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Old 06-28-2007, 02:47 AM   #76
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OK I don't care what anyone says. That's just messed up.

I don't even see why this needs to discussed, really. It's so messed up it's not even debateable in any way.
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Old 06-28-2007, 09:12 PM   #77
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If there is genuine love between the 40 year old and the 16 year old, I can't see much wrong.

What if you've got a 40 year old with the character, spirit and looks of a 25 year old and a 16 year old with the character, spirit and looks of a 25 year old. There's no reason why they can't share a similar maturity and embark on a strong relationship.

Mind you, I've alwaysbeen one to struggle to identify any immorality or "wrong-ness" in relationships where there might be a significant age difference between a couple.

Love will and should come through, regardless of the petty issue of age difference.

Feel free to savage me, but I'm just unable to see anything "wrong" about such a relationship.
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Old 06-28-2007, 10:56 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by intedomine
If there is genuine love between the 40 year old and the 16 year old, I can't see much wrong.

What if you've got a 40 year old with the character, spirit and looks of a 25 year old and a 16 year old with the character, spirit and looks of a 25 year old. There's no reason why they can't share a similar maturity and embark on a strong relationship.

Mind you, I've alwaysbeen one to struggle to identify any immorality or "wrong-ness" in relationships where there might be a significant age difference between a couple.

Love will and should come through, regardless of the petty issue of age difference.

Feel free to savage me, but I'm just unable to see anything "wrong" about such a relationship.
You keep overlooking the HUGE issue that he is an authority figure over her... How can you not see wrong with that?
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Old 06-28-2007, 11:50 PM   #79
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Whether it's morally wrong or not I can't say with 100% certainty. More like... 99.9999% certainty. I have seen a lot of relationships between two people who shared a much smaller age difference and they always ended disasterously. My first judgment on this relationship would be that it's most likely a case pedophelia.

The reason I don't think this should be legal is because the chances of this being an honest, mature and intelligent relationship are just so miniscule. A 16 year old is not capable of making decisions so important. Most girls at this age are so idealistic and inexperienced they shouldn't legally be able to make decisions like this. There are hundreds (maybe thousands) of pedophiles out there who would just LOVE to get their hands on a girl this age.

Using the "age is just a number" logic can get you in a ton of trouble. A 16 year old girl is a child. Maybe one in a million has the maturity of a 25 year old. But we can't be so idealistic as to allow these things because the relationship has a one in a million chance of actually working. Things just can't be run that way.

Should a 10 year old boy be able to marry a 50 year old woman? Age is just a number, right?
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Old 06-29-2007, 02:51 AM   #80
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I'm probably coming from a different set of values and experiences, but I personally think 16 year olds are of a more heightened maturity then society tends to stereotype them as.

There is an age where the loose "age is just a number" concept cannot apply, but I think 16 is perhaps too high. I'm thinking that anything 14 and under is when moral questioning should be undertaken and that a case of peadophilia might indeed be at hand.

And I did overlook the issue of authority before, and again I'm coming from another mindset all together, but I've always felt that for kids over 13, teacher's should no longer necessarily be figures of authority but figures of support. Tutorers more so than teachers if you like. I feel that teens would enjoy and get more out of their learning experience if the educators were more friendly with the students, rather than being the traditional "mean, old bossy boots" Guidance officers if you like, and ones who don't mark student exams And a good guidance officer is not one would take advantage of someone who might lack maturity.

But it's a contentious issue. I respect your views, and I might be strongly influenced (biased) by my long held grievance that people in their mid-teens are becomingly increasingly more patronised and dismissed by their elders. They still can't vote for bloody sake!
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Old 06-29-2007, 03:13 AM   #81
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I was 16 when I met Mr. Brown and he was 31 and we've been married 24 years though they are even 10 years more age difference than us.
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Old 06-29-2007, 07:55 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally posted by intedomine

There is an age where the loose "age is just a number" concept cannot apply, but I think 16 is perhaps too high. I'm thinking that anything 14 and under is when moral questioning should be undertaken and that a case of peadophilia might indeed be at hand.

They started dating when she was 14....
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Old 06-29-2007, 08:49 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally posted by intedomine
I'm probably coming from a different set of values and experiences, but I personally think 16 year olds are of a more heightened maturity then society tends to stereotype them as.

There is an age where the loose "age is just a number" concept cannot apply, but I think 16 is perhaps too high. I'm thinking that anything 14 and under is when moral questioning should be undertaken and that a case of peadophilia might indeed be at hand.
From what experience or values do you come from where you think kids of 15 are emotionally capable of these types of relationships?
Quote:
Originally posted by intedomine

And I did overlook the issue of authority before, and again I'm coming from another mindset all together, but I've always felt that for kids over 13, teacher's should no longer necessarily be figures of authority but figures of support. Tutorers more so than teachers if you like. I feel that teens would enjoy and get more out of their learning experience if the educators were more friendly with the students, rather than being the traditional "mean, old bossy boots" Guidance officers if you like, and ones who don't mark student exams And a good guidance officer is not one would take advantage of someone who might lack maturity.

Authority figure doesn't equal "mean, old bossy boots", and you are right a GOOD guidance officer wouldn't take advantage, but as you and I know they aren't all good.

I'm very good friends with my boss, but I understand the lines that are there due to our work relationship. I also had teachers that I was very close with, but once again understood the lines of the relationship.
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Old 06-29-2007, 02:52 PM   #84
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well, I definitely agree with you on your second point about how young people are patronized. I'm in college and I've felt man times that the younger students in the class (including me) were treated much differently than the older students (some in their 40's). My last math teacher would constantly yell at the younger people for talking even a tiny bit (I didn't even notice they were talking until he had coniption fits about it). But when the adults did the same thing, but worse, he just looked at themwith a sort of awkward smile on his face. A lot of these teachers know what they can get away with, and they take advantage of it.

