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Old 10-22-2008, 05:11 PM   #856
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Originally Posted by namkcuR View Post
From last night:

MSNBC pwns Palin(I think Maddow had a segment too but I can't find it)
thanks for the olberman vid, that was great
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Old 10-22-2008, 05:17 PM   #857
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From last night:

MSNBC pwns Palin(I think Maddow had a segment too but I can't find it)
Chris Matthews was at it again just now. This issue really ticks him off

If nothing else, this election has drilled into my head what the role of the Vice President is according to the Constitution.
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Old 10-22-2008, 05:23 PM   #858
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yeah, you, me, and everyone in america except sarah palin, candidate for vp.
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Old 10-22-2008, 05:27 PM   #859
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See, here's why I've always said not to be counting chickens re. the presidential race - Too many stupid people

AP presidential poll: Race tightens in final weeks - Yahoo! News
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Old 10-22-2008, 05:50 PM   #860
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Pfriend or Pfoe? | The Daily Show | Comedy Central

So, U2democrat, are you part of real or fake Virginia?

Is that like northern Florida is really Georgia, but we just don't like to publicize it?

See, I'm from west central Florida, which is the real Florida. As opposed to south Florida, which is the fake Florida (or "Cuba") and northern Florida, which is actually Georgia, as I said before. Central Florida is Disney World, so it's a different country all together. And east central Florida is known as the space coast, so you know . . . . aliens. The Florida Keys . . . well, we just pretend they don't exist and only pay attention to them when it's hurricane season or we want to vacation there.

I think everyone in FYM should examine if they are in the real or fake part of their state (or province, for our Canadian posters ).



very good, kelly!
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Old 10-22-2008, 05:52 PM   #861
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i now live in the fakest part of fake Virginia -- communist Arlington!




*runs to get a can of PINKO spray-piant to paint up Irving!*


ETA:
Then would YOU like to choose your very own hue/ tint/ shade of "Pinko-Pink", Irving?

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Old 10-22-2008, 05:54 PM   #862
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my people are known for good taste.

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Old 10-22-2008, 05:59 PM   #863
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Oh leave them alone, they don't have time to look it up, they're too busy getting the government to prop up the "free market", they'd never do THAT ina socialist country.......
...tears........

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"Less Government" (except in cases of federal bans on gay marriage, abortion, propping up the banks.....)


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Old 10-22-2008, 06:12 PM   #864
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Uh Oh, now Oscar is going to come in here and tell you Warren is just stricken by the guilt of being rich and he's worried about people not liking him...
OK..... then ........


.... Warren Buffet please meet your other guilty rich people pals- FDR, First Lady Eleanor, Teddy Roosevelt & RFK.


The super conservatives have never forgiven FDR and later others for giving us Socialistic Programs like Social Security, Disability, Medicare & Medicaid etc.

Rushbo......
"Roosevelt is Dead....." approx next part.......... And we're doing something about his policies..........
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Old 10-22-2008, 06:43 PM   #865
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See, here's why I've always said not to be counting chickens re. the presidential race - Too many stupid people
tosc- it's not so much even that as this, now:

there are at least 2 current frivolous law-suits by Republicans in 2 states - one in Indiana, I think, that will throw out hundreds of thousands, possibly a million new voters> And it's very possible that the people who voted EARLY to avoid having their votes screwed with will also get tossed out!


If you're the praying or good vibes kind--- pray/vibe that these Judges do the right thing, and stop assisting Voter Suppression techniques.
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Old 10-22-2008, 07:26 PM   #866
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*crickets*


bye
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Old 10-22-2008, 07:37 PM   #867
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History will prove that Iraq was not a war of necessity.
I'm glad you put compassionate in quotes, for it was nothing of the sort...

But once again you miss my point, it's not a "if Republicans do it why can't we", it's about quit using the slogans of yesteryear, they no longer exist. The Republicans are not small government.
So if Republicans are not small government and what are Democrats? You get my meaning? There is ticket that wants to reform the Republican party and control spending. The other ticket is into redistributionism. It's clear that voting for democrats because past Republicans spent too much doesn't make sense. Are the democrats the alternative that can balance the budget? What promises will Obama have to nix in order to accomplish that?

