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Old 11-04-2004, 04:47 PM   #61
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
But if your government is wrong?
A far more difficult question, as you could simply negate all of Jesus' command by labeling the various government actions as "wrong".

The one Biblical example I can give relates to the individual's relationship with God. If the government says I cannot worship God, or should worship something else, then I disobey my government (think Daniel Chapter 6).
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Old 11-04-2004, 06:21 PM   #62
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Really, this issue has been dissected, debated over, analysed, hung, drawn and quartered and really exhausted. I'm exhausted talking about it, and what is probably very true if you're homosexual (in which case, God help you) is that, chances are, you must be well and truly exhausted about it.

I'm going to keep my opinions short and very brief, because it is very late and I am very tired and I am sick and tired of the same old arguments again and again (not necessarily being put forward here in FYM, I am talking in a very general context now);

1) I choose to believe that, in a secular society, religion should not influence politics.

2) If religion does not have a direct influence the way we deal with politics, then there should be no politic that influences the way we go about deciding the laws that govern society.

3) I choose to believe that a person can have morality without religion, and that the reverse is also true.

4) My conclusion is; bringing up God and the Bible (which I think makes it clear, in several instances, what it thinks of homosexuals) really has, or should have, no relevance whatsoever to the laws that govern any country. Essentially; I really can't vouch for the argument that brings God into it.

Its hard to debate or even achieve a common ground on anything, when you bring God into it. For far too long, and I am not accusing FYMers specifically, people have used God as a justification for so many things, and I for one am saddened to see that He is now being used to justify further discrimination. And lets face it, not allowing someone to marry because of their sexual preference is pretty discriminatory.

I still would like to see a nation, starting with my own, that can truly say it has no prejeduices and doesn't condemn people to second-rate existences because of who they choose to marry, not to mention the other ludicrous reasons we as a society have accepted as the norm.

This continues to be my wish.

Ant.
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:08 AM   #63
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[i]And lets face it, not allowing someone to marry because of their sexual preference is pretty discriminatory.
Ant. [/B]
I agree completely with this. I believe that if you are a homosexual, you were in all likelihood born that way. I mean, when I was five years old, I didn't have to wonder about what I wanted - I was chasing the cute boys around the playground. I am straight and that's just me. And I think if you are gay, you're just gay! You can't help who you are attracted to. And to say that is wrong and that two people of the same sex can't marry... I just don't agree with that. I agree, it is pure discrimination.
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:35 AM   #64
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I think we should all be gay and all get married to one another...

haha, I'm kidding.

No, really, I am kidding. Seriously.

I hate how when people talk about gay marriage and say, "Look what it's gonna do to the sanctity of marriage, what's next?" Then they take it straight to the: "What's next, marrying your dog?"
Now THOSE people I worry about!

Gays I have nothing against. I'm all for their happiness, and America should be the first place to allow it, and allow love into our country.
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:55 AM   #65
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I have no problem with Gay marriage as a moral issue, the institution of marriage is already very far gone and I do not think that attempting to let people who want to get married do so will damage it at all.

I would only be wary of gay marriage if it gave taxpayer funded benefits designed to assist families with children, those considerations are far more of an issue worthy of debate than the morality of people above the age of consent living their lives in a manner which does not harm anybody.
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Old 11-05-2004, 10:35 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedracer


Well, we've already prevented incestuous couples from marrying, even if they're menopausal or gay (precluding the possibility of giving birth to defomed kids).

So tell me again why it's so horrible that gays can get married in Massachusetts but not Ohio?
How can you compare a father having sex with a child (incestuous) and two adult people who love each other?
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Old 11-05-2004, 10:49 AM   #67
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Marriage = 1 man + 1 woman

That is the way it's going to be, I don't care how many lawsuits are filed or how many parades are staged or how many .Org websites are set up, the concept of marriage is simple to grasp, 1 man + 1 woman.

Christians/Catholics are through with sitting at the back of the bus watching Hollywood and the Left hijacking family-values, our commencement of reclaiming America and making America what it once was took place on Tuesday.

If for some reason a person doesn't like what is happening to this Christian nation which is being reborn, if they don't like the fact that marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman, they are allowed to go and start their own country somewhere else. There are planes leaving America every hour on the hour, good luck in your new anything goes utopia.

Christians are done sitting at the back of the bus.
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Old 11-05-2004, 10:51 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by mellyinsf

How can you compare a father having sex with a child (incestuous) and two adult people who love each other?
He wasn't.

