14,000 Iraqis killed so far in 2006 - Page 4 - U2 Feedback

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Old 07-19-2006, 12:27 PM   #46
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
If the course of action didn't yield benefits and did significantly more harm and left more risk than inaction it could be justified leaving Saddam in power, even with what has gone on in Iraq following Saddams fall I don't think that was or is the case.


i think this sets up a false dichotomy:

Saddam stays in power vs. saddam had to be removed in March of 2003 by the US and the UK without a UN resolution authorizing the use of force.

i support the removal of Saddam. i did not support the actions taken by the US and the UK in 2002/3 that lead to the illegal invasion of Iraq. it was the manner in which the invasion took place, combined with an underestimation of the potential insurgency, a foolishly optimistic reading of the Iraqi people (greet us with like the Dutch in 1944 and all that), intentionally bad evidence engineered to frighten the American population, a total lack of post-war plan, and a complete disregard for the history of the region.

the amount of evidence we have that details just how egregriously unprepared and willfully delusional the Bush administration has been makes it impossible to brush the past 3 years of carnage aside as "stuff happens."
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Old 07-19-2006, 12:44 PM   #47
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How was the figure compiled though? Was it just totaling up reports from the media and various morgues, or did the UN send investigative forensic teams to verify the name, body, and cause of death for each person in the report? There are accurate statistics on the deaths of coalition forces because such a verification process is done. Without going through such a process at a minimum, such figures could be over or under estimates of the true number of deaths.


[q]BAGHDAD, Iraq, July 19 — An average of more than 100 civilians a day were killed in Iraq last month, the United Nations reported Tuesday, registering what appears to be the highest official monthly tally of violent deaths since the fall of Baghdad.

Iraqis mourned one of the 53 killed Tuesday when a car bomb exploded in Kufa, a town in the south that is the site of a major Shiite shrine.

The death toll, drawn from Iraqi government agencies, was the most precise measurement of civilian deaths provided by any government organization since the invasion. It represented a substantial increase over the figures in daily news media reports.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/19/wo...rtner=homepage

[/q]
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Old 07-19-2006, 01:12 PM   #48
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[q]BAGHDAD, Iraq, July 19 — An average of more than 100 civilians a day were killed in Iraq last month, the United Nations reported Tuesday, registering what appears to be the highest official monthly tally of violent deaths since the fall of Baghdad.

Iraqis mourned one of the 53 killed Tuesday when a car bomb exploded in Kufa, a town in the south that is the site of a major Shiite shrine.

The death toll, drawn from Iraqi government agencies, was the most precise measurement of civilian deaths provided by any government organization since the invasion. It represented a substantial increase over the figures in daily news media reports.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/19/wo...rtner=homepage

[/q]
This shows the UN is simply using information provided by the Iraqi Ministry Of Health and the Baghdad Morgue. Its not specified exactly what type of investigative procedure those two organizations do to accurately identify and determine cause of death for the people that have died at the Hospital or have been placed at the morgue. Iraq is a country of 25 million people, and not everyone that is killed is killed because of sectarian violence or violence related to the occupation. Even if the figures are accurate, how long have the two organizations been providing such accurate figures? The increase in the number of deaths could be the result of a more accurate and complete accounting of all deaths than had been done previous to this time period.
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Old 07-19-2006, 01:20 PM   #49
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What the fundamentalists actually want is a return of the caliphate, which was abolished by Ataturk in 1924 to make the new Republic of Turkey a secular state. Also the caliph was supporting the disgraced Sultan, the sultanate had been abolished in 1922. The fundamentalists don't like Turkey because it is secular. They want the Islamic world unified under a caliph, a religious ruler, just as it was in the beginning after Mohammed died (the word caliph comes from an Arabic word meaning "successor", the leaders after Mohammed were considered his successors as leaders of the Islamic community). They don't accept the separation of, let's say mosque and state. The mosque is the state to them.
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Old 07-19-2006, 06:25 PM   #50
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They don't accept the separation of, let's say mosque and state. The mosque is the state to them.
And that is Islam and it is bloody dangerous, religions are viral memes.
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Old 07-19-2006, 06:28 PM   #51
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Islam seems to be the only truly violent and dangerous religion in this world right now.
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Old 07-19-2006, 06:32 PM   #52
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No, there are more than enough examples all around, you believe in the same fundamental untruth.
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Old 07-19-2006, 06:40 PM   #53
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Islam seems to be the only truly violent and dangerous religion in this world right now.
*sigh*

Do you mean Islamists? Islamic militants? Or do you want to stay with your blanket statement above?
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Old 07-19-2006, 06:41 PM   #54
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Militants.
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Old 07-19-2006, 11:22 PM   #55
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"... Furthermore, it is our right to fight them with chemical and biological weapons, so as to afflict them with the fatal maladies that have afflicted the Muslims because of the [Americans’] chemical and biological weapons.”
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I would love to hear your peace game plan to get them to change their religious beliefs.

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