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Old 07-01-2007, 04:30 PM   #91
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But if the younger party is consenting (im not talking about 14, im talking 16) then that isn't the issue. Whether at 16 some or many can't become properly invested in a serious relationship is irrelevent.

Example of an acquaintance who started dating a guy in his late 30's when she was in high school and still with him five years later, a perfectly normal couple with an age difference when they started that would fall under the bad category in other parts of the world. Perhaps a sharp legal mind could explain how much discretion is allowed in the spectrum between child abuse and a consensual sexual relationship.
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Old 07-01-2007, 04:30 PM   #92
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at the parents.

at the sleaze.
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Old 07-01-2007, 05:59 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer


Example of an acquaintance who started dating a guy in his late 30's when she was in high school and still with him five years later, a perfectly normal couple with an age difference when they started that would fall under the bad category in other parts of the world. Perhaps a sharp legal mind could explain how much discretion is allowed in the spectrum between child abuse and a consensual sexual relationship.
How is this example similar to a teacher dating a student?
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Old 07-01-2007, 08:50 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

So? Oh no a 16 year old is pissed off at his parents, that's something new...


Not sure what a Sheila is... But 19-22 is completely different from 14-16.


There's also a huge lack of emotional maturity, big disadvantage.


So the difference from 16 to 25 becomes bank accounts? Come on. Give me something, you're reaching...


This is bullshit...
The older a couple is, the more likely it is that the union has developed out of a desperate need to find a partner quick. Whether it be because the woman is getting too old to have kids, to satisfy some " 'you-must-marry' old school" parents, or to marry into financial security.

With mid-teens, relationships are usually based on a genuine physical or emotional desire to be with someone.

Is there really something wrong about a relationship between a 22 year old and a 15 year old?

Who is likely to be more emotionally capable and mature at handling or entering a relationship? An 18 year old girl who has already been involved in a 2 year sexual and emotional relationship with someone, or a 31 year old never-been-kissed virgin who is petrified of speaking to the opposite sex.
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Old 07-01-2007, 09:25 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by intedomine


The older a couple is, the more likely it is that the union has developed out of a desperate need to find a partner quick. Whether it be because the woman is getting too old to have kids, to satisfy some " 'you-must-marry' old school" parents, or to marry into financial security.
This is bullshit. You're comparing 15 year olds with 40 year olds, what about everything in between?

Quote:
Originally posted by intedomine

With mid-teens, relationships are usually based on a genuine physical or emotional desire to be with someone.
Emphasis on the physical part...

Quote:
Originally posted by intedomine

Is there really something wrong about a relationship between a 22 year old and a 15 year old?
What would any 22 year old have in common with a 15 year old? I would have to question the maturity or the intent of any 22 year old dating someone in high school.

Quote:
Originally posted by intedomine

Who is likely to be more emotionally capable and mature at handling or entering a relationship? An 18 year old girl who has already been involved in a 2 year sexual and emotional relationship with someone, or a 31 year old never-been-kissed virgin who is petrified of speaking to the opposite sex.
What the hell does this have to do with anything?
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Old 07-02-2007, 01:36 AM   #96
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Let's keep it calm with the discussions here, huh...there aren't really extreme enough questions to get highly agitated about.
Quote:
Originally posted by intedomine
The older a couple is, the more likely it is that the union has developed out of a desperate need to find a partner quick. Whether it be because the woman is getting too old to have kids, to satisfy some " 'you-must-marry' old school" parents, or to marry into financial security.
I see from your profile that you're 21. How many recently married older couples do you know, and know well? I'm 36, have seen a lot of friends and coworkers and relatives in the 30-50 age group get married over the last several years, and I don't get the impression from that, that these "desperate need" scenarios you speak of are very common at all (nor do I know of any sociological data that supports that they are). On the contrary, I'd say the more common pattern seems to be that these relationships are already several years old before they turn into marriage (and for that matter, it's not infrequently a second marriage for one or both partners). I can't think of an instance where rushing into it because the woman was nearing menopause, or 'old school' parents were pushing for it (not many people my age have that sort of dependence on their parents nowadays anyhow), or dire need for a serious cash infusion on the part of either partner appeared to play any role. You almost come across as if you assume 'older' people getting married for the first time must be basket cases in some way or another that they hadn't gotten around to it sooner, or perhaps (formerly) hellbent-on-permanent-singlehood types who recently experienced a total collapse of self-confidence and thus threw all caution to the winds.
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With mid-teens, relationships are usually based on a genuine physical or emotional desire to be with someone.
Relationships, period, are usually based on that, in Western societies anyhow. Of course 'genuine' doesn't always mean mature or healthy, but to be fair that can be true at any age, too.

