10 Things for the USA to be Proud Of

[Dreadsox]

Is it only my last paragraph, your actual quote, that you didn?t agree with, I can live with that

If it makes you happy to believe this, that is fine with me

 

[Dreadsox]

[Q]"Twice in the 20th century, the United States saved the world: first from the Nazi threat, then from Soviet totalitarianism (...)After destroying Germany (...)"

Wrong. There were 4 allies and the U.S.S.R. lost 20 millions of soldiers. The Soviet Union was politically and economically collapsing, without anyone being saved.

[/Q]

Your point on the history end of things is correct in my opinion. However, that does not negate the entire idea presented by the author!

[Q]America has the kindest, gentlest foreign policy of any great power in world history.: Critics of the U.S. are likely to react to this truth with sputtering outrage. They will point to longstanding American support for a Latin or Middle Eastern despot, or the unjust internment of the Japanese during World War II, or America's reluctance to impose sanctions on South Africa's apartheid regime. However one feels about these particular cases, let us concede to the critics the point that America is not always in the right. [/Q]

It seems to me that the author is very balanced in his world view. The US is NOT perfect and he acknowledges mistakes of the past.

[Q]What the critics leave out is the other side of the ledger. Twice in the 20th century, the United States saved the world: first from the Nazi threat, then from Soviet totalitarianism. What would have been the world's fate if America had not existed? After destroying Germany and Japan in World War II, the U.S. proceeded to rebuild both countries, and today they are American allies.[/Q]

While I agree with you on the principle that the US needs to give some more credit to the USSR in the area of WWII, the second part of the statement clearly demonstrates that even though we were enemies with Germany and Japan, we did a lot to rebuild them. The emphasis was not so much on the US won the war alone, but on the fact that the US, as STING has pointed out in the past, did a lot to help rebuild the countries they were fighting and then leave them.

[Q] Now we are doing the same thing in Afghanistan and Iraq. Consider, too, how magnanimous the U.S. has been to the former Soviet Union after its victory in the Cold War. For the most part America is an abstaining superpower: It shows no real interest in conquering and subjugating the rest of the world. (Imagine how the Soviets would have acted if they had won the Cold War.) On occasion the America intervenes to overthrow a tyrannical regime or to halt massive human rights abuses in another country, but it never stays to rule that country. In Grenada, Haiti, and Bosnia, the U.S. got in and then it got out. Moreover, when America does get into a war, as in Iraq, its troops are supremely careful to avoid targeting civilians and to minimize collateral damage. Even as America bombed the Taliban infrastructure and hideouts, U.S. planes dropped rations of food to avert hardship and starvation of Afghan civilians. What other country does these things?[/Q]


I think this part is equally true. So while I agree with you on your point, I think the author makes a VERY good case for the main idea this statement "America has the kindest, gentlest foreign policy of any great power in world history."

 

[hiphop]

Yes it does and that?s fine with me too

edited to say I was referring to your post before of the last one, so yes it makes me happy and now good night (curtain)

 

[Dreadsox]

Yes it does and that?s fine with me too

edited to say I was referring to your post before of the last one, so yes it makes me happy and now good night (curtain)

Peace

 

[zonelistener]

"The poorest Americans have TV sets, microwave ovens, and cars."

Wrong. When I was in America last time, I saw people living on the streets, sleeping under bridges. They neither have the power plug for a microwave oven, let alone a T.V.

I did not read your whole post...so I am just going to get into this statement (I feel honesty is always the best practice).

Outside of the homeless you may have seen on the streets, this statement can be seen as fairly truthful.

I did some mission work in Mississippi and Alabama in college. We went to a really rural Alabama town - roughly about an hour away from any potential jobs. We were "winterizing" this one trailer home...and despite having no job, they had a TV with "The Price is Right" on in the background.

As we moved the cooler to get at a window, cockroaches and other assorted pests ran for their lives.

"Johnny, who is are next contestant?"

We winterized the windows, and decided to spend some time with the two toddlers of the house. One was lucky to have a dirty cloth diaper, the other only had a t-shirt.

"...And sarah, what is your bid on the bedroom set?"
"one dollar, bob."

The children were eating what was left of chicken breast, more or less nibbling at the bone marrow. The chicken was provided to this community by a butcher who took his "day old" meats, and donated it to these two nuns who helped the community.

"It's time for the shocase showdown..........."

God Bless America
Third World Country

 

[Dreadsox]

I did not read your whole post...so I am just going to get into this statement (I feel honesty is always the best practice).

