purpleoscar
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
That's right. You are learning my young padawan.
2008 U.S. Presidential Campaign Discussion Thread-Part 10.
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That's right. You are learning my young padawan.
I mean, that mailer is beyond reproach.
We know damn well that it's supposed to mean
Obama is a terrorist.
McCain: go to hell asshole.
Re: Palin
I just heard on the news her approval rating is lower than Bush's...is that even possible?
.......Wait it gets better; she just said she think the job of the VP is to "get in there with the senate and make policy changes".......
Amazing, really.
I just heard on the news her approval rating is lower than Bush's...is that even possible?
.......Wait it gets better; she just said she think the job of the VP is to "get in there with the senate and make policy changes".......
Amazing, really.
namkcuR
ONE love, blood, life
From last night:
MSNBC pwns Palin(I think Maddow had a segment too but I can't find it)
YouTube - Ignorant Palin talks like 2nd grader to America Chris Mathews Pat Buchanan Mark Green
YouTube - Keith Olbermann Campaign Comment 10-21-08 - Palin and the VP
MSNBC pwns Palin(I think Maddow had a segment too but I can't find it)
YouTube - Ignorant Palin talks like 2nd grader to America Chris Mathews Pat Buchanan Mark Green
YouTube - Keith Olbermann Campaign Comment 10-21-08 - Palin and the VP
Popmartijn
Blue Crack Supplier
What's interesting about this, is that there's also this story about McCain and his connection to Iraq.
McCain Transition Chief Aided Saddam In Lobbying Effort
So, what's it going to be...?
purpleoscar
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Not all Republicans are conservative, and spending on war is something that would be nice to avoid but enemies prevent that from happening. From your response it shows that George Bush's over spending and "compassionate" conservatism doesn't work and gives ammunition for the democrats. "If Republicans do it why can't we?" That's important to know. Conservatives aren't all that happy with Bush and need to know that "crossing the aisle" has more to do with public relations than good policy.
I'm not for legislating what goes on in the bedroom. Even homosexual marriage, which is legalized in Canada, is for a small percentage of the population and when the political mission is eliminated less people seem to care as long as it's private.
What conservatives should be more worried about is gay adoption and influence on children. Just read Plato's Symposium, and you'll know what I mean about fear of the older influencing the younger in relationships. They believed that young teenage boys were real sexy. There was no political correctness when Plato was around to censor that book.
The question will be more heated when we talk about gay adoption. What is a Catholic adoption service supposed to do for a gay couple? Should the government force them to provide the service to gay couples despite their beliefs? You know the government is going to be pulled in on this debate.
If I don't have a job how can I save? Companies hire us not out of duty but because they hope to make money off our labor. They are not doing philanthropy. Obama is weak on this area. It follows the typical attitude that government can increase our wealth and that we have little to do with it. Very contagious line of thinking. It's usually based on envy and class warfare. If money is distributed to the middle class who still have a job then what happens if they don't save the money and just buy more despite mounds of debt?
When Fred Thompson said in the RNC that "Obama is not going to take water from this side of the bucket but from the other side of the bucket." It was actually a line with a lot of thought put into it. Basically we are interconnected. There are unintended consequences to redistributionist policies. If we can't force people to hire (which would be like communism) then all there is are incentives.
The trickle down theory is that we get jobs because in order for companies to grow and get richer they need employees. Lower taxes helps with that. If the middle class continues with this 0% savings rate they will dwindle no matter what the government does. Tax redistributionist policies simply move money already in the economy to others creating winners and losers. Many rich millionaires and billionaries are rich because the middle class bought into the consumer BS. We can make them work harder for us by not blowing our credit to support them. Not every product is worth buying. With the savings in the bank it can be lent out to companies that supply us with what we demand. If a company sells dog crap, no amount of advertising and investment will get it off the ground. Some companies need to fail. Jobs will be lost but people needs jobs that actually produce something worth while. Jobs can be replaced. When the middle class saves they can handle these unemployment shocks much better. Also employees can more confidently change their job when they have a financial cushion they can rely on. You don't have to wait for a recession to find another job. If government wants to help with unemployment it should be focussed on retraining so people instead of just giving them money. That would be worth the taxes.
After redistributionist policies are started people evenutally join special interest groups to collect as much as possible of this handout and some with the aim of getting part of their tax money back by controlling where the spending goes. This creates apathy in democracy and low voter turnout. Individuals without a special interest group feel they are competing against blocks of group voters.
