2 theories (about ghosts and aliens) that I'm not sure of

[foray]

This began in DrTeeth's random thoughts thread in Lemonade but my thoughts just kept running.

I don't think I believe that ghosts exist, I think they are ploys of devils for us to deviate from our faith. This sounds radical, or not? I'm not sure if I believe in this theory but it makes a lot of sense. For eg, you know how you always hear of haunted places/houses where lots of folks die in? Or places that have an eerie feel to them? They aren't haunted by ghosts. They're just places that demons dwell in, and anyone who goes there gets influenced by the demons (whispers in the ears? whatever works) to kill themselves or others. What do you make of this theory? Of course, I guess you'd have to believe in it if you believed in the Bible which, to make another point, mentions nothing about ghosts but of demons.

The Good Book also does not mention aliens. There's a whole other Christian theory going on that aliens are yet another ploy by the devil to deviate humans from the Truth. Notice how alienmania has convinced people that the Bible is not true and has stirred a perverse fascination with third encounters. But most important of all, alienmania has made people lose sight of Jesus Christ. I was told to look up this verse that was supposed to suplicate this theory: (Genesis 6:3-5) The Nephilim were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown. The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. What do you think? And what is Nephilim? Angel or demon?

...

foray

 

[foray]

Oh yeah, I came across this URL http://www.dragonwood.com/support/bible/gen6-1-8.html but I know better than to trust any ol' thing on the Net.

foray

 

[hermes]

I have a number of different theories about ghost.

Keep in mind that they are from MY christian perspective.

1.I think many are demonic influences. For those of us who believe in such things. It makes alot of sense that demons would be atracted to mental and spiritual unrest and pain.

2. They could be spirits of the undead, we really don't know or certain how long it takes for our souls to go to the after life and what interim period there might be. But I'm not too inclined to this theory.


3. One of my favorite theories is that Ghost are burn marks in time. If your looking at everything from a multi-dimensional standpoint, time would be splayed out, an already happened event.

Ghost could be, I don't know the term, sort of fuzzy places or fractures in our dimensional view, wehre we can actually percieve different moments in time.

They could also be the dimensional equivolent of a looped tape, repeating an event over and over again.

Now, there's a spiritual aspect to this too, if your willing to follow a certain line of reasoning. Since we don't really know what the upper dimensions are, and can really only guess, what if the emotional/spiritual side is really just a dimension we either aren't percieving fully or just haven't defined yet. With most ghost sightings centering on horrific or sad events, they could actually be "burn marks" on the emoitional/spiritual dimension.

Of course, there probably won't ever be a way to disprove or prove ghost and the supernatural. I sort of like it that way.

------------------
Steve
Same Old Story-

 

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by foray:
This began in DrTeeth's random thoughts thread in Lemonade but my thoughts just kept running.

I don't think I believe that ghosts exist, I think they are ploys of devils for us to deviate from our faith. This sounds radical, or not?
foray

I've always felt this way. I believe in spiritual warfare, for sure, and I do believe in the "demonic ploys" theory.

 

[rougerum]

Most ghost reports are not of ghosts giving a negative effect at all, that is just the reputation ghost stories have given to people over the years, most ghost stories are stories of ghosts just being there showing there presence, not having any negative effects. Only in some cases do the ghosts actually have a negative affect. It is the idea of a ghost existing that scares people so people generally attribute ghosts to bad things when it is the other way around.

Alien species have already been found on Mars, even though they are microscopic creatures they are still aliens. Just not the alien type of form the media loves.

~rougerum

 

[Like O2]

Originally posted by rougerum:
To add I would like to say I don't see how higher forms of aliens couldn't exist.

It is obvious from that that I do not believe in any of Earth's monotheistic religions.

~rougerum

I don't think that your theory about higher forms equates with it being obvious that you don't believe in a monotheistic religion.

I agree with the ideas you set forth and I'm a cradle monotheistic religious type.

BTW, I really like this thread, interesting ideas.

More on what I believe re: ghosts when I have more time.

 

[rougerum]

You're right Like02, I didn't make it obvious at all, I was more thinking it in my own mind or maybe my going against Foray completely might have made it seem like I didn't believe in any of it but what I said didn't exactly show that it, so take my comment of not believing in any religions as something separate from what I said before it.

