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Old 07-07-2003, 05:17 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
Is it only my last paragraph, your actual quote, that you didnīt agree with, I can live with that
If it makes you happy to believe this, that is fine with me
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Old 07-07-2003, 05:51 PM   #32
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[Q]"Twice in the 20th century, the United States saved the world: first from the Nazi threat, then from Soviet totalitarianism (...)After destroying Germany (...)"

Wrong. There were 4 allies and the U.S.S.R. lost 20 millions of soldiers. The Soviet Union was politically and economically collapsing, without anyone being saved.

[/Q]

Your point on the history end of things is correct in my opinion. However, that does not negate the entire idea presented by the author!

[Q]America has the kindest, gentlest foreign policy of any great power in world history.: Critics of the U.S. are likely to react to this truth with sputtering outrage. They will point to longstanding American support for a Latin or Middle Eastern despot, or the unjust internment of the Japanese during World War II, or America's reluctance to impose sanctions on South Africa's apartheid regime. However one feels about these particular cases, let us concede to the critics the point that America is not always in the right. [/Q]

It seems to me that the author is very balanced in his world view. The US is NOT perfect and he acknowledges mistakes of the past.

[Q]What the critics leave out is the other side of the ledger. Twice in the 20th century, the United States saved the world: first from the Nazi threat, then from Soviet totalitarianism. What would have been the world's fate if America had not existed? After destroying Germany and Japan in World War II, the U.S. proceeded to rebuild both countries, and today they are American allies.[/Q]

While I agree with you on the principle that the US needs to give some more credit to the USSR in the area of WWII, the second part of the statement clearly demonstrates that even though we were enemies with Germany and Japan, we did a lot to rebuild them. The emphasis was not so much on the US won the war alone, but on the fact that the US, as STING has pointed out in the past, did a lot to help rebuild the countries they were fighting and then leave them.

[Q] Now we are doing the same thing in Afghanistan and Iraq. Consider, too, how magnanimous the U.S. has been to the former Soviet Union after its victory in the Cold War. For the most part America is an abstaining superpower: It shows no real interest in conquering and subjugating the rest of the world. (Imagine how the Soviets would have acted if they had won the Cold War.) On occasion the America intervenes to overthrow a tyrannical regime or to halt massive human rights abuses in another country, but it never stays to rule that country. In Grenada, Haiti, and Bosnia, the U.S. got in and then it got out. Moreover, when America does get into a war, as in Iraq, its troops are supremely careful to avoid targeting civilians and to minimize collateral damage. Even as America bombed the Taliban infrastructure and hideouts, U.S. planes dropped rations of food to avert hardship and starvation of Afghan civilians. What other country does these things?[/Q]


I think this part is equally true. So while I agree with you on your point, I think the author makes a VERY good case for the main idea this statement "America has the kindest, gentlest foreign policy of any great power in world history."
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Old 07-07-2003, 05:51 PM   #33
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Yes it does and thatīs fine with me too

edited to say I was referring to your post before of the last one, so yes it makes me happy and now good night (curtain)
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Old 07-07-2003, 05:56 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
Yes it does and thatīs fine with me too

edited to say I was referring to your post before of the last one, so yes it makes me happy and now good night (curtain)


Peace
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Old 07-07-2003, 05:57 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
"The poorest Americans have TV sets, microwave ovens, and cars."

Wrong. When I was in America last time, I saw people living on the streets, sleeping under bridges. They neither have the power plug for a microwave oven, let alone a T.V.
I did not read your whole post...so I am just going to get into this statement (I feel honesty is always the best practice).

Outside of the homeless you may have seen on the streets, this statement can be seen as fairly truthful.

I did some mission work in Mississippi and Alabama in college. We went to a really rural Alabama town - roughly about an hour away from any potential jobs. We were "winterizing" this one trailer home...and despite having no job, they had a TV with "The Price is Right" on in the background.

As we moved the cooler to get at a window, cockroaches and other assorted pests ran for their lives.

"Johnny, who is are next contestant?"

We winterized the windows, and decided to spend some time with the two toddlers of the house. One was lucky to have a dirty cloth diaper, the other only had a t-shirt.

