14,000 Iraqis killed so far in 2006 - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

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Old 07-18-2006, 08:00 PM   #16
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One wonders where fault lies, with the people trying to instigate a civil war and slaughter as many "heretical" shiites or those aligned against them.
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Old 07-18-2006, 08:19 PM   #17
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Old 07-18-2006, 08:36 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by verte76


It goes back before Carter, I'm willing to bet. In the '50's the U.S. overthrew a democratically elected government in Iran and re-installed the Shah with his infamous secret police, SAVAK. Iran is mixed up with Iraqi politics. It's even been suggested that Iran is really running the Middle East these days. But I don't think any president has been as damaging to our diplomacy as Bush, none of them.
This is where our story with Iran might begin

this is why Iran believes they need a nuclear deterrent.

Imagine if the Iraqi people had toppled Saddam after 1991
( like many hoped they would)

then imagine that Saddam fled to France

would anyone have been surprised if the Iraqis took French citizens hostage
and demanded the return of Saddam to face justice?
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Old 07-18-2006, 08:39 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
One wonders where fault lies, with the people trying to instigate a civil war and slaughter as many "heretical" shiites or those aligned against them.
so it sounds like you are where the Americans were
during the Iraq / Iran War

let the Muslims slaughter each other

and the Sunnis (Iraq/Saddam) may not be as bad as the evil Shia (Iran, Ayatollah, Hezbollah, Hamas)
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Old 07-18-2006, 08:41 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Westport
Horrible but nothing compared to the stated 10 million Americans that they are targeting.
and you still wont explain this (made up?) statement?
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Old 07-18-2006, 08:43 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep


so it sounds like you are where the Americans were
during the Iraq / Iran War

let the Muslims slaughter each other

and the Sunnis (Iraq) may not be as bad as the evil Shia (Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas)
No, I support an multi-ethnic Iraqi democratic process over civil war and have done consistently, even when I was assured that the constitution would never ever be ratified, that the mainstream Sunni groups would never engage and that Muqtada al Sadr would be running the South of Iraq - your assumption is completely wrong.

And surely you know that Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, a Sunni fundamentalist group.
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Old 07-18-2006, 08:50 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
No, I support an multi-ethnic Iraqi democratic process over civil war - your assumption is completely wrong.

what you support
we all know will never happen


the best hope for Iraq would have been a secular Sunni leader to replace Saddam
and allow some autonomy for the Kurds and Shia but with an Iron fist in a velvet glove


the Shia have the numbers
and democracy is/was the goal

this will end up with the Shia having a large portion of Iraq with Iran ready to support and influence and a large comfortable base for hezboalla to relocate and regroup

what a brilliant plan
the neo-cons have given the Shia


edit to add

ok Hamas = Sunni
the rest is right
and time will prove it out
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Old 07-18-2006, 08:56 PM   #23
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I do not think that Iraq has any interest acting as a state supporter for a terrorist organisation, it would have absolutely nothing to gain and a lot to loose. The presence of an elected government in Baghdad has happened and no matter how many "we all knows" you edict it doesn't change that. The question now becomes do you support that government and an open system, not the abuses perpetrated such as the obscene acts by the ministry of the interior, or do you just support leaving Iraq to a truly unchecked civil war, or as you pointed to installing a benign sunni dictator.

As far as having an Arab state from which to base Hezbollah we have the Iran-Syria axis, an example of one of the Secular Baathist dictatorships openly supporting theocrat terrorists while at the same time being supported by their ideological brethren in Iran, the scenario that we are incessently told was an impossibility in the case of Iraq regardless of how many documents from the Baathist era arose that contradict that line.
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Old 07-18-2006, 09:14 PM   #24
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The American presence in Iraq will dissipate over the next couple of years.

US can claim success and reduce troops
The American people want the troops home and political pressure will make that happen.

Iraq is a large country, Hezbollah can operate under the radar there. There is quite a bit of support from Iraqis for them too.