~rougerum

 

[socalu2fan]

Foray,

Check out http://www.khouse.org/articles/prophetic/19960101-43.html

Chuck Missler, whose website this is, has some pretty far out ideas but he was the first I heard to mention the Nephilim and Genesis 6, he even has a lecture called "The Return of the Nephilim" which refers exactly to what you were talking about. The great thing about Missler is that he doesn't expect you to blindly accept what he tells you, instead he gives you the call of the Bereans "to search the Scriptures" and find whether or not what he has said is biblical.

 

[missmacphisto]

Originally posted by rougerum:
Most ghost reports are not of ghosts giving a negative effect at all, that is just the reputation ghost stories have given to people over the years, most ghost stories are stories of ghosts just being there showing there presence, not having any negative effects. Only in some cases do the ghosts actually have a negative affect. It is the idea of a ghost existing that scares people so people generally attribute ghosts to bad things when it is the other way around.

Alien species have already been found on Mars, even though they are microscopic creatures they are still aliens. Just not the alien type of form the media loves.

~rougerum

Absolutely. I was gonna say almost the exact same thing myself.

I myself have never seen a ghost( well not that i can be sure of anyway), but ive been to several places where their presence can be felt. I 'll talk to people that have been there and theyll have experienced the same things i have, so it isnt my imagination. I'm skeptical though, so although i do believe in ghosts i still want to prove myself correct and look into it further.
As for aliens, i dont believe in the media type alien,but anything is possible, you never know.I *DO* know a thing or 2 about the military, however, and i can assure you that many of the supposed sightings are merely the government playing around with their latest toys.

------------------
Look...look what you've done to me...You've made me poor and infamous, and I thank you...

My name is MISS MACPHISTO...I'm tired and i want to go HOME...


[This message has been edited by Miss MacPhisto (edited 07-31-2001).]

 

[missmacphisto]

I know a little about area 51 too...

------------------
Look...look what you've done to me...You've made me poor and infamous, and I thank you...

My name is MISS MACPHISTO...I'm tired and i want to go HOME...

 

[rougerum]

To add I would like to say I don't see how higher forms of aliens couldn't exist. Given this argument:

There are approximately 100 billions stars in our galaxy alone, each star is a life-giving sun and there are approximately 100 billion galaxies in just the visible universe. Given a planet in stable orbit, not too hot and not too cold, and given a few billion years of chance chemical reactions created by the interaction of a sun's energy on the planet's chemicals, it's fairly certain that life in one form or another will eventually emerge. It's reasonable to assume that there must be, in fact, countless billions of such planets where biological life has arisen, and the odds of some proportion of such life developing intelligence are high. Now, the sun is by no means an old star, and its planets are mere children in cosmic age, so it seems likely that there are billions of planets in the universe not only where intelligent life is on a lower scale than man but other billions where it is approximately equal and others still where it is hundreds of thousands of millions years in advance of us. When you think of the giant technological strides that man has made in a few millenia - less than a microsecond in the chronology of the universe - can you imagine the evolutionary development that much older life forms have taken?

It is obvious from that that I do not believe in any of Earth's monotheistic religions.

~rougerum

 

[foray]

Originally posted by rougerum:

Alien species have already been found on Mars, even though they are microscopic creatures they are still aliens. Just not the alien type of form the media loves.

~rougerum

This doesn't mean that the alien forms aren't in fact demonic ploys. I'm not arguing about the existence of aliens, I do think they exist, most probably. I just don't think they could be from outer space, if you know what I mean. So, that whole paragraph you wrote trying to prove the existence of aliens wasn't really relevant.

foray

 

[foray]

hermes, I still don't get what you mean by burn marks. You mean you believe in the Quantum Leap kinda thing, that Time is not linear? So, if we see a ghost, it is just someone from the past, ilving the past, but in the present?

socalu2fan, thanks for the link, even if it is a rather suspicious one.

foray

 

[hermes]

Well, I suppose I am saying time isn't linear, not really.

In theory anyways...

We experience it starting from A going to B because we can't see above the dimensions we are living in.

But if we were able to view it from a higher dimension, we would see it all splayed out in front of us.