"...And sarah, what is your bid on the bedroom set?"
"one dollar, bob."

The children were eating what was left of chicken breast, more or less nibbling at the bone marrow. The chicken was provided to this community by a butcher who took his "day old" meats, and donated it to these two nuns who helped the community.

"It's time for the shocase showdown..........."

God Bless America
Third World Country
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Old 07-07-2003, 10:24 PM   #36
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Originally posted by zonelistener


I did not read your whole post...so I am just going to get into this statement (I feel honesty is always the best practice).

Outside of the homeless you may have seen on the streets, this statement can be seen as fairly truthful.

I did some mission work in Mississippi and Alabama in college. We went to a really rural Alabama town - roughly about an hour away from any potential jobs. We were "winterizing" this one trailer home...and despite having no job, they had a TV with "The Price is Right" on in the background.

As we moved the cooler to get at a window, cockroaches and other assorted pests ran for their lives.

"Johnny, who is are next contestant?"

We winterized the windows, and decided to spend some time with the two toddlers of the house. One was lucky to have a dirty cloth diaper, the other only had a t-shirt.

"...And sarah, what is your bid on the bedroom set?"
"one dollar, bob."

The children were eating what was left of chicken breast, more or less nibbling at the bone marrow. The chicken was provided to this community by a butcher who took his "day old" meats, and donated it to these two nuns who helped the community.

"It's time for the shocase showdown..........."

God Bless America
Third World Country
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Old 07-07-2003, 11:07 PM   #37
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I have heard of those two nuns down in South Alabama; they also facilitate health care services for many of the poor residents in, I think, Lowndes County.

~U2Alabama
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Old 07-07-2003, 11:10 PM   #38
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Re: Re: 10 Things for the USA to be Proud Of

Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
Or the social equality that makes sure a kid in Birmingham has the same education as one in Beverly Hills?
This is a fair comparison, but trust me that we ARE working on correcting this here in Alabama.

~U2Alabama
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Old 07-08-2003, 08:56 AM   #39
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Originally posted by U2Bama
I have heard of those two nuns down in South Alabama; they also facilitate health care services for many of the poor residents in, I think, Lowndes County.

~U2Alabama
I forget exactly where it was...I will check to see if I still have the newspaper articles I wrote from the trip. I thought it was in Central, but not knowing the state, you may be right.

We were based out of Selma - and this was a an overnight trip. It truly changed my view of this country.

Another shocking thing I saw in this town: there were these small two/three room shacks that had families of anywhere from four to eight people residing in them. We were repairing the front steps on one of the "shacks" (I really don't like using the term, but that is truly what they were) when I heard this roar in the sky.

I have never seen an Air Force jet come so close to the ground in my life. It almost looked as if the pilot was purposely flying low over this neighborhood - then pulling up about 1/4 mile away.

The grandfatherly gentleman snickered at my fear of the plane. He told me that they do that everyday. I did not find as much humor in it though.

Here is a multi-million dollar, tax-payer funded aircraft using this beaten-down little town with little wooden shacks where people with little or no income, barely affording rent (yes, these shacks were RENTED), to practice low-to-the-ground techniques. Nice contrast.

I don't want to sound like I am picking on Alabama, or the South for that matter, because you are going to find similar conditions all over the country. But, they are often hidden from our eyes. Not visible from the Interstates or our airliners.
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Old 07-08-2003, 07:47 PM   #40
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interesting discussion. My two cents? I'm proud to live here and I think its the greatest country in the world. But that doesn't mean that I can't demand better.

That being said, I think we need to improve our health care for impoverished Americans but I like our private system. Heard too many stories of Canadians coming to Detroit for better health care.
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Old 07-08-2003, 11:44 PM   #41
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Zonelistener:

If you were based in Selma, then it sounds like you were working in Lowndes County , which is just below Selma (Dallas County) and Montgomery County. I consider Montgomery northward to Birmingham to be "Central Alabama," and most everything below Montgomery to be "South Alabama," but Central is probably accurate for Lowndes County. I have spent some time there as well and it is indeed America's Third World. The BIRMINGHAM NEWS has done a good series on the region, known as "The Black Belt" because of the rich soil in the area. Here is the link:

http://www.al.com/specialreport/birm...blackbelt.html

Since that report was completed, we have learned that help is on the way; Senator Jeff Sessions, a Republican from Alabama, and Senator Zell Miller, a Democrat from Georgia, have succesfull pushed legislation through to provide health care assistance and other aid to the poorest citizens of the region, along with funding for newe roads that will hopefully lead to more industry (Hyundai is building a plant there as we speak) and thus more jobs.