The idea that Republicans don't include people who want small government is not true. Yes there are big government Republicans but that's what McCain and Palin want to change. Big spending republicans also reflects the American voter. Maybe they will demand more out of congress when they finally understand that bankruptcy is not good no matter what entitlements are spent on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar View Post
Wow, just wow.
Yeah when I read Symposium it was exactly what I thought. There's an entire section where a general is trying hard to screw Socrates. You have to read it to believe it. At least Plato focused on the goal of looking at love being in different levels and love of the forms being the best, the next best love of character, and the least a love of the flesh.

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Man you are all over the place with this paragraph. Yes you need a job to save, but that's not what you said, I pointed out to you that you have contradicted yourself from last week.
No contradiction. I was talking about what an individual should do in regards to savings. I haven't changed my point of view on that. If the government takes more money from corporations and they layoff more people then it's harder to save when you don't have a job.

So the point is don't increase taxes on corporations. It's not difficult to understand. The government can't do much to help you but it can do a lot of harm. Let's limit the government to what it can do. Once you start with redistributionism for more equal outcomes where does it stop?

If people save while they still have a job during the recession they are doing the right thing. Even in Sweden saving can give you benefits, but if you make 30,000/year U.S. or more you will pay 70% to the government so you better like what the government gives you because if the quality is not good you will have to find savings in that 30% net pay.

At least Sweden has a lower corporate tax rate. Why do they? Because they want companies to stay. Get it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar View Post
Who has the typical attitude that government can increase our wealth? I've never met anyone who has that attitude.

Then you get into your psychoanalytical envy bullshit again...
The democratic party believes that the government is the solution to the economic problems. What do you think the Community Reinvestment Act is for? It's to have government force banks to include more risky loans to help poor people.

Envy, envy, envy! You hate my envy argument. I think envy is a HUGE part of the human psyche and should not be considered a small issue. I'm confident that everybody (including you) who succeeded at anything in their lives has seen envy in others, especially in work environments. Bullying in office workplaces are often related to envy.

I love this book. Lots of good examples:

Amazon.com: ENVY: HELMUT SCHOECK: Books


This is a good site that gives some solutions to what can trigger envy in the workplace.

The Green-Eyed Monster - Keeping Envy Out of the Workplace

Examples

Jealousy, envy common problems at workplace

The Main Drive Behind the Bully: Envy | Bully Free at Work

Quote:
Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar View Post
And then you go on to talk about how even if the middle class does get money they will just live out of their means. What does this have to do with anything? Do you want the government to come in and control the middle class spending? You aren't making sense.
Well Obama wants tax cuts for the middle class and to increase corporate taxes. Most people in the middle class don't run corporations and they have currently a low savings rate. If they spend more money (from Obama's tax cuts) instead of saving/paying down debt it won't do much. I'm only hoping that people will save money no matter what tax plan occurs. It's still possible if you have a job.

We want the productive classes to reinvest their profits and not have it taxed because that creates more job opportunities. See the Sweden example above. If you are going to do redistribution then pushing for higher corporate taxes when we want companies to be attracted to North America will kill jobs. I want individuals to save, of course, but they need jobs first.

The reason to vote for the rich to get stuck with an increasing tax bill only sounds good if you look at individuals being envious of the rich and wanting to stick it to them.

So in summary. Keep personal taxes as they are and corporate taxes as they are. Cut spending. Then when the budget is balanced start paying down the debt. Once interest payments are starting to reduce you can lower taxes more permanently. McCain wants to lower taxes right away but he better find enough savings in government expenditures to balance the budget.

As individuals you can make a budget and map out what you want to have as a nest egg for your retirement and start following the savings plan. If people don't follow their own budgets and continue with huge debt loads they are not going to achieve the retirement they want whether Obama or McCain win. But if McCain wins you will likely get a job if you lose one (and if well educated maybe not lose your job)

Quote:
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Once again, where does this come from? Who is talking about forced hiring? I know one canidate that has incentitives to keep tech jobs in the US, and it's not McCain.
My point was that companies don't hire people for philanthropic reasons so you you need incentives for people to do this. Allowing companies to reinvest their profits will allow them to grow faster and hire people.

