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Old 08-10-2005, 04:32 PM   #91
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Originally posted by STING2


There have been multiple polls done in here on who would vote for Bush or Kerry in the election. Bush was defeated by an average of 3 to 1 in most of the polls.

Not even in the most liberal state in the United States was Bush defeated by a margin that large against Kerry.

So the members of FYM have consistently voted in a way that is more liberal than the most liberal states in the United States. So that easily would place this forum as being far to the left, and most people here have agreed with that it is when the question has come up before.
I didn't see those polls, but I will take your word for it.

However I feel that your reasoning is defective.

All that those polls proved is that (at the times they were taken) most posters who voted had a preference for Kerry. Kerry was not a far out leftist candidate. There were other Democrats far to the left of him. Kerry was, and is, a MODERATE LIBERAL.

If there were polls that showed that a true leftist like Dennis Kucinch (for example) was heavily favoured over Bush here then you might have a point.

In addition to that, not for the first time, you are assuming that the rest of the world has the same political complexion as the US.

Many mainstream Democratic politicians, in the context of European politics (for example), would be considered CONSERVATIVES.

Basically, you should bear in mind that 'www' stands for 'World Wide Web', not 'USA Web'.

And I'd respectfully suggest you read up on some political theory to determine what is meant by 'far left'.
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Old 08-10-2005, 04:33 PM   #92
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Originally posted by joyfulgirl


Are you serious? You really think that voting for Kerry over Bush makes one "far to the left"?!
Not individually. In respect to the way the 50 states of the Union voted though, yes. Bush has far more friends in Massachusetts than he does in FYM.
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Old 08-10-2005, 04:35 PM   #93
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Originally posted by STING2

But there is a place where Bush is even more unpopular than Massachusetts, and its called FYM.

....and practically every country in the world. You truly need to stop assuming that only US citizens post here.


I suggest you read my post above, and that of Joyful Girl's.
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Old 08-10-2005, 04:47 PM   #94
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Originally posted by financeguy


I didn't see those polls, but I will take your word for it.

However I feel that your reasoning is defective.

All that those polls proved is that (at the times they were taken) most posters who voted had a preference for Kerry. Kerry was not a far out leftist candidate. There were other Democrats far to the left of him. Kerry was, and is, a MODERATE LIBERAL.

If there were polls that showed that a true leftist like Dennis Kucinch (for example) was heavily favoured over Bush here then you might have a point.

In addition to that, not for the first time, you are assuming that the rest of the world has the same political complexion as the US.

Many mainstream Democratic politicians, in the context of European politics (for example), would be considered CONSERVATIVES.

Basically, you should bear in mind that 'www' stands for 'World Wide Web', not 'USA Web'.

And I'd respectfully suggest you read up on some political theory to determine what is meant by 'far left'.
My definition of "far left" was only in reference to US politics and US elections. If one were to map out the results of the 2004 US election and show which states were far to the right and which states were more in the middle and then which states were far to the left based on the results of the election, you would have a state like Massachusetts far to the left, a state like Ohio Wisconsin in the middle, and a state like Wyoming far to the right.

I was not referencing general political theory when I used the words "far left" or what such a term may mean in Europe.
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Old 08-10-2005, 04:49 PM   #95
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Originally posted by financeguy



....and practically every country in the world. You truly need to stop assuming that only US citizens post here.


I suggest you read my post above, and that of Joyful Girl's.
You need to remember that this is a THREAD with the title John McCain VS. Hillery Clinton. This is a thread that involves US domestic politics, NOT European or world politics. Were talking about a US election and the possibilities in the next US election, not an election taking place outside of the United States.
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Old 08-10-2005, 04:53 PM   #96
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Originally posted by STING2


You need to remember that this is a THREAD with the title John McCain VS. Hillery Clinton. This is a thread that involves US domestic politics, NOT European or world politics. Were talking about a US election and the possibilities in the next US election, not an election taking place outside of the United States.
Except none of this is relevant to what we are currently debating. You said this place had a far left bias. I disputed that assertion.
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Old 08-10-2005, 05:09 PM   #97
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Originally posted by financeguy


Except none of this is relevant to what we are currently debating. You said this place had a far left bias. I disputed that assertion.
Well, I just explained what I meant by "far left" but I suppose you neglected to read that. I'm still on the topic of this thread which is John McCain VS. Hillery Clinton. I think FYM is very far to the left in respect to the poll numbers in here for BUSH vs. how Bush did in the 50 states around the Union. Under my definition of "far left" for the purposes of this thread, I find it amazing that John McCain is leading by a margin of 2 to 1 over Clinton in a place that leans further to the left than the State of Massachusetts!