Whether it's one linear sequence, or like a Koch Snowflake, having infinite variations.

Imagine a comic book or comic strip. The character's inside them experience their lives from point A to point B, but because we are in a higher dimension, we are able to read the strip forwards, backwards, out from the middle, all at once, etc.

---

In regards to ghost, the ?burn marks? as I put it could be any abnormality that?s broken down the borders of what we can perceive. Whether it?s mental inside of us, caused by stress, hate, fear, love, pain, beauty, etc. Or an actual physical event.

Even if you believe in linear time, point A to B with no variations, which I don?t believe is the case, you don?t know how that linear time is structured.

Again, take the example of the comic strip. What if you were to take it and fold it up accordion style. The characters still experience linear time from A to B, but if they were able to see it from a higher level, they cold see that this linear line is folded upon itself. Then an event happens, that briefly let?s the characters see beyond their dimensional limitations and into the past or the future. And since I'm using the comic strip example, let?s say that this event is a water drop onto the cheap paper, causing a slight bit of panel A to bleed all the way into each consecutive panel.

The characters in the strip would still be perceiving linear time, but now have an apparition. They don?t know that it?s a physical event that?s happened. Just that someone or something is showing up where it shouldn?t be.
---

Foray: So, if we see a ghost, it is just someone from the past, living the past, but in the present?

If your like me and believe that time is more complex than a straight line, it gives some possibilities to think about. Ghost could be residue or apparitions from the past, alternate timelines, the future of our timeline, etc. (Although it?s interesting to note that not many ghost are perceived as from the future, at least none that I?ve heard about.)

Though when it comes to poltergeist interacting with our lives today, I?m little more suspicious of demonic influences, or psychic/spiritual dimensions of the human brain(if there?s a difference). But I probably have some strange religious views comparatively anyhow.

And there?s nothing to say poltergeist aren?t also where the barrier of what we can perceive has broken down farther to the point where we can interact with them and they?re barrier has broken down to where they can interact with us.

And of course all this is assuming Ghosts are anything more than stories or a form of hysteria. It?s all just theories that have been developing in an over-active brain for a long time. Ghost have special interest to me, I?ve seen a few, others were there on two occasions, I know others who have their own ghost stories.

But as to what Ghost are, I?m not willing to put a definite label on it.


---

I hope that makes some sort of sense, I just woke up not too long ago. If it doesn?t I?d be happy to clarify as best I can.


------------------
Steve
SAME OLD STORY- Hardcore American Comedy

[This message has been edited by hermes (edited 08-03-2001).]

 

[rougerum]

What the fuck is the difference of an alien being from another planet and an alien being from outer space. Either way with both, they come from outer space. I don't think aliens of our intelligence exist in our solar system, but I am fairly sure alien species of our intelligence or higher exist in other galaxies. With the information I gave in my second post, aliens like that not existing seems unlikely.

~rougerum

 

[Cathy]

Seeing this thread I have to tell you guys what happened to me last night. You can take from it what you will but I am telling you the truth.

The house I live in was built around 1886. It's quite old and many people have lived and died in it, including my grandmother who passed away a little over three years ago from ovarian cancer.

Before she died, my grandmother would sit up very late at night reading her scriptures or listening to church hymns to take her mind off her pain. Several times while she sat up, the door to the stairs, which is a sturdy door that shuts completely and holds well, would slowly open by itself, stay open a few moments and then close again by itself. I have always believed my grandmother because she was a very honest woman and also my brother witnessed the same thing early one morning as he was preparing for school.

I have never had any unusual experiences until last night and perhaps the summer before last. The summer before last I came downstairs late one night for a glass of water, closing the stair door behind me in a regular fashion, and after getting some water tried to go back upstairs except that the stair door wouldn't open. It was jammed as though it were locked, only the door does not lock. I tried with all my strength to get it open, using a knife and a screw driver to try and "unlock" it. Finally, it took both my grandfather and my uncle to pry the door open, nearly busting the thing in the process. I've always found this incident unusual because we've had absolutely no trouble with the door before or since. I'm still not sure what to think about it.

