2008 U.S. Presidential Campaign Discussion Thread-Part 10. - Page 7 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-09-2008, 11:06 AM   #91
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,661
Local Time: 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
Here is a perfect example of the celebration of ignorance and stupidity by the right:



Yes, let's celebrate incorrec pronunciations of foreign places. After all, who the hell cares what the right way is, the American way is BEST!! Don't be such effete liberal intellectuals.

David Brooks (Republican for those keeping score) really put it best when he stated that:
That portion of the right scares the shit out of me...
__________________

__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 10-09-2008, 11:24 AM   #92
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Utoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lovetown
Posts: 8,343
Local Time: 04:30 PM
That "Palin mob" video is 100% scary. It looks like "small town America" has a bigger problem with drugs and alcohol than they'd like to admit...


Here's John from yesterday, feeding the flames of senility:

YouTube - Mccain Losing it - "My fellow Prisoners"

I love how his daughter (I'm assuming that's who the blonde is) makes half a grimace as she realizes her old man is exactly that.

Again---do we really want a guy who spent years in a box, having his limbs broken, tortured--as the guy with his finger on every major button? Looks to me like it's constantly on his mind...
__________________

__________________
Utoo is offline  
Old 10-09-2008, 11:24 AM   #93
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 01:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by U2isthebest View Post
I don't feel that Reagan was a great president. I find him highly overrated especially in his asinine trickle-down economics philosophy and his defense policies (i.e. the massive waste of money that was STAR WARS). I give him credit for helping to end the Cold War and standing firm to Gorbachev, but I don't feel he belongs on a list of our best presidents.
many historians disagree w you.

<>
__________________
diamond is offline  
Old 10-09-2008, 11:31 AM   #94
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,236
Local Time: 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utoo View Post


I know everyone wanted him to get off the "my friends" thing, but I don't think "my fellow prisoners" is an improvement.
__________________
Diemen is offline  
Old 10-09-2008, 11:49 AM   #95
Blue Crack Distributor
 
corianderstem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 63,714
Local Time: 12:30 PM
I can't even begin to tell you how disturbing I find it that so many Americans think that it's a bad thing to be smart. Learned about the world. Curious about learning new things. For pete's sake, why would you NOT want the leader of our country to be seen as an intelligent person?

Even if you're from modest backgrounds and modest means, and haven't had a lot of education, wouldn't you want the person running your country to be smarter than you? I do not understand it, and I never will.

Is it that some people have the perception that anyone who has more education than they do looks down on them? If that's the case, kindly tell them to take the chip off their shoulders and GET OVER IT.

(Yes, I realize that there are people who look down on those less educated. But you can't just assume that every educated person does.)

Also, and somewhat related, Sarah Vowell was on The Daily Show a few nights ago and said something really interesting.

Basically, she chided the Republican politicians for coming to New York and embracing them all in a big 9/11-we-will-never-forget-we-stand-by-our-New-Yorkers hug and as soon as they're gone, sneering at all those "east coast snooty elites."
__________________
corianderstem is online now  
Old 10-09-2008, 11:51 AM   #96
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Utoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lovetown
Posts: 8,343
Local Time: 04:30 PM
Factcheck.org hasn't been churning out as many analyses as they should be.

CNN.com, however, seems to have picked up the slack.

Looking at the fact checks on CNN.com, it seems to me that in the last week or so, Obama's claims are getting more "True" or "True but incomplete" grades, while McCain's seem to be garnering many, many more "False" or "Misleading" grades.

Obviously, this can be a result of which statements CNN.com chooses to factcheck. However, I believe that it's also a direct result of the strategies that each campaign has been using. Obama--talk the issues, point out contrast, and ride high. McCain--dirt and slime and twisted truths in order to plant seeds of doubt.
__________________
Utoo is offline  
Old 10-09-2008, 11:55 AM   #97
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Utoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lovetown
Posts: 8,343
Local Time: 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post
I can't even begin to tell you how disturbing I find it that so many Americans think that it's a bad thing to be smart. Learned about the world. Curious about learning new things. For pete's sake, why would you NOT want the leader of our country to be seen as an intelligent person?