The fact that people voted in here against Bush by margins that were further to the left than how Massachusetts voted is indisputable. The North Eastern United States especially the state of Massachusetts has had a far left bias for several decades now when it comes to US Presidential politics. FYM though, is further to the left of Massachusetts in this regard.
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Old 08-10-2005, 05:26 PM   #98
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Originally posted by STING2


Well, I just explained what I meant by "far left" but I suppose you neglected to read that. I'm still on the topic of this thread which is John McCain VS. Hillery Clinton. I think FYM is very far to the left in respect to the poll numbers in here for BUSH vs. how Bush did in the 50 states around the Union. Under my definition of "far left" for the purposes of this thread, I find it amazing that John McCain is leading by a margin of 2 to 1 over Clinton in a place that leans further to the left than the State of Massachusetts!

The fact that people voted in here against Bush by margins that were further to the left than how Massachusetts voted is indisputable. The North Eastern United States especially the state of Massachusetts has had a far left bias for several decades now when it comes to US Presidential politics. FYM though, is further to the left of Massachusetts in this regard.
'I suppose you neglected to read that' - no, I certainly did read it, but as I said I find your logic faulty for the reasons I already stated.

'The North Eastern United States.....has had a far left bias for several decades now.....' - you're doing it again. You're assuming that a region that tends to vote heavily Democrat is 'far left'. That's an entirely spurious argument as most mainstream Democrats, even North Eastern ones, are not far leftists. They just aren't.

So if 70% in Massachusetts vote for the Democrat candidate and 30% vote for the Republican, it is not a logical conclusion to make the jump and say that Massachusetts has a far left bias. One would have to do a much much more detailed analysis of the political preferences of Massachusetts voters to make such an assertion.

We're arguing in circles at this stage.
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Old 08-10-2005, 05:32 PM   #99
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Numbers and population = where on the political spectrum?

Yeah 2+2=5
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Old 08-10-2005, 05:47 PM   #100
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Okay, I think Sting2 has cleared up anything that may have been unclear before. This forum seems to lean further left than the US as a whole when it comes to US politics. Why are we playing semantics with this?
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Old 08-10-2005, 06:07 PM   #101
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Why are we playing semantics with this?
Cos that's what FYM is all about.
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Old 08-10-2005, 06:11 PM   #102
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Old 08-10-2005, 06:43 PM   #103
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Hillary. Definitely Hillary.
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Old 08-10-2005, 07:13 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy


'I suppose you neglected to read that' - no, I certainly did read it, but as I said I find your logic faulty for the reasons I already stated.

'The North Eastern United States.....has had a far left bias for several decades now.....' - you're doing it again. You're assuming that a region that tends to vote heavily Democrat is 'far left'. That's an entirely spurious argument as most mainstream Democrats, even North Eastern ones, are not far leftists. They just aren't.

So if 70% in Massachusetts vote for the Democrat candidate and 30% vote for the Republican, it is not a logical conclusion to make the jump and say that Massachusetts has a far left bias. One would have to do a much much more detailed analysis of the political preferences of Massachusetts voters to make such an assertion.

We're arguing in circles at this stage.
No, your just refusing to see or understand the way I defined the term "Far Left" in this particular context! A state like Massachusetts is "Far Left" compared to a state like Wyoming. Does that mean people in Massachusetts are Communist or want to give 80% of their income to the government, NO. But for the purposes of how the state populations have VOTED in US PRESIDENTIAL POLITICS, Massachusetts is at the far left of the political spectrum compared to the other states in the Union.
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Old 08-10-2005, 07:18 PM   #105
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I am afriad for ever dollar pouring for Clinton, there will be 10 for the "IamnotClinton" option. Still she is one of the smartest, most sincere, and moral people I have ever meet.
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