But what happened last night was quite strange and right now I can't explain it. I had stayed up late downloading music on the computer downstairs and around 1:30 I decided I'd better get some sleep. Everyone else had been asleep for several hours. I went upstairs to my bedroom and as I was about to pull back the covers I felt something crawling on my foot. It was a spider and stifling a scream so I wouldn't wake up anyone else (I hate spiders!) I flung it off my foot and saw it crawl under my bed. I grabbed a flashlight and some bug spray and knelt on my hands and knees next to the bed to see if I could find it to kill it because I sure didn't want that thing crawling on me when I was sleeping.

I had left my bedroom door just slightly ajar and was quite surprised when I heard a knock on the door and the door begin to open by itself. I jumped up, ran to the door, and flung the door the rest of the way open expecting to see one of my family members but there was no one. Quickly looking about, I could see no one on the landing or in the bathroom. I checked the bedrooms and everyone was sound asleep.

I then thought it must have been my little Pomeranian, but after seeing her downstairs, I knew that there was no way her short little legs could have carried her all the way down the stairs before I had a chance to see her or at least hear her. I wondered if it could have been a draft but my door is solid wood with a heavy mirror on one side and it would have taken a noticeably strong wind to push it open.

I know it sounds unbelievable and you probably won't believe me especially coming across the internet, but that is what happened. I would be more than happy to hear any logical explanation someone might offer because right now I can't think of any.

I believe in ghosts, as to what exactly I believe a ghost is I will have to go into later because I have already typed too much and I'm out of time.

 

[Ratch]

I believe you Cathy! Weird stuff like that has happened to me too. Sometimes there just is no other explaination and we just have to say, oh well, that was weird but it had to be a ghost! I believe in them too, I really do. I want to tell them sometime when I feel like writing a long story, I really want to get it right. Thanks Cathy, I enjoyed reading your story.

 

[Ratch]

What are ghosts but the spirits of those who have passed on? If you believe in souls and the afterlife how could you deny the possiblity of ghosts?

Now, aliens. So the Good Book doesn't mention them, huh? What about Ezekiel being taken to Heaven in a flaming chariot? Could that not have been a flying craft? How would the primitive thinking peoples of those days describe something they did not understand and had never seen, by comparing it to something they had seen, like a chariot. A flying flaming chariot sounds like some sort of machine operated flying craft to me. But even though that is just speculation that has been rehashed in several 'books of weird things', we don't know for sure!

Also on the subject of aliens not being mentioned in the Good Book: neither are computers, cars, or the entire Western Hemisphere, but that doesn't mean they don't exist, does it? Maybe we weren't supposed to be told all. Maybe some things were for God to know and us to find out!!

------------------
I B 4 U2!

 

[foray]

Originally posted by rougerum:
What the fuck is the difference of an alien being from another planet and an alien being from outer space. ~rougerum

You didn't have to be rude, rougerum. Have some manners, I have never ever been rude to you, nor have I used 'fuck' when talking to you.

I have never said that there is a difference between those two, of course. You clearly misunderstood. What my point was: that aliens exist, but they are not from outer space; they are demons instead i.e the whole alienmania thing has been invented by the devil to confuse people. I hope 80sU2isbest could explain it better, if I can't, since he seems to understand this reasoning. However, in my first post, I said that I wasn't sure whether I believe this, it was a theory flying in the air around me but I am willing to question it to see if I can believe it or not.

foray

 

[rougerum]

You'd be surprised to how much I use fuck in my daily talk so don't take any offense, if I wanted to insult you, it would be much worse and you would know it in a second like a person can identify bad taste.

I want to know how you possibly believe aliens are actually demons. I never ever heard of aliens being created by the devil to confuse people in my life. Thats is something completely new to me. I still think what I said is the most right since it seems the most probable, yours is just a belief with not much to back it up. People believe in god but no one can prove he exists. I will respect your opinion but go for the most probable.

~rougerum

 

[kariatari]

First of all, let me say that I am a Christian.

I'm not sure whether I belive in ghosts or the undead, probably because I've never had any experiences with them. I do however believe in extra-terrestrial life forms. It just doesn't seem possible to me that out of the whole ENTIRE universe, Earth is the only planet that is able to support life. Keep in mind that the universe spans unfathomable light years beyond our solar system. Just because other extra-terrestrial civilizations are not mentioned in the Bible doesn't mean that they don't exist.