More recently, the Republican Governor of Alabama, Bob Riley, and the Democratic Governor of Mississippi, have teamed up to pass en economic initiative for the area, bringing more jobs and hopefully improving the quality of life. Let's hope it works; it's needed. This is the part of the South where the high rate f HIV infections are coming from.

Regarding the overhead traffic that you witnessed, it is worth noting that Maxwell Air Force Base, Gunter Annex, and the Army Aviation Center at Fort Rucker are all within 100 miles of that area. They do not only fly over Lowndes County at low altitudes, but much of the communities along the I-65 corridor through that area. Also, Eglin Air Force Base (Destin/Ft Walton, FL), Tyndall Air Force Base (Panama City, FL) Panama City Naval Base, and Pensacola Naval Air Station send plenty of aerial traffic up and down the resort coastline of the Gulf Coast, even when U2Bama is trying to relax on the beach listening to his U2 cds and get a tan. I doubt if the pilot knew that y'all were a few feet below him.

I'm glad to hear that you were able to witness that part of America being from a different part of the country; I've witnessed some appalling sights in West Virginia myself. I think if we do take a rural freeway exit, we will see the good and the bad. Both exist.

~U2Alabama
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Old 07-09-2003, 12:00 AM   #42
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Originally posted by U2Bama
The BIRMINGHAM NEWS has done a good series on the region, known as "The Black Belt" because of the rich soil in the area. Here is the link:

http://www.al.com/specialreport/birm...blackbelt.html

Since that report was completed, we have learned that help is on the way; Senator Jeff Sessions, a Republican from Alabama, and Senator Zell Miller, a Democrat from Georgia, have succesfull pushed legislation through to provide health care assistance and other aid to the poorest citizens of the region, along with funding for newe roads that will hopefully lead to more industry (Hyundai is building a plant there as we speak) and thus more jobs.

More recently, the Republican Governor of Alabama, Bob Riley, and the Democratic Governor of Mississippi, have teamed up to pass en economic initiative for the area, bringing more jobs and hopefully improving the quality of life. Let's hope it works; it's needed. This is the part of the South where the high rate f HIV infections are coming from.
It is nice to see that partisan politics does not always get in the way of progress.
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Old 07-09-2003, 12:06 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


It is nice to see that partisan politics does not always get in the way of progress.
Indeed; we could all learn something from this.

~U2Alabama
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Old 07-09-2003, 08:25 PM   #44
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Thanks Bama...

I added that page to my favorites....a lot of good articles! Look forward to reading them.

I am glad people are paying attention to the area. Hopefully it wasn't the series that spawned action. I mean, I am all for journalism that spawns action (the article I wrote about the area was read by a local church group that ended up filling a truck full of stuff to bring down to the community). But, you would hope that it was a community ground swell, or a political eye-opening. Guess I need to read the articles. See what came first, the cart or the horse.

By the way, I also got an opportunity to sit in the Governor's Chair at the capitol in Montgomery. It was on a day between two terms...and they let our group goof around.

My friends have done work in West Virginia, as well as a few Indian reservations in the Dakotas. We all have very similar stories.

We do have a very interesting country!
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Old 07-09-2003, 10:09 PM   #45
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
It is nice to see that partisan politics does not always get in the way of progress.
They don't want real solutions. They just want some feel-good band-aid that looks good for the newspapers and fails in reality. That's because people thrive in elitism. How would Beverly Hills feel if Compton had the same quality schools? People say they want equality, but when it comes to actually doing something to attain it, they steadfastly oppose it.

In terms of equality in school funding, states could easily gather funds at the state, rather than local level, and distribute per-pupil funds evenly. But, after all, that would mean that rich Beverly Hills would be no better or worse in funding than poor South Central LA. And how could we live with ourselves if we weren't better than somebody?

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