Lower corporate taxes brings it's own incentive. Higher corporate taxes will not keep jobs in the U.S.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar View Post
But it doesn't happen in practice.
If they save their money it does. If they don't it doesn't. The "trickle down" is your pay cheque. What you do with your pay cheque is up to you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar View Post
Once again, a lot of words, but nothing really said. Yes, people need to save, but like you said they need a decent job in order to save. Do you know how many people are living paycheck to paycheck?
They didn't have to live pay cheque to pay cheque. Why didn't they get an education? What's the point of having training and school if people don't take advantage of it? My dad was an immigrant and had low paying jobs all his life but he controlled his expenses because he didn't have this pride related to a standard of living he felt he deserved. It wasn't fun to do the savings but it yielded a decent retirement for him and he will have an inheritance to give that his father never gave him. There are lots of budgeting tools to help you get back on your feet. Looking at the consumption you see in any mall you can tell people find money for all kinds of crap and still say they can't save. Of course they can save. They just don't want to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar View Post
But get off your savings thing, for you can't ever force people to save, focus on what we can do.
My point is that there are always opportunities to save and people are not honest about their spending habits. We can't force people to save but the necessity is there if they want a decent retirement that has some dignity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar View Post
Can you give an example of where this is happening in America or Canada?
All democracies have lobbyists that compete for tax payers money. They all vote for parties that support their funding. Why do you think McCain and Palin are scary to those people? It's their jobs. If a person has a useless job in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac they will donate money and vote for parties that protect them. If special interests get their way most of the time people who vote (and aren't part of a special interest group) feel that politicians never do what they are supposed to and follow lobbyists first. This adds to voter apathy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar View Post
Just like in all walks of life yes this is true for some. But there are also very talented folks in the middle class that didn't have the right connection. There are some born with a silver spoon, and some born without a spoon. So don't give me this crap about incentive. You honestly think some folks are going to purposely work less because they might make the next tax bracket even though they'll be making more at the end of the day? Give me a break, your grasp on economics makes my brain hurt sometimes.
Yes you can be born with a silver spoon in your mouth and that causes envy amongst people who aren't but I say that it's not the right attitude. You have to find equanimity and focus on your plan for life. Many people who are rich are extremely spoiled and not happy. That's why I like philosophy a lot, and it covers desire and know it needs to be controlled. The west has lost it's understanding of goods and their role on happiness. They used to be religious but lost it. Most people got their self-discipline from religion so when they lose it they often go into egoism and consumerism. You don't have to join a religion to find ethics but certainly reading philosophers and reflecting on your life is important.

"A life unexamined is not worth living." ~ Socrates

Prior generations were more thrifty. That has to be taught again for Western civilization to remain healthy and strong. Does anybody care about retirement anymore?
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Old 10-22-2008, 07:43 PM   #868
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See, here's why I've always said not to be counting chickens re. the presidential race - Too many stupid people

AP presidential poll: Race tightens in final weeks - Yahoo! News
I’m surprised so many people have forgotten John Kerry, it was only 4 years ago. Wasn’t he leading in the polls right up to the day?

Also, you can never write off Republican dirty bullshit. Of course McCain will pull closer, and off course it will be because of the focus of the last couple of weeks, which no doubt will intensify over the next one and a half.

Repeat after me:

Terrorist/Socialist/Muslim/Not really American/Not Real American.
Terrorist/Socialist/Muslim/Not really American/Not Real American.
Terrorist/Socialist/Muslim/Not really American/Not Real American.

Continue for 4 weeks.
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Old 10-22-2008, 07:44 PM   #869
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Yes there are big government Republicans but that's what McCain and Palin want to change.

So, are they going to repeal all those laws that allow the US government to spy on its own citizens?

Or is that necessary big government?
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Old 10-22-2008, 07:53 PM   #870
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There is ticket that wants to reform the Republican party and control spending.

- $150,000 in new clothes and makeup paid for by voters' donations
- Tanning bed installed in the governor's mansion
- Charged Alaskan taxpayers for 300 days' per diem when she was living at home
- $43,900 of taxpayer money for travel for her husband and children from Wasilla to Juneau
- $21,012 of taxpayer money for her children to travel with her to events to which they weren't invited





I call B.S.
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