An interesting thought just occurred to me right now: What if there is another civilization on another planet in the far reaches of the universe that have Christians that have been touched by God in the way many people on earth have been, and that have their own Bible that maybe tells about Jesus's life on EARTH?

Has anybody else ever thought of this, or am I just on crack?

 

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by foray:
I hope 80sU2isbest could explain it better, if I can't, since he seems to understand this reasoning.
foray

Hi, of course, I'm no expert in the matter of aliens, but here's what I believe. While I do not think that ET aliens exist, it's not something that would rock my world if I found out that they do. However, I do have strong beliefs about them.
I believe in God, who is all good. I believe in Satan, who is completely evil. But Satan is not some "evil god" as some seem to think. He is no god at all. He is a created being, like the rest of us. He is a fallen angel, cast out of Heaven by the great war angel, Michael. As such, he is very limited n what he can do. He can't force us to follow his evil path, so what does he do? He sends us secret messages - whispers in our ears. He tells us to do evil things. But he's full of lies. The lies he tells us are commonplace; (1)No one loves us, not even God (2)In fact, God doesn't exist (3)Go ahead and sin, you're human. But among his lies, I think the chief lie, his crowning achievement is this; "Satan Does Not Exist". He's got the world fooled. We're all running around thinking that this life is all there is, or that evil is just a figment of our imgination. So, he's got us right where he wants us, for if we don't believe in him, he's got free reign to torture our minds, day and night. And if we don't believe in him, we certainly won't recognize him when we see him. So he sends his demon minions out to get us to concentrate on other things besides himsef and his arch enemy, my Savior Jesus Christ. One way is through the occult. If he can get people to open up a door, he's gonna walk right in. So, he uses Tarot readers, Ouija Boards, Mediums, and other Spiritualists who convince us that they've somehow made contact with the dead. The Bible warns against these occult practices. But Satan uses these black arts to entice his people subtly but surely into following his path that leads only to destruction. I believe with every ounce of my being that many people are not lying - they do indeed see apparitions, what they think are ghosts, but I call them demons trying to fool us. I think that just might be the case with ET aliens, also. While the Bible doesn't mention alien activity, it seems to fit Satan's profile to me. I look at this life as a war, because that's what it is. Not a war with each other, not with flesh and blood, but a war betwen the supernatural forces of good and evil. There's a whole other existence going on here, one we can't see, but as real as you and I. Angels and demons are all around, and they're fighting for our souls. I believe that everyone of us is involved in this war, whether we like that fact or not. I would rather not have to deal with Satan and his minions, but in this life, I must take a stand for he who laid down his life for me.

[This message has been edited by 80sU2isBest (edited 08-11-2001).]

 

[missmacphisto]

Anyone who wants to see a ghost should probably take a trip to Gurdon or Crosset, Arkansas. Sice 1930, thousands of people have seen this ghost light and no one can come up witha rational explanation for it. It is supposed to be the ghost of a brakeman beheaded in a train accident, although i heard one guy who had seen it recently say that it was the ghost of a motorcyclist.
It still can be seen every other night or so,I'm told.

Also, I live near Hollywood, and there are MANY ghosts here!!!! (And little devils, hee hee!

)
They say even the town itself is haunted,something to do with the Indians, i think.
I do know for sure that the Queen Mary in Long Beach is haunted. You go there, and damn...you can just FEEL it. Its very ethereal. I ran into a lady in Kentucky who had been there, and she said the same thing, mentioned it to me, i wasnt even gonna bring up the subject of the ghosts there.
------------------
Look...look what you've done to me...You've made me poor and infamous, and I thank you...

My name is MISS MACPHISTO...I'm tired and i want to go HOME...

[This message has been edited by Miss MacPhisto (edited 08-10-2001).]

 

[foray]

Thanks 80sU2isbest, you said it better than I did.

foray

 

[+Laura+]

All I have to say about ghosts is that, being evil (if such actually energy exists), they are no good to see or feel. My entire family, including me, is sensitive. Like, i can see, hear, and feel presences, something that i look forward to get free of.
about aliens I dont think that they are something evil at all. I wonder if these
'aliens' are us in a far future, when we get to dominate the technique of controlling the time. Or even a massive projection of our unconscious... who knows...


