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Old 11-19-2004, 09:56 AM   #331
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


I think we are fooling ourselves if we believe that societal influences play no part in science or in what science will say or is allowed to say.
You're right in general. I didn't agree with this particular example, I don't think homosexuality belongs in DSM-IV. But there's no question that social trends influence science in general. My own father is a retired scientist and his field, cardiology, has changed drastically. There's not as much heart disease from cholesterol and smoking because these are down. Unfortunately, the heart disease numbers in general haven't changed because obesity is now causing much more heart disease than it used to. Sometimes science reflects social trends in a pretty graphic way and sometimes it's more vague and indirect.
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Old 11-19-2004, 11:12 AM   #332
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I feel as if human beings have disowned God and have turned to science as an alternative. Science preaches no moral principles, nor does it have any boundaries. To me, that's scary. Society controls science in a sense that "anything goes", when science should really be helping the people who need it. The responsiblility lacking, promiscuous crowd controls the direction that science has taken, and it's all politics, and an excuse to avoid moral standards.

We have this assumption that Science is always right, regardless of what scripture tells us.
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Old 11-19-2004, 11:30 AM   #333
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
For any of you who were offended by my stance on society, I apologize, but I think we owe the gay community the love that Jesus would give them, but love without truth isn't really love at all.
Gay Christians believe they already have Jesus's love. What we owe the gay community is not Jesus's love, but the same respect and civil liberties the rest of us enjoy. Truth without love isn't truth at all and I fail to see the love in denying gays the rights everyone else has.
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Old 11-19-2004, 11:46 AM   #334
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I feel as if human beings have disowned God and have turned to science as an alternative. Science preaches no moral principles, nor does it have any boundaries. To me, that's scary. Society controls science in a sense that "anything goes", when science should really be helping the people who need it. The responsiblility lacking, promiscuous crowd controls the direction that science has taken, and it's all politics, and an excuse to avoid moral standards.

We have this assumption that Science is always right, regardless of what scripture tells us.
Actually I agree with you. People have elevated science onto a pedestal where it really doesn't belong. They don't believe anything that can't be proved in an experiment. I do not share this view, needless to say. I've heard people say "religion is all superstition, it's not based on concrete proof". Science shouldn't be used as a substitute for religion. I hesitate to comment on the morality of someone just because they don't think like I do. But there's a real problem when someone doesn't think anything is wrong. That's not cool. I look at the stuff I was taught in my catechism as my moral guide. You've got to have some morality and believe some things are wrong and some things are right.
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Old 11-19-2004, 11:47 AM   #335
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Originally posted by joyfulgirl


Gay Christians believe they already have Jesus's love. What we owe the gay community is not Jesus's love, but the same respect and civil liberties the rest of us enjoy. Truth without love isn't truth at all and I fail to see the love in denying gays the rights everyone else has.
As far as gay Christians, I'm not the judge on that issue - God is. However, as a Christian, I believe we should share our unconditional love, but it means nothing to God unless we also share the truth. We may never have proof or a universal definition of what homosexuality is without the word of God, but to be fair, I'm a sinner too. If it's a sin to deny gay marriage, that's something I will learn from God.
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Old 11-19-2004, 01:29 PM   #336
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I feel as if human beings have disowned God and have turned to science as an alternative. Science preaches no moral principles, nor does it have any boundaries. To me, that's scary. Society controls science in a sense that "anything goes", when science should really be helping the people who need it. The responsiblility lacking, promiscuous crowd controls the direction that science has taken, and it's all politics, and an excuse to avoid moral standards.

We have this assumption that Science is always right, regardless of what scripture tells us.
Why is it God and science can't co-exist? I think many choose to ignore science because they take bits and pieces of the Bible too literal, and many choose to ignore the existence of God because they can't believe in anything that not proven in a lab. But I believe they co-exist.

The promiscuous crowd controls science...that was funny.

Scripture is interpreted just as much by politics, just like that of science.