Outside of the homeless you may have seen on the streets, this statement can be seen as fairly truthful.

I did some mission work in Mississippi and Alabama in college. We went to a really rural Alabama town - roughly about an hour away from any potential jobs. We were "winterizing" this one trailer home...and despite having no job, they had a TV with "The Price is Right" on in the background.

As we moved the cooler to get at a window, cockroaches and other assorted pests ran for their lives.

"Johnny, who is are next contestant?"

We winterized the windows, and decided to spend some time with the two toddlers of the house. One was lucky to have a dirty cloth diaper, the other only had a t-shirt.

"...And sarah, what is your bid on the bedroom set?"
"one dollar, bob."

The children were eating what was left of chicken breast, more or less nibbling at the bone marrow. The chicken was provided to this community by a butcher who took his "day old" meats, and donated it to these two nuns who helped the community.

"It's time for the shocase showdown..........."

God Bless America
Third World Country

 

[U2Bama]

I have heard of those two nuns down in South Alabama; they also facilitate health care services for many of the poor residents in, I think, Lowndes County.

~U2Alabama

 

[U2Bama]

Re: Re: 10 Things for the USA to be Proud Of

Or the social equality that makes sure a kid in Birmingham has the same education as one in Beverly Hills?

This is a fair comparison, but trust me that we ARE working on correcting this here in Alabama.

~U2Alabama

 

[zonelistener]

I have heard of those two nuns down in South Alabama; they also facilitate health care services for many of the poor residents in, I think, Lowndes County.

~U2Alabama

I forget exactly where it was...I will check to see if I still have the newspaper articles I wrote from the trip. I thought it was in Central, but not knowing the state, you may be right.

We were based out of Selma - and this was a an overnight trip. It truly changed my view of this country.

Another shocking thing I saw in this town: there were these small two/three room shacks that had families of anywhere from four to eight people residing in them. We were repairing the front steps on one of the "shacks" (I really don't like using the term, but that is truly what they were) when I heard this roar in the sky.

I have never seen an Air Force jet come so close to the ground in my life. It almost looked as if the pilot was purposely flying low over this neighborhood - then pulling up about 1/4 mile away.

The grandfatherly gentleman snickered at my fear of the plane. He told me that they do that everyday. I did not find as much humor in it though.

Here is a multi-million dollar, tax-payer funded aircraft using this beaten-down little town with little wooden shacks where people with little or no income, barely affording rent (yes, these shacks were RENTED), to practice low-to-the-ground techniques. Nice contrast.

I don't want to sound like I am picking on Alabama, or the South for that matter, because you are going to find similar conditions all over the country. But, they are often hidden from our eyes. Not visible from the Interstates or our airliners.

 

[sharky]

interesting discussion. My two cents? I'm proud to live here and I think its the greatest country in the world. But that doesn't mean that I can't demand better.

That being said, I think we need to improve our health care for impoverished Americans but I like our private system. Heard too many stories of Canadians coming to Detroit for better health care.

 

[U2Bama]

Zonelistener:

If you were based in Selma, then it sounds like you were working in Lowndes County , which is just below Selma (Dallas County) and Montgomery County. I consider Montgomery northward to Birmingham to be "Central Alabama," and most everything below Montgomery to be "South Alabama," but Central is probably accurate for Lowndes County. I have spent some time there as well and it is indeed America's Third World. The BIRMINGHAM NEWS has done a good series on the region, known as "The Black Belt" because of the rich soil in the area. Here is the link:

http://www.al.com/specialreport/birminghamnews/?blackbelt.html

Since that report was completed, we have learned that help is on the way; Senator Jeff Sessions, a Republican from Alabama, and Senator Zell Miller, a Democrat from Georgia, have succesfull pushed legislation through to provide health care assistance and other aid to the poorest citizens of the region, along with funding for newe roads that will hopefully lead to more industry (Hyundai is building a plant there as we speak) and thus more jobs.

More recently, the Republican Governor of Alabama, Bob Riley, and the Democratic Governor of Mississippi, have teamed up to pass en economic initiative for the area, bringing more jobs and hopefully improving the quality of life. Let's hope it works; it's needed. This is the part of the South where the high rate f HIV infections are coming from.