The best way to end Hezboalla is for Israel to reach a settlement with the Palestinians. There is not that much more that the right wing Israelis can get. They are too greedy. It is much better to let the Palestinians have more of the West Bank.
If Israel honored the true 67 boundaries the U S and Britain could get the Europeans on board with Israel and against the Arab Extremists.

It would probably take a commitment of
a multinational force to maintain the peace for a couple of decades.

If two people were taken hostage troops could go after the abductors and hold them accountable. there would be no need for a huge show of force as a deterrent. The permanent boundaries and statehood would be established.
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Old 07-18-2006, 09:22 PM   #25
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Quote:
Iraq is a large country, Hezbollah can operate under the radar there. There is quite a bit of support from Iraqis for them too.
Can you back this assertion up? I was just reading transcriptions of the BBC Arabic forum and the Iraqi posters seemed to be quite anti-Hezbollah - but at the same time rarely pro-Israel.
Quote:
If Israel honored the true 67 boundaries the U S and Britain could get the Europeans on board with Israel and against the Arab Extremists.
Pre-1967 borders are unfeesible especially considering that the land was taken in defence against an attack by multiple Arab states, given the elected Hamas governments policy of driving the Jews into the sea I don't see anything wrong with implimenting the policy of disengagement, furthur withrawls must be conditional on risk - given what Gaza has decended into since the withdrawl should give pause before handing over all of the West Bank.
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Old 07-18-2006, 09:27 PM   #26
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OMG we MADE them hate us!!
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Old 07-18-2006, 09:29 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep

and you still wont explain this (made up?) statement?

Hardly. Just have my own life to attend to...wife, four kids, company.


----

From “A Treatise on the Legal Status of Using Weapons of Mass Destruction Against Infidels” ( a religious fatwa that Osama bin Laden secured from Shaykh Nasir bin Hamd al-Fahd a young and prominent Saudi cleric justifying the use of weapons of mass destruction (WMD) against Americans:

Anyone who considers America’s aggressions against Muslims and their lands during the past decades will conclude that striking her is permissible on the basis of the rule of treating one as one has been treated. No other argument need be mentioned. Some brothers have totaled the number of Muslims killed directly or indirectly by their weapons and come up with a figure of nearly ten million....If a bomb that killed ten million of them and burned as much of their land as they have burned Muslim land was dropped on them, it would be permissible, with no need to mention any other argument. We might need other arguments if we wanted to annihilate more than this number of them.


From Ayman Al-Zawahir: “We have not reached parity with them. We have the right to kill four million Americans—two million of them children—and to exile twice as many and wound and cripple hundreds of thousands. Furthermore, it is our right to fight them with chemical and biological weapons, so as to afflict them with the fatal maladies that have afflicted the Muslims because of the [Americans’] chemical and biological weapons.”

In the 9/11 Commission Report, the commissioners concluded: “Bin Laden and Islamist terrorists mean exactly what they say: To them America is the font of all evil, the “head of the snake, and it must be converted or destroyed.”
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Old 07-18-2006, 09:32 PM   #28
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I though NY has 8 million people.
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Old 07-18-2006, 09:44 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by shart1780
I though NY has 8 million people.



You're right...around 8 million.

The New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island region, has 18.6 million people.
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Old 07-18-2006, 10:42 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem


The figure should cause an automatic response of revulsion. So many losses. Instead, the response is to measure it against potential American lives. Hence the 'what the fuck'.
How was the figure compiled though? Was it just totaling up reports from the media and various morgues, or did the UN send investigative forensic teams to verify the name, body, and cause of death for each person in the report? There are accurate statistics on the deaths of coalition forces because such a verification process is done. Without going through such a process at a minimum, such figures could be over or under estimates of the true number of deaths. One example of a gross overestimation happened in Jenin in 2002, when most reports said that the IDF had murdered 9,000 civilians in the city. Here the UN did send in an investigative team of forensics and found that only 48 civilians had been killed, and all had died as a result of accidents. Thats not to say that the above figure is that far off as was the case in Jenin, but one can see how inaccurate media reports and reports from people on the ground can be sometimes when potentially dealing with large numbers of people.
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