out in the next 2 years, and then the country will desolve into chaos.
It's a no win situation, but if the U.S. leaves now, at least there will be far fewer U.S. casualties.
Do you really think Bush or McCain think the U.S. can "win"? What is even the definition of "winning" for Iraq anyway? Have them singing "We Are The World" while holding hands and watching American football? Please. They both know what the probable outcome is but neither wants that day of leaving Iraq on their hands.
The surge worked? Ok, but now what? Once you start removing troops it's going to start all over again.
Gee W, you really screwed us good, didn't ya?
Thanks for the memories.
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Old 10-26-2008, 01:03 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by JOFO View Post
I don't know where you got the idea that Iraq has been largely handed off to their own military but that's simply incorrect.
The only thing keeping the country somewhat stable right now is the fact that there's 230,000 U.S. troops in there. Take your pick: pull them out in 100years from now and watch the country tear itself apart, in the meantime have thousands of more U.S. soldiers die, or take them out in the next 2 years, and then the country will desolve into chaos.
It's a no win situation, but if the U.S. leaves now, at least there will be far fewer U.S. casualties.
Do you really think Bush or McCain think the U.S. can "win"? What is even the definition of "winning" for Iraq anyway? Have them singing "We Are The World" while holding hands and watching American football? Please. They both know what the probable outcome is but neither wants that day of leaving Iraq on their hands.
The surge worked? Ok, but now what? Once you start removing troops it's going to start all over again.
Gee W, you really screwed us good, didn't ya?
Thanks for the memories.
Well that's definately the liberal point of view and you covered much of what many Americans think.

What the conservatives think is that Democrats want to leave Iraq and Afghaninstan too soon so they rip each other apart and then they can blame Bush. Then the next time America gets attacked it won't go to war at all.

Bush certainly didn't invent the idea of the surge and he was naive about the culture in the middle east and compared reformation there to Japan after WWII. He also elongated the war by having tactics to taking ground only to move back later. This force the U.S. to fight over the same ground more than once. These lessons have been learned and Conservatives want to apply them in Afghanistan. If there is a pull out that won't matter.

There is an opportunity for Obama if he completes a surge after withdrawing from Iraq to secure Afghanistan. If democrats believe that leaving Iraq has more to do with the fact that the U.S. shouldn't have went in the first place then at least finish in Afghanistan. Most democrats were okay with the war in Afghanistan.

BBC NEWS | Middle East | US forces hand province to Iraqis

Includes map of Iraqi controlled areas.
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Old 10-26-2008, 01:16 PM   #313
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Obama vs. McCain dance off.

So you think you can dance?

Unbelievable McCain Vs. Obama Dance-Off�Video
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Old 10-26-2008, 01:23 PM   #314
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Well that's definately the liberal point of view and you covered much of what many Americans think.

What the conservatives think is that Democrats want to leave Iraq and Afghaninstan too soon so they rip each other apart and then they can blame Bush. Then the next time America gets attacked it won't go to war at all.

Bush certainly didn't invent the idea of the surge and he was naive about the culture in the middle east and compared reformation there to Japan after WWII. He also elongated the war by having tactics to taking ground only to move back later. This force the U.S. to fight over the same ground more than once. These lessons have been learned and Conservatives want to apply them in Afghanistan. If there is a pull out that won't matter.

There is an opportunity for Obama if he completes a surge after withdrawing from Iraq to secure Afghanistan. If democrats believe that leaving Iraq has more to do with the fact that the U.S. shouldn't have went in the first place then at least finish in Afghanistan. Most democrats were okay with the war in Afghanistan.

BBC NEWS | Middle East | US forces hand province to Iraqis

Includes map of Iraqi controlled areas.
My thoughts:

Iraq has not been a success, and, no matter how long we stay there, we're just facilitating a civil war.

Afghanistan is undermanned due to Iraq.

The next time America gets attacked, we should defend ourselves against the correct people as opposed to going after the guy from the general area who daddy had a scuffle against back in the day.
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Old 10-26-2008, 01:45 PM   #315
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Guys, I don't know if you've seen this yet, but I hope this is the future of presidential candidate debates. I'd be more inclined to watch, and less inclined to drink myself to a state of numb indifference.

YouTube - Obama and McCain - Dance Off!
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Originally Posted by purpleoscar View Post
they didn't like it the first time, but maybe they'll like it when you post it.
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