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Old 10-25-2008, 09:57 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by purpleoscar View Post
Are you telling me that the hammering in the media about McCain/Pain being a continuation of Bush and that Bush is responsible for the meltdown isn't apparent to you? Democrats love it because it resonates with lots of voters despite being false.

BTW Scott McLellan is not a democrat strategy but a Scott McLellan strategy for himself.

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Well, if anyone has paid attention to the policies and voting record of John McCain on during the past 8 years, it's pretty clear that at least 90% of the time he'll be a continuation of Bush. That's a little too high for me. They're readily available, for any voter who's actually concerned enough to take a look. Of course, with the intellect of the majority of the American electorate, that's not too high.
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Old 10-25-2008, 11:18 AM   #152
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How sad is for the drudgery report that the day after their screaming headline is a McCain supporter hoax, that the next day their screaming headline is a quote from "joe the plumber" ?? Apparently he is 'scared for america', I'll hand it to the guy, he's milking his 15 minutes a la william hung
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Old 10-25-2008, 11:44 AM   #153
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Well, if anyone has paid attention to the policies and voting record of John McCain on during the past 8 years, it's pretty clear that at least 90% of the time he'll be a continuation of Bush. That's a little too high for me.
Here's the thing. Right now, a vast majority of the people in the country feel like you do, which is why Obama is doing so well. People do not want another four years that are 90% the same as the last eight.

McCain knows this, so he's trying to pretend he'll be different. Not because he wants to be (and most likely has no desire to be or intention of being). Not because he will be (and most likely will not be). But because it's what he perceives the public wants. If he thought the public wanted four more years of Bush, he'd be bragging about that 90% in every speech. He's basically molding himself into what he thinks will get him elected.

Fortunately, it looks like most people have just enough sense to see through that, so they won't fall for it, and he won't get those votes. Meanwhile he's alienating the people who thought the last eight years were just fine, so he's risking those votes too.

IMO he should have never tried to run as the anti-Bush. He should have run his own campaign, and rather than tell us why he wasn't Bush, he should have told us who he was. And I mean who he really was, not this plastic version of who he thinks we want him to be.
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Old 10-25-2008, 12:27 PM   #154
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Here's the thing. Right now, a vast majority of the people in the country feel like you do, which is why Obama is doing so well. People do not want another four years that are 90% the same as the last eight.

McCain knows this, so he's trying to pretend he'll be different. Not because he wants to be (and most likely has no desire to be or intention of being). Not because he will be (and most likely will not be). But because it's what he perceives the public wants. If he thought the public wanted four more years of Bush, he'd be bragging about that 90% in every speech. He's basically molding himself into what he thinks will get him elected.

Fortunately, it looks like most people have just enough sense to see through that, so they won't fall for it, and he won't get those votes. Meanwhile he's alienating the people who thought the last eight years were just fine, so he's risking those votes too.

IMO he should have never tried to run as the anti-Bush. He should have run his own campaign, and rather than tell us why he wasn't Bush, he should have told us who he was. And I mean who he really was, not this plastic version of who he thinks we want him to be.
Brilliantly said. I do think that the absolute incompetency and failure of the Republican party in the past 8 years has fostered a situation that has forced McCain to spend most of his time in a strange marriage of offense and defense trying to show how much he's not like Bush and the major Republican leaders at the helm of the current sinking ship of our government and economy. The grand majority of Americans are simply fed up, and rightly so, with the Republican policies and deceit that led us to this point. McCain has no chance of winning if he simply tries to be different. His voting record and policy support of the past 8 years (save for a few areas) has been nearly identical to whatever Bush supported. The areas where he broke away were good, and he should be commended for that, but a 10% change isn't going to cut it. He knows that, his campaign masterminds know it, the Republican leaders know it, and most of all, we the people know it. The only chance McCain has at this point, which seems to be slipping further away because of his disastrous campaign, is to try to drill in the American public's head that he's Bush's opposite and to use whatever fear tactics and lies he can to make the electorate afraid of Obama. As we're now seeing, the American people aren't as stupid, as McCain bet on, and that strategy is backfiring. Does he have a shot in hell? Sure, but barring a major turn-around, McCain can only blame his likely loss of the presidency at his own selling of his soul to win.
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Old 10-25-2008, 01:02 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by U2isthebest View Post
Well, if anyone has paid attention to the policies and voting record of John McCain on during the past 8 years, it's pretty clear that at least 90% of the time he'll be a continuation of Bush. That's a little too high for me. They're readily available, for any voter who's actually concerned enough to take a look. Of course, with the intellect of the majority of the American electorate, that's not too high.
Some of what Bush did was good including criticizing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. On the war McCain will happily side with Bush, but he also disagreed with him on the tactics of fighting for some ground and after winning pulling back to have to retake it again. McCain was right on the surge and Bush didn't get it until the slow attrition and slow progress became too obvious to ignore.