Step back and take a look at the broader principles involved.
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Old 11-05-2004, 11:00 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by GOP_Catholic
Marriage = 1 man + 1 woman

That is the way it's going to be, I don't care how many lawsuits are filed or how many parades are staged or how many .Org websites are set up, the concept of marriage is simple to grasp, 1 man + 1 woman.

Christians/Catholics are through with sitting at the back of the bus watching Hollywood and the Left hijacking family-values, our commencement of reclaiming America and making America what it once was took place on Tuesday.

If for some reason a person doesn't like what is happening to this Christian nation which is being reborn, if they don't like the fact that marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman, they are allowed to go and start their own country somewhere else. There are planes leaving America every hour on the hour, good luck in your new anything goes utopia.

Christians are done sitting at the back of the bus.


Are you for real? This is quite amusing.

Yes, us christians are sick and tired of sitting at the back of the bus (sarcasm) George Bush is "our" Rosa Parks (more sarcasm)

Thanks for the laugh!!
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Old 11-05-2004, 11:03 AM   #70
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Yes, that was quite a disturbing post. Equal rights is also a simple concept to grasp. You can be a homosexual and still have "family values."
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Old 11-05-2004, 11:04 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by GOP_Catholic
Marriage = 1 man + 1 woman

That is the way it's going to be, I don't care how many lawsuits are filed or how many parades are staged or how many .Org websites are set up, the concept of marriage is simple to grasp, 1 man + 1 woman.

Christians/Catholics are through with sitting at the back of the bus watching Hollywood and the Left hijacking family-values, our commencement of reclaiming America and making America what it once was took place on Tuesday.

If for some reason a person doesn't like what is happening to this Christian nation which is being reborn, if they don't like the fact that marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman, they are allowed to go and start their own country somewhere else. There are planes leaving America every hour on the hour, good luck in your new anything goes utopia.

Christians are done sitting at the back of the bus.
Let's drop the "back of the bus" talk.

Sure, there is plenty of snide comments made about conservative Christians. Whining about it won't help.
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Old 11-05-2004, 11:08 AM   #72
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Originally posted by tackleberry

Are you for real? This is quite amusing.
You saw on Tuesday, we are for real. There are 60 million people just like me over the age of 18 in this nation. When you count our children, the number swells up to around 80 million, and when you count the number of us that didn't make it to vote, that number now exceeds a total of 100 million.

Kerry was right, there will be a draft, the Christian Army was drafted, and we reported for duty on Tuesday. Our weapons of choice are the Bible and morals, we number in the tens of millions, we're spread all over this country, we have our own schools, our own charities, and we have another piece of important property - the White House.
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Old 11-05-2004, 11:12 AM   #73
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Originally posted by GOP_Catholic
Kerry was right, there will be a draft, the Christian Army was drafted, and we reported for duty on Tuesday. Our weapons of choice are the Bible and morals, we number in the tens of millions, we're spread all over this country, we have our own schools, our own charities, and we have another piece of important property - the White House.
This is nonsense. There is no unified Christian front in the US. Just look at how many churches there are.

Your analogy is poor and offensive.
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Old 11-05-2004, 11:20 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally posted by GOP_Catholic


You saw on Tuesday, we are for real. There are 60 million people just like me over the age of 18 in this nation. When you count our children, the number swells up to around 80 million, and when you count the number of us that didn't make it to vote, that number now exceeds a total of 100 million.

Kerry was right, there will be a draft, the Christian Army was drafted, and we reported for duty on Tuesday. Our weapons of choice are the Bible and morals, we number in the tens of millions, we're spread all over this country, we have our own schools, our own charities, and we have another piece of important property - the White House.
Well, it's good to know that 100 million people will be suited up for a Holy War. The Christians vs....who? The evil Homosexuals, the Pagans, and the Heathens? I'll be sure to grab some popcorn for this show.

My insticts tell me that God and Jesus are pissing themselves out of glorious over-joyed laughter at your posts. I will join them.
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Old 11-05-2004, 11:25 AM   #75
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I agree that Christians are a strong and up and coming force and it's MEANT to be that way. It would be a nice day if all Christians could unite, like LDS people have always believed they should.

Do these Christians, in your eyes, include JW's and LDS people? Because I know in the past that this just wasn't the case, even though it was totally incorrect.

If I can expect THAT kind of new day, then great. Maybe no more picketing our conference center during General Conferences, anymore, heh, and burning things that are holy to us. K?
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