Regarding the overhead traffic that you witnessed, it is worth noting that Maxwell Air Force Base, Gunter Annex, and the Army Aviation Center at Fort Rucker are all within 100 miles of that area. They do not only fly over Lowndes County at low altitudes, but much of the communities along the I-65 corridor through that area. Also, Eglin Air Force Base (Destin/Ft Walton, FL), Tyndall Air Force Base (Panama City, FL) Panama City Naval Base, and Pensacola Naval Air Station send plenty of aerial traffic up and down the resort coastline of the Gulf Coast, even when U2Bama is trying to relax on the beach listening to his U2 cds and get a tan. I doubt if the pilot knew that y'all were a few feet below him.

I'm glad to hear that you were able to witness that part of America being from a different part of the country; I've witnessed some appalling sights in West Virginia myself. I think if we do take a rural freeway exit, we will see the good and the bad. Both exist.

~U2Alabama

 

[Dreadsox]

The BIRMINGHAM NEWS has done a good series on the region, known as "The Black Belt" because of the rich soil in the area. Here is the link:

http://www.al.com/specialreport/birminghamnews/?blackbelt.html

Since that report was completed, we have learned that help is on the way; Senator Jeff Sessions, a Republican from Alabama, and Senator Zell Miller, a Democrat from Georgia, have succesfull pushed legislation through to provide health care assistance and other aid to the poorest citizens of the region, along with funding for newe roads that will hopefully lead to more industry (Hyundai is building a plant there as we speak) and thus more jobs.

More recently, the Republican Governor of Alabama, Bob Riley, and the Democratic Governor of Mississippi, have teamed up to pass en economic initiative for the area, bringing more jobs and hopefully improving the quality of life. Let's hope it works; it's needed. This is the part of the South where the high rate f HIV infections are coming from.

It is nice to see that partisan politics does not always get in the way of progress.

 

[U2Bama]

It is nice to see that partisan politics does not always get in the way of progress.

Indeed; we could all learn something from this.

~U2Alabama

 

[zonelistener]

Thanks Bama...

I added that page to my favorites....a lot of good articles! Look forward to reading them.

I am glad people are paying attention to the area. Hopefully it wasn't the series that spawned action. I mean, I am all for journalism that spawns action (the article I wrote about the area was read by a local church group that ended up filling a truck full of stuff to bring down to the community). But, you would hope that it was a community ground swell, or a political eye-opening. Guess I need to read the articles. See what came first, the cart or the horse.

By the way, I also got an opportunity to sit in the Governor's Chair at the capitol in Montgomery. It was on a day between two terms...and they let our group goof around.

My friends have done work in West Virginia, as well as a few Indian reservations in the Dakotas. We all have very similar stories.

We do have a very interesting country!

 

[melon]

It is nice to see that partisan politics does not always get in the way of progress.

They don't want real solutions. They just want some feel-good band-aid that looks good for the newspapers and fails in reality. That's because people thrive in elitism. How would Beverly Hills feel if Compton had the same quality schools? People say they want equality, but when it comes to actually doing something to attain it, they steadfastly oppose it.

In terms of equality in school funding, states could easily gather funds at the state, rather than local level, and distribute per-pupil funds evenly. But, after all, that would mean that rich Beverly Hills would be no better or worse in funding than poor South Central LA. And how could we live with ourselves if we weren't better than somebody?

Melon

 

[U2Bama]

They don't want real solutions. They just want some feel-good band-aid that looks good for the newspapers and fails in reality. That's because people thrive in elitism. How would Beverly Hills feel if Compton had the same quality schools? People say they want equality, but when it comes to actually doing something to attain it, they steadfastly oppose it.

In terms of equality in school funding, states could easily gather funds at the state, rather than local level, and distribute per-pupil funds evenly. But, after all, that would mean that rich Beverly Hills would be no better or worse in funding than poor South Central LA. And how could we live with ourselves if we weren't better than somebody?

Melon

You're either (1) stating falsehoods because you are not familiar with the local situation and action being taken to address it or (2) you are lying because you don't want Southern politicians to be seen for doing something good.

The current Governor made it a platform topic even before he announced his candidacy that Alabama's tax structure is immoral due to the burden it places on the poorest Alabamians and that the same tax structure does not apply education dollars where they are need the most int he poorer districts.

