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Old 03-08-2006, 11:05 AM   #1
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102 Irish Priests accused of

Abuse. It sure keeps getting worse for the church dont it. There needs to be a major change in the church. Priests should be allowed to marry, and hopefully these abuses will go down.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...800684_pf.html
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Old 03-08-2006, 11:46 AM   #2
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Re: 102 Irish Priests accused of

Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
Priests should be allowed to marry, and hopefully these abuses will go down.
How do you figure?

I agree that everyone should be allowed to marry and that abuses should go down, but I don't get the relationship. Are you saying ANY unmarried man is more likely to abuse someone simply because he's not married or doesn't have a sexual partner?
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Old 03-08-2006, 11:51 AM   #3
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No, but the Church should show the world it can change and start letting priests marry.
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Old 03-08-2006, 11:53 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
No, but the Church should show the world it can change and start letting priests marry.
But why did you correlate the abuses to the fact that priests aren't married? I guess I don't get why you posted that article if the debate is whether or not priests should marry.
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Old 03-08-2006, 11:59 AM   #5
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Do you think sexual abuse would go down if priests were allowed to marry?
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Old 03-08-2006, 12:15 PM   #6
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Someone with the compulsion to molest children will still have that compulsion, married or not.
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Old 03-08-2006, 12:29 PM   #7
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I believe there is some correlation to priests not being allowed to marry and the abuse goes on.

A priest is a human being with sexual needs that are difficult to completely supress. If a priest had sexual contact with an adult, then it would be much more likely to become known and shame the priest. Priests could target children because they figure that children are less likely to talk about what happened, allowing them to get away with it.

Obviously, this doesn't justify any of it, but to say that there is no correlation at all is a reach.
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Old 03-08-2006, 01:19 PM   #8
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I think clerical celibacy should be optional, not compulsory. There is a reason why so many priests have been caught doing this stuff. As a Catholic myself, it's a terrible embarrassment. Something needs to be done.
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Old 03-08-2006, 02:21 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by randhail
I believe there is some correlation to priests not being allowed to marry and the abuse goes on.

A priest is a human being with sexual needs that are difficult to completely supress. If a priest had sexual contact with an adult, then it would be much more likely to become known and shame the priest. Priests could target children because they figure that children are less likely to talk about what happened, allowing them to get away with it.

Obviously, this doesn't justify any of it, but to say that there is no correlation at all is a reach.
I see what you're saying, but you're excluding so many other variables. I don't think the restrictions on marriage and sex have any significant impact. Why do men enter the priesthood and why to men abuse children? What kinds of personality traits are common in either group?

If a correlation is what you're really after, it probably makes more sense to argue that the type of man most likely to enter the priesthood is the same type of man most likely to engage in abusing children.
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Old 03-08-2006, 07:21 PM   #10
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I don't believe for a second that men join the priesthood and then all of a sudden become pedophiles.

Is it possible that pedophiles enter the priesthood because they believe having to take a celibacy vow before God will help them not act on their urges? (Not that it seems to be working). Or because they want easy access to children and know a lot of parents won't suspect anything or not believe it if the children talk because of the huge amount of trust placed in priests?
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Old 03-08-2006, 07:55 PM   #11
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^ I don't really know much about the psychology of pedophilia, but the second possibility sounds more strategic and calculated than I think most pedophiles usually are. The first possibility is interesting. Does anyone know whether pedophiles in general are more likely to be single, and if so, whether there are any theories as to why this is?

So far as I know, there is no research suggesting that suppression of normal sexual urges (i.e. those directed at other adults, whether heterosexual or homsosexual in nature) results in sexual attraction to children, which is what pedophilia is.
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Old 03-08-2006, 08:09 PM   #12
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Re: Re: 102 Irish Priests accused of

Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic


How do you figure?

I agree that everyone should be allowed to marry and that abuses should go down, but I don't get the relationship. Are you saying ANY unmarried man is more likely to abuse someone simply because he's not married or doesn't have a sexual partner?

I think he is right

there is a lot less abuse in married clergy


it is not about married or unmarried
repressing sexuality goes against how God made people
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Old 03-08-2006, 08:11 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
Do you think sexual abuse would go down if priests were allowed to marry?
yes

in the catholic church
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Old 03-08-2006, 08:15 PM   #14
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A few bits from Wikipedia:
Quote:
Some individuals, such as Dr. Fred S. Berlin, assert sexual attraction to children to be a sexual orientation in itself. This is at odds with the current popular acceptance of the term sexual orientation as meaning attraction to the opposite sex, the same sex, or both.
.....
The APA's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 4th edition, Text Revision gives the following as its "Diagnostic criteria for 302.2 Pedophilia":

--Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 years or younger).
--The person has acted on these urges, or the sexual urges or fantasies cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty.
--The person is at least age 16 years and at least 5 years older than the child or children in Criterion A.
--Note: Do not include an individual in late adolescence involved in an ongoing sexual relationship with a 12 or 13-year-old.
....
Some studies have concluded that at least a quarter of all adult men may have some feelings of sexual arousal in connection with children. A study by Hall et al. of Kent State University, for example, found that 32.5% of their sample — consisting of eighty adult males — exhibited sexual arousal to pedophilic stimuli that equaled or exceeded their arousal to the adult stimuli. Further studies indicate that even men erotically fixated on adult females are generally prone to react sexually when exposed to nude female children.

In 1989 Briere and Runtz conducted a study on 193 male undergraduate students concerning pedophilia. Of the sample, 21% acknowledged sexual attraction to some small children; 9% reported sexual fantasies involving children; 5% admitted masturbating to these fantasies; and 7% conceded some probability of actually having sex with a child if they could avoid detection and punishment.
.....
A perpetrator of child sexual abuse is commonly assumed to be a pedophile, and referred to as such; however, there may be other motivations for the crime, much as adult rape can sometimes have non-sexual reasons. Thus, child sexual abuse alone may or may not be an indicator that its perpetrator is a pedophile; most perpetrators of it are in fact not primarily interested in children -- as has been recognized by law enforcement.

Those who have committed sexual crimes against children, but do not meet the normal diagnosis criteria for pedophilia, are referred to as situational or regressed offenders, whereas offenders primarily attracted toward children are called structured pedophiles or fixated pedophiles, as their orientation is fixed by the structure of their personality. It is estimated that only 2 to 10 percent of child sexual abuse perpetrators meet the regular criteria for pedophilia.

Most cases of father-daughter incest are believed to involve fathers who are situational offenders, rather than pedophiles.
If pedophilia truly is a full-fledged, biological and irreversible sexual orientation, then I feel very very sorry for people who are cursed with it.
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Old 03-08-2006, 08:20 PM   #15
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I think that for men so inclined to pedophilia the priesthood makes it easy. They have access and they have power. In many parishes the priest's word is virtually law and no one would dare criticise one. What seems to have made it worse in the Catholic case/cases, is that the abuse was known about and tolerated, even facilitated in some cases, by the people in charge. So even if people did report it (within the church, and of course most good Catholics, especially years ago, wouldn't even consider taking allegations outside the Church), the offending priest was just moved somewhere else, if even that.

But it happens in other denominations. Plenty of pastors do it as well. I remember in the Cincinnati area there was a whole spate of youth pastors getting caught abusing kids.

And of course it also happens in completely non religious areas too.
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