I'm sorry but as humans we will NEVER know 100% of the truth, you even said so yourself.
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Old 11-19-2004, 02:06 PM   #337
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You're right, society also influences what the churches teach. At one point they claimed that slavery was scriptural. The scientists took themselves out of the morality department because that was for the churches to decide on. You don't have to choose between science and religion if you ask me. You can respect the scientists for what they do, and the church for what it teaches.
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Old 11-19-2004, 02:41 PM   #338
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
However, as a Christian, I believe we should share our unconditional love, but it means nothing to God unless we also share the Truth.
Even when it is unpopular or deemed offensive.

Unfortunately, due to fault of the speaker, the hearer, or both, this does not come across as loving.
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Old 11-19-2004, 03:02 PM   #339
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I feel as if human beings have disowned God and have turned to science as an alternative. Science preaches no moral principles, nor does it have any boundaries. To me, that's scary. Society controls science in a sense that "anything goes", when science should really be helping the people who need it. The responsiblility lacking, promiscuous crowd controls the direction that science has taken, and it's all politics, and an excuse to avoid moral standards.

We have this assumption that Science is always right, regardless of what scripture tells us.
I'm a scientist and I honestly have no clue at all what you're talking about here.
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Old 11-19-2004, 08:43 PM   #340
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I don't believe in science playing God.
And I don't believe in god.

I also don't believe in science as the be all and end all either.

So where does that leave me?


Eh. Whatever. I agree with joyfulgirl's comment: it's just very very difficult to have this discussion when it keeps coming back to the Bible.

So that's it for me. Have fun guys.
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Old 11-19-2004, 09:58 PM   #341
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Originally posted by anitram


I'm a scientist and I honestly have no clue at all what you're talking about here.
Here's an example - and most of you are going to HATE ME for it, but here's what mad science has done to our moral standards:

It has caused America's Abortion Holocaust, killing over 35 million babies in this country alone, due to a parental lack of responsibility and the worship of Science. It has literally turned the women's womb into a concentration camp. This my friends is where I draw the line on science.
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Old 11-19-2004, 10:44 PM   #342
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Here's an example - and most of you are going to HATE ME for it, but here's what mad science has done to our moral standards:

It has caused America's Abortion Holocaust, killing over 35 million babies in this country alone, due to a parental lack of responsibility and the worship of Science. It has literally turned the women's womb into a concentration camp. This my friends is where I draw the line on science.
Science has nothing to do with this. Their were abortions being performed before doctors were performing them. And to compare abortion to the holocaust is just discusting. Will you please stop.

And no this is not hate, for I hate no one. But not knowing what you are talking about is a very dangerous weapon.
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Old 11-19-2004, 10:48 PM   #343
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Science has nothing to do with this. Their were abortions being performed before doctors were performing them. And to compare abortion to the holocaust is just discusting. Will you please stop.

And no this is not hate, for I hate no one. But not knowing what you are talking about is a very dangerous weapon.
Abortion is disgusting.
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Old 11-19-2004, 11:00 PM   #344
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Abortion is disgusting.
Ok that's your opinion but it doesn't dispell science.

I don't think anyone here is going to say abortion is beautiful or even good. But some belive it has to be a choice given to women in order to save lives and maintain. But abortion is not the issue. You are trying to make some crazy point where science is trying to debunk God. That's simply not true. Some use science to justify God doesn't exist, but other use science in coexistence.

It sounds like you are trying to dismiss it totally. If the Bible says dinosaurs don't exist then those bones are fake. That's what it sounds like to me.
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Old 11-19-2004, 11:22 PM   #345
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Um, maybe I'm too U2-ish, but isn't Miracle Drug all about how faith, love, and hope can easily blend in science. All you bible scholars, reread what edge sings in that song and it's impact.
"Why is it God and science can't co-exist?"BonoVoxSupastar
asked. Thank ya...couldn't have articulated the point better
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