Even if you're from modest backgrounds and modest means, and haven't had a lot of education, wouldn't you want the person running your country to be smarter than you? I do not understand it, and I never will.

Also, and somewhat related, Sarah Vowell was on The Daily Show a few nights ago and said something really interesting.

Basically, she chided the Republican politicians for coming to New York and embracing them all in a big 9/11-we-will-never-forget-we-stand-by-our-New-Yorkers hug and as soon as they're gone, sneering at all those "east coast snooty elites."


I completely blame George Bush & Karl Rove. During the 2000 and 2004 elections, they pointed out cultural differences within the United States and magnified them to cartoonish proportions in order to use them to their advantage.
__________________
Utoo is offline  
Old 10-09-2008, 12:38 PM   #98
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,974
Local Time: 03:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamond View Post
i do think john eschews angry women tho.

Not this again..

Is John McCain an ANGRY man? Do you have the same standards for angry men and angry women?

fyi, some of the "angriest" women are those who feel forced to internalize their anger and other emotions. Sometimes that's because of an angry man
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 10-09-2008, 12:42 PM   #99
ONE
love, blood, life
 
indra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,689
Local Time: 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post
I can't even begin to tell you how disturbing I find it that so many Americans think that it's a bad thing to be smart. Learned about the world. Curious about learning new things. For pete's sake, why would you NOT want the leader of our country to be seen as an intelligent person?

Even if you're from modest backgrounds and modest means, and haven't had a lot of education, wouldn't you want the person running your country to be smarter than you? I do not understand it, and I never will.
That always strikes me as odd too.
__________________
indra is offline  
Old 10-09-2008, 01:06 PM   #100
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Lila64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: ♥Set List Lane♥
Posts: 52,710
Local Time: 01:30 PM
saw this article/link on the Yahoo home page

Quote:
McCain changes homeowner plan Mike Allen
Thu Oct 9, 12:29 AM ET



Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) made an overnight change in the homeowner bailout he proposed at Tuesday’s presidential debate, making it more generous to financial institutions and more costly for taxpayers.

ADVERTISEMENT

McCain's staff says it was always meant that way.

When McCain sprang his surprise idea at the start of the debate in Nashville, his campaign posted details online of his American Homeownership Resurgence Plan, which would direct the government to buy up bad home mortgages, allowing strapped people to keep their property.

The document posted and e-mailed by the McCain campaign on Tuesday night says at the end of its first full paragraph: “Lenders in these cases must recognize the loss that they’ve already suffered.”

So the government would buy the mortgages at a discounted rate, reflecting the declining value of the mortgage paper.

But when McCain reissued the document on Wednesday, that sentence was missing, to the dismay of many conservatives.

That would mean the U.S. would pay face value for the troubled documents, which was the main reason Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) gave for opposing the plan.

A McCain campaign official explained the change: “That language was mistakenly included in the initial draft, and it’s been corrected. It doesn’t reflect the intentions of the initiative, which necessitated the correction and the removal of the sentence. A simple mistake.”

Obama Campaign Economic Policy Director Jason Furman said in the campaign statement opposing McCain's plan: "John McCain wants the government to massively overpay for mortgages in a plan that would guarantee taxpayers lose money and put them at risk of losing even more if home values don’t recover. The biggest beneficiaries of this plan will be the same financial institutions that got us into this mess, some of whom even committed fraud."

