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Old 08-10-2005, 08:24 PM   #106
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Originally posted by STING2


Well, I just explained what I meant by "far left" but I suppose you neglected to read that. I'm still on the topic of this thread which is John McCain VS. Hillery Clinton. I think FYM is very far to the left in respect to the poll numbers in here for BUSH vs. how Bush did in the 50 states around the Union. Under my definition of "far left" for the purposes of this thread, I find it amazing that John McCain is leading by a margin of 2 to 1 over Clinton in a place that leans further to the left than the State of Massachusetts!

The fact that people voted in here against Bush by margins that were further to the left than how Massachusetts voted is indisputable. The North Eastern United States especially the state of Massachusetts has had a far left bias for several decades now when it comes to US Presidential politics. FYM though, is further to the left of Massachusetts in this regard.
I understand your reasoning, but I think its flawed based on the amount of sheer numbers we are talking about. I don't think you can really compare FYM as being more liberal than Massachusetts when we are talking about perhaps 50 people in FYM vs. several million.

And it's just an unscientific polling of members here, which as you have stated many times, going by polls is not the same as official election results.
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Old 08-10-2005, 08:33 PM   #107
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Originally posted by phanan


I understand your reasoning, but I think its flawed based on the amount of sheer numbers we are talking about. I don't think you can really compare FYM as being more liberal than Massachusetts when we are talking about perhaps 50 people in FYM vs. several million.
I don't see why that's relevant.
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Old 08-10-2005, 08:35 PM   #108
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Originally posted by VertigoGal
Why are we playing semantics with this?
I can think of 2 good reasons.

1) If the designations "far left" and "far right" are based on nothing more than presidential election voting behavior, than they are nothing more than redundant synonyms for "Democrat" and "Republican," and ought to be retired.

2) We all know perfectly well that labelling someone "far to the left" or "far to the right" is a loaded act in American public discourse, and highly likely to be interpreted as provocation. "Far to the left" can be and is used as a euphemism for "deviant elitists out to destroy religion, family, enterprise and everything else that is good and noble in society," while "far to the right" can be and is used as a euphemism for "bigoted zealots out to destroy equal opportunity, personal liberty, the politics of compromise and everything else noble about democracy."

A person who sincerely seeks mutually respectful dialogue with people of opposing views will avoid such loaded terms (just as they will also avoid making veiled insults, or mockery posing as innocent observation).

On the other hand, sometimes provocation is exactly what is desired--in which case, flame away. Just don't expect to then get away with disingenuously retreating to phony claims of innocence: "Well I of COURSE meant that only in this totally obscure and idiosyncratic sense that I conveniently just invented..." etc.

Oh yeah, almost forgot...McCain.
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Old 08-10-2005, 08:40 PM   #109
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I don't see why that's relevant.

I think it's very relevant. Polling a small number of people and then using those results to say they are more liberal than an entire state doesn't work. What if next week, 10 people here changed their minds? The percentage would be significantly altered. But if 10 people in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts had a change of heart, there wouldn't be any difference.

Perhaps I'm not saying it well enough.
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Old 08-10-2005, 08:49 PM   #110
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Originally posted by VertigoGal


I don't see why that's relevant.
Ever take a statistics class?
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Old 08-10-2005, 08:53 PM   #111
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I understand your first point. "Far left" implies pinko commie fag. A better term would have been "left-leaning."

I don't understand your second point though. We're talking about which percentage of the FYM leans left, in comparison with the percentage of the American public that leans left (guaged by the election). If a higher percentage of FYMers consider themselves Democrats, vote against Bush, etc, isn't it logical to say that FYM is general more left-leaning than the American population taken as a whole?
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Old 08-10-2005, 08:53 PM   #112
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Ever take a statistics class?
No.
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Old 08-10-2005, 08:56 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally posted by VertigoGal

I don't understand your second point though. We're talking about which percentage of the FYM leans left, in comparison with the percentage of the American public that leans left (guaged by the election). If a higher percentage of FYMers consider themselves Democrats, vote against Bush, etc, isn't it logical to say that FYM is general more left-leaning than the American population taken as a whole?
But in terms of statistics, this is where something called "sample size" becomes important.

In the simplest terms, if you sample (ie. ask) 10 people a question vs. asking 9000 people, chances are that in the sample size of 9000, you would have covered a more broad cross-section of opinions. In a sample size of very few people, chances are that answers are skewed one way or another simply because the population is too small, and if it is too small, it is not an accurate representation of the population as a whole.
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Old 08-10-2005, 08:57 PM   #114
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Originally posted by anitram


Ever take a statistics class?
Exactly.
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Old 08-10-2005, 09:01 PM   #115
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I understand that. But we're not trying to say that FYM accurately represents the country, just FYM itself. FYM doesn't maybe sample as broad or accurate a cross-section, but that's almost the point. FYM is a small population of U2 fans who like to use the internet and enjoy debating politics, and does not necessarily represent the country accurately. Sorry if I'm being difficult.
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Old 08-10-2005, 09:04 PM   #116
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Old 08-10-2005, 09:08 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally posted by VertigoGal
FYM is a small population of U2 fans who like to use the internet and enjoy debating politics, and does not necessarily represent the country accurately.
That's right, but trying to compare it to an entire state is, in my mind, not a very good comparison.

anitram explained it better than me
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Old 08-10-2005, 09:11 PM   #118
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Originally posted by VertigoGal
FYM is a small population of U2 fans who like to use the internet and enjoy debating politics, and does not necessarily represent the country accurately. Sorry if I'm being difficult.


WWW stands for WORLD WIDE WEB.
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Old 08-10-2005, 09:42 PM   #119
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OH GOD IN HEAVEN.

Can't we all just get along?
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Old 08-10-2005, 10:07 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally posted by phanan


I understand your reasoning, but I think its flawed based on the amount of sheer numbers we are talking about. I don't think you can really compare FYM as being more liberal than Massachusetts when we are talking about perhaps 50 people in FYM vs. several million.

And it's just an unscientific polling of members here, which as you have stated many times, going by polls is not the same as official election results.
Because the polling that is done here is unscientific, it is true that the comparison is flawed. But if a scientific poll of FYM posters was done, I think it would have similar results as the unscientific ones, and it would substantiate my conclusion.
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