Most people are going with Obama because they think they are going to get tax cuts (despite Barney Franks comments) and the Republican party is solely responsible for the financial mess. So yes I come to the conclusion that the intellect is not there in the general voter but I get to that point from the conservative angle.

I'm all for updating regulations for these new financial instruments, but we all know that redistributionism is going to be implemented mainly by democrats and this crisis is being used to justify it. Look at Waxman's opinions on Paul Krugman (neo-Keynesian) and the Nobel prize and you know where it's going. Even Greenspan in practice was a major Keynesian with his push for ultra low interest rates. No wonder people got into enormous consumer debt so quickly, and others used that debt to gamble on the stock market.

Now some conservatives don't mind some people on the right flocking to Obama because they feel the Republican party abandoned their base and would like them to jump ship to the democrats so the next 4 years will create ammo for fiscal conservatives to make a comeback. The ammo being a lack of deficit control and increased taxes beyond what was promised.
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Old 10-25-2008, 01:04 PM   #156
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Of course the "...." is the important context that is left out. Nice try Diemen!

You must be in training to make left wing documentaries. I wish you all success.
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Old 10-25-2008, 01:12 PM   #157
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Some of what Bush did was good including criticizing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. On the war McCain will happily side with Bush, but he also disagreed with him on the tactics of fighting for some ground and after winning pulling back to have to retake it again. McCain was right on the surge and Bush didn't get it until the slow attrition and slow progress became too obvious to ignore.

Most people are going with Obama because they think they are going to get tax cuts (despite Barney Franks comments) and the Republican party is solely responsible for the financial mess. So yes I come to the conclusion that the intellect is not there in the general voter but I get to that point from the conservative angle.

I'm all for updating regulations for these new financial instruments, but we all know that redistributionism is going to be implemented mainly by democrats and this crisis is being used to justify it. Look at Waxman's opinions on Paul Krugman (neo-Keynesian) and the Nobel prize and you know where it's going. Even Greenspan in practice was a major Keynesian with his push for ultra low interest rates. No wonder people got into enormous consumer debt so quickly, and others used that debt to gamble on the stock market.

Now some conservatives don't mind some people on the right flocking to Obama because they feel the Republican party abandoned their base and would like them to jump ship to the democrats so the next 4 years will create ammo for fiscal conservatives to make a comeback. The ammo being a lack of deficit control and increased taxes beyond what was promised.
There's really no point in debating this. We have fundamental differences in our views on how the world works. I will say that I find it ridiculous to give Bush even the tiniest bit of credit for anything he did to the financial systems of this country.
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Old 10-25-2008, 01:31 PM   #158
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You are so funny. You really must only read the conservative sources for everything.


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Some of what Bush did was good including criticizing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Criticism don't mean shit.

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Most people are going with Obama because they think they are going to get tax cuts
Um, NO. You don't really know why people are voting for Obama at all, do you? No one I know who's voting for him, and that's nearly all of the people I know, has said "Jeepers! I know Obama's going to cut my taxes, so I'm voting for him!11!"



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The ammo being a lack of deficit control and increased taxes beyond what was promised.
This is just funny. "Lack of deficit control." It's just funny. You haven't seen any information about the deficit since your pal Georgie took over, have you?
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Old 10-25-2008, 01:39 PM   #159
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Most people are going with Obama because they think they are going to get tax cuts (despite Barney Franks comments) and the Republican party is solely responsible for the financial mess.
What polls indicate that tax cuts are the number one campaign issue? The economy as a whole is.

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I'm all for updating regulations for these new financial instruments, but we all know that redistributionism is going to be implemented mainly by democrats and this crisis is being used to justify it.
There has already been a redistribution of wealth from Main Street to Wall Street - why is that acceptable?
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Old 10-25-2008, 02:30 PM   #160
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[QUOTE=ntalwar;5563096]What polls indicate that tax cuts are the number one campaign issue? The economy as a whole is.