The way to help students is to provide them with help and information as they need it. Not dump busy work on them, push silly rules on them and treat them like imbeciles. It's ridiculous how a lot of my professors treat their students. And I'm talking young people even in their early twenties.

But about 16 year olds, yeah, I agree they're getting more mature. In a way. I know a LOT of young people around 15-18 and I find them extremely immature and silly sometimes regarding important things.
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Old 06-29-2007, 03:49 PM   #85
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ultimately, we cannot allow each 16 year old to decide for him/herself whether or not they are mature enough to decide to be able to participate in an adult relationship with someone significantly older. i can look back at myself at 16, and if some hot athletic 30 year old guy at the gym wanted to have a relationship with me, i'd like to think that i would have been able to make a good decision at the time. but i might have been wrong. so, as a society, we have basically determined a specific age when one is considered an adult: 18. and it makes sense -- at the age of 18 you have presumably finished the education the state is required to provide you. you can vote, you can drive a car, you can buy cigaretts and porn and get a credit card and you can be drafted and have your legs blown off. (but you still can't have a beer). so it makes sense, then, that if you are entrusted with all this responsibility at 18, then you ought to be able to pick and choose your sexual partners so long as they, too, are adults.

the cut-off line is somewhat arbitrary, but it seems to me that there's more logic to 18 than to 16.

is it possible that these two will be in love and stay together forever? of course. but this exception doesn't do anything to alleviate the great potential for the abuse of power by an authority figure, and that's a greater concern to me than the possibility that we're keeping two individuals -- one of whom is a child -- apart. for 2 years.

for the life of me i don't see why they couldn't have waited until she was 18.
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Old 06-29-2007, 07:46 PM   #86
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is it possible that these two will be in love and stay together forever? of course. but this exception doesn't do anything to alleviate the great potential for the abuse of power by an authority figure, and that's a greater concern to me than the possibility that we're keeping two individuals -- one of whom is a child -- apart. for 2 years.

for the life of me i don't see why they couldn't have waited until she was 18.
Bingo. If this girl is so mature, wouldn't she be willing to wait two years? The fact that she is insisting on getting married right now and won't listen to anyone tells me she isn't that mature. Of course there's no guarantee she will automatically become more mature upon reaching the age of 18, but at least there's a chance.
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Old 07-01-2007, 06:58 AM   #87
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From what experience or values do you come from where you think kids of 15 are emotionally capable of these types of relationships?

If someone forced me to end a relationship with an older woman, merely because of my age, I would have been furious.

When I was 15-16, there were a lot of sheilas going out with blokes around 19-22. They were not mere sexual relationships, they were proper relationships based on love and sex and faith and fear and all the things that keep us here. Some of those couples are still kicking on. Age shall not weary or deny them...

If anything, it is the advantage of youth that will can make an individual better at entering a relationship with someone. At 15-16-17, there is no pressure to marry by a certain age, no birth-clock, and the advantage of fresh and updated sexual education.

You're more likely to enter a relationship with someone who you really want, rather than someone you just wanna marry so you can share a bank account, or in an urgency to have kids, only for a marriage to deteriorate a few years later and for everything to end in tears, not just for the couple, but also for the kids.

And 15-16-17 year olds, at least in my experience, never viewed someone as eligable for the fact that they might have money or their parents might be rich. They valued the person more than their fortune (or lack of).
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Old 07-01-2007, 01:46 PM   #88
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If someone forced me to end a relationship with an older woman, merely because of my age, I would have been furious.
So? Oh no a 16 year old is pissed off at his parents, that's something new...

Quote:
Originally posted by intedomine

When I was 15-16, there were a lot of sheilas going out with blokes around 19-22. They were not mere sexual relationships, they were proper relationships based on love and sex and faith and fear and all the things that keep us here. Some of those couples are still kicking on. Age shall not weary or deny them...
Not sure what a Sheila is... But 19-22 is completely different from 14-16.

Quote:
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If anything, it is the advantage of youth that will can make an individual better at entering a relationship with someone. At 15-16-17, there is no pressure to marry by a certain age, no birth-clock, and the advantage of fresh and updated sexual education.
There's also a huge lack of emotional maturity, big disadvantage.

Quote:
Originally posted by intedomine

You're more likely to enter a relationship with someone who you really want, rather than someone you just wanna marry so you can share a bank account, or in an urgency to have kids, only for a marriage to deteriorate a few years later and for everything to end in tears, not just for the couple, but also for the kids.
So the difference from 16 to 25 becomes bank accounts? Come on. Give me something, you're reaching...

Quote:
Originally posted by intedomine

And 15-16-17 year olds, at least in my experience, never viewed someone as eligable for the fact that they might have money or their parents might be rich. They valued the person more than their fortune (or lack of).
This is bullshit...
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Old 07-01-2007, 02:47 PM   #89
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Kids have sex, 16 seems to be as good as any time to make it legal, abuse of authority is an entirely different matter than a 16 year old having sex with a 40 year old. And as far as manipulative and warped relationships go is it really the duty of the law to prevent them?

If only the naturally annoying nature of teenage girls was able to repel more of the time.
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Old 07-01-2007, 04:17 PM   #90
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And as far as manipulative and warped relationships go is it really the duty of the law to prevent them?

It's the law's duty to protect children.
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