Again, it almost sounds as if you think 'older' people must necessarily be driven by all kinds of wildly dysfunctional motives in their romantic lives, otherwise they'd surely have found 'genuine' love sooner. I suspect the response of most 'older' people to that would be that they've already had several relationships from their teen years onward as it is, thank you very much, and in fact they trust themselves a lot more now to be ready to commit to sharing the rest of their lives with someone than they did at 18 and certainly at 15; that they have a clearer-eyed view from experience of what their own flaws as a companion are, what kinds of fulfillment anyone other than themselves will never be able give them and thus shouldn't be expected from a romance, and so on. Does that mean all teenaged relationships are 'doomed' not to have those qualities, or that all 'adult' relationships will automatically have them; no, obviously not. But I don't think you'll find too many 'older' people lamenting that they sure wish they could know 'genuine' love again like they did in their teenage years, and that now that they're older it's all become one long sordid tale of desperation and ticking biological clocks and an inability to recapture what 'desiring' someone 'genuinely' feels like.
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Is there really something wrong about a relationship between a 22 year old and a 15 year old?
Not intrinsically, no. On the other hand, 'marriageable age' worldwide is generally based on what by consensus is seen as the average minimum age at which a person is ready to assume adult responsibilities as that society understands them. Are you OK with 15-year-olds being subject to the draft, for example? Being fully financially responsible for themselves (whether they want to be or not)? In the US at least, many states require you to be in school until age 18 (some states allow you to leave at 16 with parental permission). And in most all states, your parents are still legally responsible for you until age 18. How far would you be willing to go to change those things in the interests of letting 15-year-olds marry whomever they want, whenever they want? I think most Americans would agree with Irvine that there are few good reasons for not waiting until you've at least attained the age of majority (and completed high school) to get married. Your partner isn't going to disappear off the face of the earth.



As far as the legal issues surrounding the case in question, those are pretty cut-and-dried really--the marriage itself broke no laws. But I'm still dumbfounded that this school's principal found "nothing inappropriate" in his employee regularly giving one of his 14-year-old charges of the opposite sex private rides home, and text-messaging her at 2 AM. Legality before the state--in the abstract sense of their ages only--is one thing; the professional appropriateness of a coach dating his 14-year-old student is something else. Like I said earlier, your students are not there (and a captive, paying audience at that) in order to to supplement your social circle and dating pool. And not many people could honestly say they perceived their relationships to their teachers in high school no differently than they perceived those to their peers--there's almost always a felt level of beholdenness, and a presumption of overall life competence, with the former that there wouldn't be with the latter.
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Old 07-02-2007, 02:11 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
I see from your profile that you're 21. How many recently married older couples do you know, and know well? I'm 36, have seen a lot of friends and coworkers and relatives in the 30-50 age group get married over the last several years, and I don't get the impression from that, that these "desperate need" scenarios you speak of are very common at all (nor do I know of any sociological data that supports that they are). On the contrary, I'd say the more common pattern seems to be that these relationships are already several years old before they turn into marriage (and for that matter, it's not infrequently a second marriage for one or both partners). I can't think of an instance where rushing into it because the woman was nearing menopause, or 'old school' parents were pushing for it (not many people my age have that sort of dependence on their parents nowadays anyhow), or dire need for a serious cash infusion on the part of either partner appeared to play any role. You almost come across as if you assume 'older' people getting married for the first time must be basket cases in some way or another that they hadn't gotten around to it sooner, or perhaps (formerly) hellbent-on-permanent-singlehood types who recently experienced a total collapse of self-confidence and thus threw all caution to the winds.

Relationships, period, are usually based on that, in Western societies anyhow. Of course 'genuine' doesn't always mean mature or healthy, but to be fair that can be true at any age, too.

Again, it almost sounds as if you think 'older' people must necessarily be driven by all kinds of wildly dysfunctional motives in their romantic lives, otherwise they'd surely have found 'genuine' love sooner.


As far as the legal issues surrounding the case in question, those are pretty cut-and-dried really--the marriage itself broke no laws.
Good post.

Note that I said, older couples might be MORE LIKELY to get hitched due to reasons other than love (children, financial security, social pressure). I'm not saying that all older folk are married for these reasons. While it's true I do not socialise as frequently with folk in their 30-40s than folks in their teens and twenties, I just sense that older couples can sometimes view their wedlock as a sense of obligation (can't turn back the clock, stay together for the kids, no one else will want me) than a 100% willing commitment.

Also regarding marriage. While I think it's a grand and appealing concept, it certainly is NOT for everyone. Of every 100 couples (of any age) that might exist, it might not be too drastic to suggest that 30-40 of those couples would have been better off not ever marrying someone, and they often might feel this way. This is purely speculative though. That said, shame on society and our history for expecting folk to get married. The idea of a bastard child as being inferior or "lacking" in some way is an idea that should be entirely annihilated for the sake of humanity.

For me, there is nothing quite like young love (or a young person being in love) and experiencing the physical and emotional rollercoaster ride in their mid-teens. They should not be deterred. Experience things when you are young.

The issue has probably been sidetracked by a few of us so maybe it should get back on track. But ultimately, if there is nothing legally wrong with the impending marriage at hand, then we all probably have no right to object, especially if none of us really know anything about the couple. We're just playing around with numbers
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Old 07-02-2007, 02:34 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally posted by intedomine


The issue has probably been sidetracked by a few of us so maybe it should get back on track. But ultimately, if there is nothing legally wrong with the impending marriage at hand, then we all probably have no right to object, especially if none of us really know anything about the couple. We're just playing around with numbers
Yet you keep forgetting he's her teacher. What part of that do you not understand?
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Old 07-02-2007, 07:00 AM   #99
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


How is this example similar to a teacher dating a student?
It's not, and I thought that everybody here was against people in positions of authority abusing that power for sexual gains (apparently as in this case). What I was saying is that at 16 if somebody wants to have sex with a 40 year old it shouldn't be against the law.
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Old 07-03-2007, 01:07 AM   #100
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