Also the lot of people who make huge money usually have talents and HARD WORK to get their money and have to deal with constant competition for their jobs. There has to be an incentive for people to get up in the morning to do work like that. It's like war sometimes in these high powered jobs.
Even Sweden decided to lower their corporate tax rates because their personal tax rates were so high. There needs to be a reason for corporations to be there or else there won't be any payroll to tax.
I think the major weakness of capitalism is that if people lose self-restraint and self-discipline their wealth can spoil them and ignorance on top of that can lead to rampant consumerism that makes us soft and weak. The kinds of things people get stressed about are so minimal compared to what people in 3rd world countries have to go through. The modern wealthy man has to invent tragedy out of small things. Without self-discipline and morality (which is found in religion and philosophy) societies decay. I prefer philosophy to religion but most people are attracted to religion because it offers rewards in the afterlife and if they lose belief or have none in the first place they tend to go to egoism. Adam Smith wrote an economics book but also an ethics book as well.
You can see it's a fragile balance that individuals need to be aware of. If morality is missing, or good economics, a crisis ensues until we learn our lessons. If we do.
corianderstem
Blue Crack Distributor
Republicans have unleashed a blistering mailing against Barack Obama that invokes the 9/11 attacks with a disturbing image of a jumbo jet and a warning that the Democrat nominee isn't "who you think he is."
I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.
I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
History will prove that Iraq was not a war of necessity.
I'm glad you put compassionate in quotes, for it was nothing of the sort...
But once again you miss my point, it's not a "if Republicans do it why can't we", it's about quit using the slogans of yesteryear, they no longer exist. The Republicans are not small government.
Wow, just wow.
Man you are all over the place with this paragraph. Yes you need a job to save, but that's not what you said, I pointed out to you that you have contradicted yourself from last week.
Who has the typical attitude that government can increase our wealth? I've never met anyone who has that attitude.
Then you get into your psychoanalytical envy bullshit again...
And then you go on to talk about how even if the middle class does get money they will just live out of their means. What does this have to do with anything? Do you want the government to come in and control the middle class spending? You aren't making sense.
Once again, where does this come from? Who is talking about forced hiring? I know one canidate that has incentitives to keep tech jobs in the US, and it's not McCain.
But it doesn't happen in practice.
Once again, a lot of words, but nothing really said. Yes, people need to save, but like you said they need a decent job in order to save. Do you know how many people are living paycheck to paycheck?
But get off your savings thing, for you can't ever force people to save, focus on what we can do.
Can you give an example of where this is happening in America or Canada?
Just like in all walks of life yes this is true for some. But there are also very talented folks in the middle class that didn't have the right connection. There are some born with a silver spoon, and some born without a spoon. So don't give me this crap about incentive. You honestly think some folks are going to purposely work less because they might make the next tax bracket even though they'll be making more at the end of the day? Give me a break, your grasp on economics makes my brain hurt sometimes.
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
corianderstem
Blue Crack Distributor
Well, at least it wasn't directed at his wife this time.
Tiger Edge
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
I disagree. He was clearly giving a speech out of his second mouth on the back of his head. You know, the mouth McCain used to talk with before this new mouth was planted firmly on his face.
corianderstem
Blue Crack Distributor
Varitek
Blue Crack Addict
Great article on just how crazy/full of shit/dangerously unstable McCain might be.
Make-Believe Maverick : Rolling Stone
Make-Believe Maverick : Rolling Stone
Varitek
Blue Crack Addict
And I haven't read it yet, because it's long, but the snippets I've heard about it are pretty awesome if you are for Obama, but also kind of scary re: McCain, and at the very least quite juicey.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/26/magazine/26mccain-t.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/26/magazine/26mccain-t.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
Varitek
Blue Crack Addict
thanks for the olberman vid, that was great
kellyahern
Blue Crack Supplier
Chris Matthews was at it again just now. This issue really ticks him off
If nothing else, this election has drilled into my head what the role of the Vice President is according to the Constitution.
Varitek
Blue Crack Addict
yeah, you, me, and everyone in america except sarah palin, candidate for vp.
toscano
Refugee
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See, here's why I've always said not to be counting chickens re. the presidential race - Too many stupid people
AP presidential poll: Race tightens in final weeks - Yahoo! News
AP presidential poll: Race tightens in final weeks - Yahoo! News
dazzledbylight
Blue Crack Supplier
Pfriend or Pfoe? | The Daily Show | Comedy Central
So, U2democrat, are you part of real or fake Virginia?