------------------
*+*Laura*+*
Mrs.rougerum
(definately the better half!)

 

[adam's_mistress]

Originally posted by Miss MacPhisto:
I do know for sure that the Queen Mary in Long Beach is haunted. You go there, and damn...you can just FEEL it. Its very ethereal. I ran into a lady in Kentucky who had been there, and she said the same thing, mentioned it to me, i wasnt even gonna bring up the subject of the ghosts there.

Miss MacPhisto, I've been to the Queen Mary on several occassions starting when I was 8 years old and I know exactly what you mean. I just might not have the right words to emote. There is something very eerie about that place and although I've never seen any ghosts floating about, there is something that just "feels" heavy and a bit foreboading yet very unsettling about the ship. Especially the boiler room. It's not something I can explain, it's just something I feel. You and I aren't alone in feeling this way so at least we aren't insane, right?

That place is a parapsychologist's dream, and there's been legitimate and documented cases regarding paranormal activities at the Queen Mary over the years.

 

[adam's_mistress]

This is a thread that really intrigues me personally. It's awesome too - so many different takes on a subject most people write off as hogwash.

I have more than a couple of stories to clog up this forum, but I'll digress for now unless some of you want a late night bedtime story.

I'll just say that my first inexplicable paranormal experience happened to me when I had just turned 4 years old. I can descirbe what happened in detail, and so can my parents and brother who were present at the time... but we can not for the lives of us, give a reasonable explanation as to what exactly occurred. (that probably doesn't make any sense... but...) Though I think it's easy to chock what happened to me at 4 years old as another ghost story, I feel that it's hard to explain or describe to just anybody given it's weird inexplicable nature. The same goes with a lot of paranormal activity. Like I said up above, there's a lot of folks out there that say it's all hogwash.

So anyway.

After that big mess of words I wrote, I have a few inquiries regarding Catholicism and excorcism. This is something that has always been fascinating to me so I though I might as well take the opportunity to field some questions.

Is there an explanation for it other than demonic presence in the human body, or is there perhaps a deeper meaning as to why certain people are chosen by these supposed exorcists? And how about the act of an exorcism - what things must be addressed by a priest before he makes a final assesssment and performs an excorcism - are there guidelines he must adhere to in order to make an assessment as to whether or not an exorcism will be performed? How often, if ever, are they performed and by what order of priests may perform them? Using past exorcisms, what "kind" of person is the most afflicted by excorcists... children, teens, adults, seniors? And last but not least, how is a priest "trained" in the field of exorcism(s)?

I know that's a lot to ask, but I'm just curious. *shrugs*

 

[foray]

I don't know much exactly about exorcism as I'm not Catholic. All I learnt about the subject I learnt from the movie. However, I do have a close friend who was possessed by demons, he was Catholic then. He was persuaded to go to an Anglican church where they prayed for him and he went berserk for a few minutes, but after that he was purged of it. He's been a Protestant ever since. That's one story.

foray

 

[Like O2]

**thinks this thread is a ghost**

Wow, this one is back? Good, I liked it the first time, meant to post my ghost story, never got around to it.

Maybe I will just in time for Halloween.

 

[missmacphisto]

Originally posted by adam's_mistress:
Miss MacPhisto, I've been to the Queen Mary on several occassions starting when I was 8 years old and I know exactly what you mean.

Whoa, cool! Glad to hear there are others.

Actually i met this older lady in a gift shop at the Kentucky Derby Museum a few years ago, she noticed my Queen Mary t-shirt and asked me if i could feel the presence and if i had heard the stories. I couldnt belive it at the time, i had thought i was the only one. There is definitely something there, i need to spend the night and try and find out.

http://www.queenmary.com http://www.ghostsandlegends.com

------------------
Look...look what you've done to me...You've made me poor and infamous, and I thank you...

My name is MISS MACPHISTO...I'm tired and i want to go HOME...

"Well you tell...Bonovista,that i said hello and that my codename is Belleview" - Bono before opening night of Anaheim Elevation concert

[This message has been edited by Miss MacPhisto (edited 10-28-2001).]