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There has already been a redistribution of wealth from Main Street to Wall Street - why is that acceptable?
Obama's idea of 95% of the population getting tax cuts are quite popular and it is what many think will help the economy. This is also why some Republican voters prefer him to McCain. I think they are mistaken because of the social security element of his claim, but that's another discussion for later if an when Obama wins.

In regards to distribution to Wall Street from Main Street (bail out) I'm not in agreement with congress or Bush. I don't like the bail out because I think it doesn't do much. Aren't they asking for more money now? When will it end?

AIG example.
AIG may need more cash due to restructuring - AOL Money Canada

Also it creates a moral hazard. If gambling on the stock market leads to losses but those losses are bailed out by the taxpayer then future gambling will be looked at as not so risky because companies can expect the tax payer to always bail them out.

I essentially agree with you that the economy as a whole is the main issue of the election but I went into more detail of the root causes and I'll list all I can think of for issues:

- low interest rates for a long time that allowed people to get into huge debt. Yes it's partially the public's fault for giving into consumer debt and greed for flipping securities and assets with the belief the market would always go up. Yet politcians usually avoid blaming those people knowing they may lose votes from them. I think Palin talked about living within your own means, and Obama made a comment of Bush saying "let's go shopping". Yet it's still too vague to make any dent. I certainly hope people limit their shopping to something reasonable, but will they?

- lack of regulations for new financial instruments. When debt is created it should be disallowed to be sold in portions to other people via bundled securities that include biased Standard and Poor ratings. Only prideful libertarians would defend zero regulation.

- subprime loans. If people don't have a downpayment and they don't have enough income so mortgage payments are only 30% of their pay then they should look for smaller accomodations or rent until they can save for a bigger downpayment to lower the overall mortgage payments.

Capitalism fails temporarily because of people incurring too much debt (boom) and have to pay it back later (bust). Yet capitalism recovers, if it's allowed to. That's why I tell people to save as much as you can, especially during a boom, so they can handle the cycles better. I also urge to avoid the tax and spend attitude of the government because it just makes it harder for people to save who still have jobs during the recession. That savings creates new jobs and the recovery in the future. The faster the savings the faster the recovery. Savings also creates independence so less people have to rely on the taxpayer and more people will have a nest egg for retirement.

I think McCain's policies of reviewing all programs to find waste areas to cut will help resist the urge to raise taxes and that is a better way of handling the natural recession. The only way to avoid booms and busts would be if all people were rational and not emotional and nobody took on debt they couldn't handle, but that would be a perfect system. I think perfect systems don't exist. Everytime there is a crisis we need to add on what we learned and not revert to failed redistribution policies of the past. Eg. New Deal, Great Society. These systems invented in the 30's and 60's were supposed to eliminate poverty but they didn't. As long as somebody can take their handout and snort cocaine with it the choice factor in peoples decisions will be the main motivator for their success or failure. I mean isn't that what we are all arguing about? How much of a role is there for government? The appropriate solution is somewhere between the extremes of Marxism on the left and Libertarianism on the right.
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Old 10-25-2008, 02:55 PM   #161
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Obama's idea of 95% of the population getting tax cuts are quite popular and it is what many think will help the economy. This is also why some Republican voters prefer him to McCain. I think they are mistaken because of the social security element of his claim, but that's another discussion for later if an when Obama wins.
McCain is running on tax cuts too - including for people like Warren Buffett and for oil companies.

To paraphrase Obama, both will try to cut spending - Obama will use a scalpel and McCain will use a hatchet (which is irresponsible).
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Old 10-25-2008, 03:02 PM   #162
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Guess who got a kiss on the cheek from the next Vice President of the United States today................




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Old 10-25-2008, 03:12 PM   #163
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great pic laura, nice botox joe.

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Old 10-25-2008, 03:21 PM   #164
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Guess who got a kiss on the cheek from the next Vice President of the United States today................




I am so incredibly jealous of you right now.
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Old 10-25-2008, 03:25 PM   #165
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Guess who got a kiss on the cheek from the next Vice President of the United States today................











LAURA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!OMG ... THAT IS SUCH A GREAT PIC.. U lucky girl! wtg!
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