Is that like northern Florida is really Georgia, but we just don't like to publicize it?
See, I'm from west central Florida, which is the real Florida. As opposed to south Florida, which is the fake Florida (or "Cuba") and northern Florida, which is actually Georgia, as I said before. Central Florida is Disney World, so it's a different country all together. And east central Florida is known as the space coast, so you know . . . . aliens. The Florida Keys . . . well, we just pretend they don't exist and only pay attention to them when it's hurricane season or we want to vacation there.
I think everyone in FYM should examine if they are in the real or fake part of their state (or province, for our Canadian posters).
very good, kelly!
dazzledbylight
Blue Crack Supplier
*runs to get a can of PINKO spray-piant to paint up Irving!*
ETA:
Then would YOU like to choose your very own hue/ tint/ shade of "Pinko-Pink", Irving?
dazzledbylight
Blue Crack Supplier
dazzledbylight
Blue Crack Supplier
dazzledbylight
Blue Crack Supplier
OK..... then ........
.... Warren Buffet please meet your other guilty rich people pals- FDR, First Lady Eleanor, Teddy Roosevelt & RFK.
The super conservatives have never forgiven FDR and later others for giving us Socialistic Programs like Social Security, Disability, Medicare & Medicaid etc.
Rushbo......
"Roosevelt is Dead....." approx next part.......... And we're doing something about his policies..........
dazzledbylight
Blue Crack Supplier
tosc- it's not so much even that as this, now:
there are at least 2 current frivolous law-suits by Republicans in 2 states - one in Indiana, I think, that will throw out hundreds of thousands, possibly a million new voters> And it's very possible that the people who voted EARLY to avoid having their votes screwed with will also get tossed out!
If you're the praying or good vibes kind--- pray/vibe that these Judges do the right thing, and stop assisting Voter Suppression techniques.
dazzledbylight
Blue Crack Supplier
*crickets* 
bye
bye
purpleoscar
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
So if Republicans are not small government and what are Democrats? You get my meaning? There is ticket that wants to reform the Republican party and control spending. The other ticket is into redistributionism. It's clear that voting for democrats because past Republicans spent too much doesn't make sense. Are the democrats the alternative that can balance the budget? What promises will Obama have to nix in order to accomplish that?
The idea that Republicans don't include people who want small government is not true. Yes there are big government Republicans but that's what McCain and Palin want to change. Big spending republicans also reflects the American voter. Maybe they will demand more out of congress when they finally understand that bankruptcy is not good no matter what entitlements are spent on.
Wow, just wow.
Yeah when I read Symposium it was exactly what I thought. There's an entire section where a general is trying hard to screw Socrates. You have to read it to believe it. At least Plato focused on the goal of looking at love being in different levels and love of the forms being the best, the next best love of character, and the least a love of the flesh.
Man you are all over the place with this paragraph. Yes you need a job to save, but that's not what you said, I pointed out to you that you have contradicted yourself from last week.
No contradiction. I was talking about what an individual should do in regards to savings. I haven't changed my point of view on that. If the government takes more money from corporations and they layoff more people then it's harder to save when you don't have a job.
So the point is don't increase taxes on corporations. It's not difficult to understand. The government can't do much to help you but it can do a lot of harm. Let's limit the government to what it can do. Once you start with redistributionism for more equal outcomes where does it stop?
If people save while they still have a job during the recession they are doing the right thing. Even in Sweden saving can give you benefits, but if you make 30,000/year U.S. or more you will pay 70% to the government so you better like what the government gives you because if the quality is not good you will have to find savings in that 30% net pay.
At least Sweden has a lower corporate tax rate. Why do they? Because they want companies to stay. Get it?
The democratic party believes that the government is the solution to the economic problems. What do you think the Community Reinvestment Act is for? It's to have government force banks to include more risky loans to help poor people.
Envy, envy, envy! You hate my envy argument. I think envy is a HUGE part of the human psyche and should not be considered a small issue. I'm confident that everybody (including you) who succeeded at anything in their lives has seen envy in others, especially in work environments. Bullying in office workplaces are often related to envy.
I love this book. Lots of good examples:
Amazon.com: ENVY: HELMUT SCHOECK: Books
This is a good site that gives some solutions to what can trigger envy in the workplace.
The Green-Eyed Monster - Keeping Envy Out of the Workplace
Examples
Jealousy, envy common problems at workplace
The Main Drive Behind the Bully: Envy | Bully Free at Work
Well Obama wants tax cuts for the middle class and to increase corporate taxes. Most people in the middle class don't run corporations and they have currently a low savings rate. If they spend more money (from Obama's tax cuts) instead of saving/paying down debt it won't do much. I'm only hoping that people will save money no matter what tax plan occurs. It's still possible if you have a job.