The McCain campaign estimates in both documents that the plan would cost about $300 billion
__________________
Lila64 is offline  
Old 10-09-2008, 01:15 PM   #101
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,974
Local Time: 03:30 PM

YouTube - Part 2 - The McCain-Palin Mob in Strongsville, Ohio
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 10-09-2008, 01:22 PM   #102
Blue Crack Distributor
 
VintagePunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In a dry and waterless place
Posts: 55,732
Local Time: 03:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by U2isthebest View Post
I give him credit for helping to end the Cold War and standing firm to Gorbachev
IMO, he gets far too much credit for this. The fact is, the political, economic and social climate in that region was ready for it, and it would have happened regardless of who was in power. He just happened to be in the right place at the right time.
__________________
VintagePunk is offline  
Old 10-09-2008, 01:29 PM   #103
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,974
Local Time: 03:30 PM
AFP

Rednecks for Obama' want to bridge yawning culture gap

by Michael Mathes Thu Oct 9, 9:50 AM ET

When Barack Obama's campaign bus made a swing through Missouri in July, the unlikeliest of supporters were waiting for him -- or rather two of them, holding the banner: "Rednecks for Obama."

In backing the first African-American nominee of a major party for the US presidency, the pair are on a grassroots mission to bridge a cultural gap in the United States and help usher their preferred candidate into the White House.

Tony Viessman, 74, and Les Spencer, 60, got politically active last year when it occurred to them there must be other lower income, rural, beer-drinking, gun-loving, NASCAR race enthusiasts fed up with business as usual in Washington.

Viessman had a red, white and blue "Rednecks for Obama" banner made, and began causing a stir in Missouri, which has emerged as a key battleground in the run-up to the November 4 presidential election.

"I didn't expect it would get as much steam and attention as it's gotten," Spencer told AFP on the campus of Washington University in Saint Louis, the state's biggest city and site of last week's vice-presidential debate.

"We believe in him. He's the best person for the job," Viessman, a former state trooper from Rolla, said of Obama, who met the pair briefly on that July day in Union, Missouri.

The candidate bounded off his bus and jogged back towards a roadside crowd to shake hands with the men holding the banner.

"He said 'This is incredible'," Spencer recalled.

It's been an unexpectedly gratifying run, Viessman said.

Rednecks4obama.com claims more than 800,000 online visits. In Denver, Colorado, Viessman and Spencer drew crowds at the Democratic convention, and at Washington University last Thursday they were two of the most popular senior citizens on campus.

"I'm shocked, actually, but excited" that such a demographic would be organizing support for Obama, said student Naia Ferguson, 18, said after hamming it up for pictures behind the banner.

"When most people think 'redneck,' they think conservatives, anti-change, even anti-integration," she said. "But America's changing, breaking stereotypes."

A southern comedian, Jeff Foxworthy, defines the stereotype as a "glorious lack of sophistication".

Philistines or not, he said, most rural southerners are no longer proponents of the Old South's most abhorrent ideology -- racism -- and that workaday issues such as the economy are dominating this year's election.

"We need to build the economy from the bottom up, none of this trickle down business," Spencer said. "Just because you're white and southern don't mean you have to vote Republican."

To an important degree, however, race is still the elephant in the polling booth, experts say, and according to a recent Stanford University poll, Obama could lose six points on election day due to his color.

Racism "has softened up some, but it's still there," Viessman acknowledged from Belmont University, site of Tuesday's McCain-Obama debate in Nashville, Tennessee.

Despite representing the heartland state of Illinois, and having a more working-class upbringing than his Republican rival John McCain, Obama has struggled to shoot down the impression that he is an arugula-eating elitist.

Surely he alienated many rural voters earlier this year when the Harvard-educated senator told a fundraiser that some blue-collar voters "cling to guns or religion".

But Viessman, who says he owns a dozen guns, said Obama "ain't gonna take your guns away."

The South traditionally votes Republican -- victories for southerners Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter were exceptions -- but with less than a month to election day, four states in or bordering the South are considered toss-ups: Florida, Missouri, North Carolina and Virginia.

Viessman says he'd like to think his grassroots movement could sway enough people in small-town America to make a difference.

