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Old 11-04-2004, 03:36 PM   #46
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Originally posted by mellyinsf

Untill then let's just all make it illegal for two people who love each other to participate in what to others is a right.
It was already illegal in Utah. They are just going to make the language clearer.

If they want to change that, well, they've got a lot of work to do.
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Old 11-04-2004, 03:38 PM   #47
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Yes, but here in the U.S., you must also base your vote on what's right for all Americans, not just the Christian Americans.
When was this requirement established? Stop and take a look at your suggestion. The freedom to vote is just that - the freedom to vote. If someone wants to vote for only women - that is there right. The minute you begin to infringe on this, you have a whole new problem.

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Jesus said in the Bible we must love thy neighbor. Jesus never said "Gays are going to hell." And really, what harm does it do to you personally if some guy down the street marrys another guy? It's not going to turn you gay.
Jesus said only those who reject Him will go to Hell. How people may accept or reject Jesus is between the individual and the Lord.

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Back in the 1960's there was a case before the Supreme Court called Love vs. Virginia. A law in Virginia stated that you couldn't marry someone of a different race. They based the law on the fact that the Bible, according to them, supported the separation of the races not only in marriage but also in everyday law. This is how the South supported the Jim Crow laws. The Supreme Court struck down the marriage ban, saying it was unconstitutional and that Love, a black man, had the right to marry regardless of race, in this case his white wife. Here we are fifty years later. Few people would say interracial marriage is wrong, no one would put a ban to interracial marriage on a state-wide ballot.

Now replace "black" and "white" in the Love case with "gay" and "gay". What's the fundamental difference between the two cases?
The fundamental different as of today is that race is beyond ones control. There is a difference of opinion regarding sexual preference. Also, the underlying law used in the decision plays an important part in your analogy.
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Old 11-04-2004, 03:49 PM   #48
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Jesus said only those who reject Him will go to Hell. How people may accept or reject Jesus is between the individual and the Lord.
If its between the individual and the Lord, what say do you have in whether it is sinful for them to marry? You don't get to judge. Only God can do that.

As for the law itself, Jesus said "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, give to God what is God's." The Guy was preaching the separation of church and state long before our country was established.

The fundamental different as of today is that race is beyond ones control. There is a difference of opinion regarding sexual preference. Also, the underlying law used in the decision plays an important part in your analogy. [/QUOTE]

So Dick Cheney's daughter choose to be gay to rebel against her father's Republican upbringing? Why would anyone choose to live a lifestyle that would cause them to be persecuted or cause them to be beaten and left to die on the side of a road?

We'll just have to accept we're playing different cards. You're hoping God didn't make them that way so you're not persecuting a creation of God. I'm hoping God wants me to not judge lest ye be judged.
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Old 11-04-2004, 03:50 PM   #49
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Originally posted by U2Traveller


It was already illegal in Utah. They are just going to make the language clearer.

If they want to change that, well, they've got a lot of work to do.
so what exactly are we waiting to work out?
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Old 11-04-2004, 03:54 PM   #50
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If its between the individual and the Lord, what say do you have in whether it is sinful for them to marry? You don't get to judge. Only God can do that.
I am not the judge, but believers are called to keep account of each other. It is perfectly alright to show another where their actions contradict Scripture.

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As for the law itself, Jesus said "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, give to God what is God's." The Guy was preaching the separation of church and state long before our country was established.
Take that verse in context and you will see Jesus is calling His followers to submit to their government - not a call for separation.

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We'll just have to accept we're playing different cards. You're hoping God didn't make them that way so you're not persecuting a creation of God. I'm hoping God wants me to not judge lest ye be judged.
I am glad you raised this important point. We are all created in the image of God. We are His image bearers. We have no right to hate what He has created.

Theologically speaking, we cannot turn and say "I am free from what God commands". We cannot, in essense, blame God for what we do.
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Old 11-04-2004, 04:07 PM   #51
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Originally posted by nbcrusader

Theologically speaking, we cannot turn and say "I am free from what God commands". We cannot, in essense, blame God for what we do.
I do not think of myself as a piece of foam floating in the ocean. Wherever the next wave may take me. I take accountability for my actions and so should everyone else. In this sense I find this religion disturbing. If your god says no good to homosexuality, why are their so many who participate? Why would God punish thier lives like this?
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Old 11-04-2004, 04:09 PM   #52
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Originally posted by mellyinsf

so what exactly are we waiting to work out?
What's right and wrong, I guess.
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Old 11-04-2004, 04:11 PM   #53
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Originally posted by U2Traveller


What's right and wrong, I guess.
OK That is the first thing I have ever agreed with you about. Time will tell, I really believe this.
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Old 11-04-2004, 04:11 PM   #54
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P.S. Whoever said this...people in America are required to vote for what's best for everyone in America...is wrong. I think that would be quite impossible, actually. That's why you have to vote for yourself and the majority wins.
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Old 11-04-2004, 04:12 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Take that verse in context and you will see Jesus is calling His followers to submit to their government - not a call for separation.


Here is another question I'll ask, but I know it too will probably go unanswered like my others in here but here it goes.

If Jesus is calling you to submit to your government is that only governments of Judeo-Christian countries or all over? What if my country ask me to opress other humans, lock away the innocent, deny his children rights?
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Old 11-04-2004, 04:16 PM   #56
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Here is another question I'll ask, but I know it too will probably go unanswered like my others in here but here it goes.

If Jesus is calling you to submit to your government is that only governments of Judeo-Christian countries or all over? What if my country ask me to opress other humans, lock away the innocent, deny his children rights?
I think you will find your answer in the passage. Jesus was not refering to a Judeo-Christian government (Rome).

No where do I see this command as calling us to sin against God.
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Old 11-04-2004, 04:18 PM   #57
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Originally posted by mellyinsf


I do not think of myself as a piece of foam floating in the ocean. Wherever the next wave may take me. I take accountability for my actions and so should everyone else. In this sense I find this religion disturbing. If your god says no good to homosexuality, why are their so many who participate? Why would God punish thier lives like this?
God punishes all sin. We are all sinners. We all deserve punishment. It is wrong to grade or rank sin.


Thankfully, Jesus paid the price for our sin. Grace is free. Accept God's gift.
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Old 11-04-2004, 04:21 PM   #58
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Sin is sin, for sure, but some sins are worse than others...and some are even unforgivable. And you are saved by grace only after all you can do.
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Old 11-04-2004, 04:22 PM   #59
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The only unforgivable sin is the rejection of God. Everything else is the same. You are on dangerous turf when you start to rank sins.
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Old 11-04-2004, 04:32 PM   #60
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The only unforgivable sin is the rejection of God. Everything else is the same. You are on dangerous turf when you start to rank sins.
Exactly

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I think you will find your answer in the passage. Jesus was not refering to a Judeo-Christian government (Rome).
But if your government is wrong?
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