We want the productive classes to reinvest their profits and not have it taxed because that creates more job opportunities. See the Sweden example above. If you are going to do redistribution then pushing for higher corporate taxes when we want companies to be attracted to North America will kill jobs. I want individuals to save, of course, but they need jobs first.
The reason to vote for the rich to get stuck with an increasing tax bill only sounds good if you look at individuals being envious of the rich and wanting to stick it to them.
So in summary. Keep personal taxes as they are and corporate taxes as they are. Cut spending. Then when the budget is balanced start paying down the debt. Once interest payments are starting to reduce you can lower taxes more permanently. McCain wants to lower taxes right away but he better find enough savings in government expenditures to balance the budget.
As individuals you can make a budget and map out what you want to have as a nest egg for your retirement and start following the savings plan. If people don't follow their own budgets and continue with huge debt loads they are not going to achieve the retirement they want whether Obama or McCain win. But if McCain wins you will likely get a job if you lose one (and if well educated maybe not lose your job)
My point was that companies don't hire people for philanthropic reasons so you you need incentives for people to do this. Allowing companies to reinvest their profits will allow them to grow faster and hire people.
Lower corporate taxes brings it's own incentive. Higher corporate taxes will not keep jobs in the U.S.
If they save their money it does. If they don't it doesn't. The "trickle down" is your pay cheque. What you do with your pay cheque is up to you.
They didn't have to live pay cheque to pay cheque. Why didn't they get an education? What's the point of having training and school if people don't take advantage of it? My dad was an immigrant and had low paying jobs all his life but he controlled his expenses because he didn't have this pride related to a standard of living he felt he deserved. It wasn't fun to do the savings but it yielded a decent retirement for him and he will have an inheritance to give that his father never gave him. There are lots of budgeting tools to help you get back on your feet. Looking at the consumption you see in any mall you can tell people find money for all kinds of crap and still say they can't save. Of course they can save. They just don't want to.
My point is that there are always opportunities to save and people are not honest about their spending habits. We can't force people to save but the necessity is there if they want a decent retirement that has some dignity.
All democracies have lobbyists that compete for tax payers money. They all vote for parties that support their funding. Why do you think McCain and Palin are scary to those people? It's their jobs. If a person has a useless job in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac they will donate money and vote for parties that protect them. If special interests get their way most of the time people who vote (and aren't part of a special interest group) feel that politicians never do what they are supposed to and follow lobbyists first. This adds to voter apathy.
Yes you can be born with a silver spoon in your mouth and that causes envy amongst people who aren't but I say that it's not the right attitude. You have to find equanimity and focus on your plan for life. Many people who are rich are extremely spoiled and not happy. That's why I like philosophy a lot, and it covers desire and know it needs to be controlled. The west has lost it's understanding of goods and their role on happiness. They used to be religious but lost it. Most people got their self-discipline from religion so when they lose it they often go into egoism and consumerism. You don't have to join a religion to find ethics but certainly reading philosophers and reflecting on your life is important.
"A life unexamined is not worth living." ~ Socrates
Prior generations were more thrifty. That has to be taught again for Western civilization to remain healthy and strong. Does anybody care about retirement anymore?
Earnie Shavers
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
I’m surprised so many people have forgotten John Kerry, it was only 4 years ago. Wasn’t he leading in the polls right up to the day?
Also, you can never write off Republican dirty bullshit. Of course McCain will pull closer, and off course it will be because of the focus of the last couple of weeks, which no doubt will intensify over the next one and a half.
Repeat after me:
Terrorist/Socialist/Muslim/Not really American/Not Real American.
Terrorist/Socialist/Muslim/Not really American/Not Real American.
Terrorist/Socialist/Muslim/Not really American/Not Real American.
Continue for 4 weeks.
martha
Blue Crack Supplier
So, are they going to repeal all those laws that allow the US government to spy on its own citizens?
Or is that necessary big government?
- $150,000 in new clothes and makeup paid for by voters' donations
- Tanning bed installed in the governor's mansion
- Charged Alaskan taxpayers for 300 days' per diem when she was living at home
- $43,900 of taxpayer money for travel for her husband and children from Wasilla to Juneau
- $21,012 of taxpayer money for her children to travel with her to events to which they weren't invited
I call B.S.
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