"There's lots of other rednecks for Obama too," he said. "And the ones that's not, we're trying our best to convince them."
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 10-09-2008, 02:28 PM   #104
Refugee
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,943
Local Time: 08:30 PM
Quote:
October 9, 2008
Obama’s Race May Be as Much a Plus as a MinusNot much different from the impact of McCain’s race


by Frank Newport
PRINCETON, NJ -- While 6% of voters say they are less likely to vote for Barack Obama because of his race, 9% say they are more likely to vote for him, making the impact of his race a neutral to slightly positive factor when all voters' self-reported attitudes are taken into account.

At the same time, 6% of voters say John McCain's race will make them less likely to vote for him, with 7% saying it makes them more likely to vote for him, leading to the same basic conclusion: McCain's race, like Obama's, is on balance neither a plus nor a minus.

These conclusions are based on eight dimensions potentially affecting the vote for both candidates. The dimensions were included in Gallup's Oct. 3-5 poll, and analyzed overall by Gallup's Jeff Jones.

One of the dimensions tested for each candidate was "his race." More specifically, as was true for each of the other seven dimensions, respondents were asked to indicate whether each candidate's race made them more likely, or less likely, to vote for him for president. The data are presented in the charts here.

Eighty-five percent of voters say Obama's race makes no difference, and 87% say McCain's race makes no difference. This makes race the single dimension out of the eight tested that is the least likely to have an impact on the vote.

As noted above, the self-reported impact of race for both Obama and McCain is mixed, with about as many respondents saying race will make them more likely to vote for each candidate as say race will make them less likely to vote for each.

The potential impact of Obama's race on the election has been the more scrutinized this year. These data, taken at face value, show that if anything, his race could be a net plus, in the sense that it makes slightly more voters want to vote for him than not want to vote for him.

There is, as expected, a difference by the race of the respondent in answers to this question.

Among nonwhites in the sample, there is a net difference of 11 percentage points in Obama's favor in terms of the likelihood to vote for him because of his race. Among non-Hispanic whites in the sample, there is a slight net negative for Obama of -1 point.

The impact of McCain's race among nonwhites, on the other hand, is -8 points. Among whites it is +4.

Implications

Much has been written about the impact of race in this year's election, a not surprising fact given that Obama is the first black major-party candidate in U.S. presidential history to gain his party's nomination.

The data analyzed here -- based on voters' self-reports -- show that the impact of Obama's and McCain's races appears to cut both ways. Enough voters, particularly nonwhites, say they are more likely to vote for Obama because of his race to offset the small percentage who say they are less likely to vote for him because of his race. And the same is true in reverse for McCain: the impact of nonwhites' saying his race is a negative is offset by those who say it is a positive.

More specifically, to review perhaps the most important finding in these data, 7% of white voters say Obama's race makes them less likely to vote for him. But 6% of white voters say Obama's race makes them more likely to vote for him. And among nonwhite voters, Obama's race is a significant net plus.

It is important to note that these data are based on self-reports of survey respondents, and may not reflect the unconscious impact of race and/or the willingness of respondents to admit that the race of a candidate affects their voting behavior. But the racial data discussed here were collected in a grid of eight different dimensions, which may have had the impact of downplaying any particular significance to race as a concept that respondents focused on.

In the final reality, it may be impossible to tell exactly what impact the fact that Obama is black and McCain white may have on the outcome of the Nov. 4 election. These results suggest that the large majority of American voters at this point say neither man's race will be a factor in their vote decision. Certainly it's true that a small percentage of white voters say Obama's race will be a negative to them, and a small percentage of nonwhite voters say McCain's race will be a negative. These results are offset by the fact that each man's race is a plus to other voters. Perhaps more importantly, in the context of other candidate dimensions tested in the recent research, race is actually the least important factor tested.

Obama’s Race May Be as Much a Plus as a Minus
__________________
Strongbow is offline  
Old 10-09-2008, 02:58 PM   #105
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Utoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lovetown
Posts: 8,343
Local Time: 04:30 PM
Got this from a friend, who got it from a friend, etc....

A nice little vid expressing concern about McCain's character. I think they could even have pulled in some more impressive people to comment...

YouTube - John McCain's Rage is a National Security Concern
__________________

__________________
Utoo is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com