Why would he be doing this for a photo op or feel good measure if, right now, just over 6 months into his administration, he is pretty much DOOMED from being re-elected because of an unpopular tax reform plan? If I have ever seen a politician who wants REAL SOLUTIONS at the expense of pop appeal, it is Governor Riley. Guess what? Two chairmen of the State Republican Party, (the past chair and the current chair), have opposed his plan; the chairman of the state Democratic Party, a former U.S. Prosecutor, fully SUPPORTS the Governor's plan; the Business Council of Alabama supports it; Alabama Power Company supports it; Alabama Arise, a lobbying/advocacy group for the state's poor, supports it; The "Christian Coalition of Alabama" opposes it; the United Methodist Church conferences support it; the Episcopal Diocese supports it; the state Southern Baptists Convention supports tax reform in general; the Alabama Farmers' Federation opposes it; the timber interests oppose it.

Look, I've really been getting tired of politicians and politics in general these days, but I do think some positive measures are being taken to enact PERMANENT solutions for Alabama's Black Belt. As much as I despise him, I must give credit to the previous Governor for directing a new Hyundai plant to the region; the jobs are needed there; more and more jobs are needed there. What you may see as "feel-good band-aid" can be more than that if you direct thousands of jobs to the part of the state with the highest unemployment rates, and if the state economic structure is made fairer. Rather than slap everything down that is achieved, look at the positive potential of it. Life will be much more pleasant.

~U2Alabama

 

[U2Bama]

Zonelistener:

Legislation to provide economic assistance to the Black Belt region has been gaining momentum over the past few years, but I must admit that it started to move faster when this series was published and another series was published in the BIRMINGHAM POST HERALD (although the latter series is no longer online).

~U2Alabama

 

[speedracer]

They don't want real solutions. They just want some feel-good band-aid that looks good for the newspapers and fails in reality. That's because people thrive in elitism. How would Beverly Hills feel if Compton had the same quality schools? People say they want equality, but when it comes to actually doing something to attain it, they steadfastly oppose it.

In terms of equality in school funding, states could easily gather funds at the state, rather than local level, and distribute per-pupil funds evenly. But, after all, that would mean that rich Beverly Hills would be no better or worse in funding than poor South Central LA. And how could we live with ourselves if we weren't better than somebody?

Melon

My own very rich and very Democratic hometown of West Bloomfield, MI has been consistently opposed to such measures for as long as I can remember.

 

[Citron]

Grandness

I think the big difference between the USA and other states/countries is that we like to advertise, which is always misleading, much in the way the new laundry detergent is not really "new and improved" , but the same old crap. We tend to say one thing and do another, which is easily refelected in our social lives and workplace politics. These things may exist elsewhere, but I think we are the most grandiose. i love my country, but we should all be careful when our fellow citizens suggest ideas that simply perpetuate the status quo, rather than offering any significant change as an alternative.

 

[verte76]

The current Governor made it a platform topic even before he announced his candidacy that Alabama's tax structure is immoral due to the burden it places on the poorest Alabamians and that the same tax structure does not apply education dollars where they are need the most int he poorer districts.

Why would he be doing this for a photo op or feel good measure if, right now, just over 6 months into his administration, he is pretty much DOOMED from being re-elected because of an unpopular tax reform plan? If I have ever seen a politician who wants REAL SOLUTIONS at the expense of pop appeal, it is Governor Riley. Guess what? Two chairmen of the State Republican Party, (the past chair and the current chair), have opposed his plan; the chairman of the state Democratic Party, a former U.S. Prosecutor, fully SUPPORTS the Governor's plan; the Business Council of Alabama supports it; Alabama Power Company supports it; Alabama Arise, a lobbying/advocacy group for the state's poor, supports it; The "Christian Coalition of Alabama" opposes it; the United Methodist Church conferences support it; the Episcopal Diocese supports it; the state Southern Baptists Convention supports tax reform in general; the Alabama Farmers' Federation opposes it; the timber interests oppose it.

~U2Alabama

This is true. I didn't even support this guy's campaign, but I support the tax reform package that all of these right-wingers are screaming about. I've read letters written by these people to the newspapers ad nauseum. They don't want to live up to their civic responsibilities, so they are hiding behind a bunch of moralistic as an excuse. You'd have to be here to believe some of this . I'm tired of these idiots holding my state hostage against any kind of progress or change. We've managed to get more jobs and more help for the poorest citizens of our state, and that's a great development. I can't believe these people who are actually against this. It's awful.

 

[theSoulfulMofo]

you know what would be an interesting comparison thread: 10 things USA Would Not Admit...

(I'm a cynic when it comes to nationalism/blind patriotism, etc. )

But I don't feel like brewing trouble.

lates,

 

[melon]

The current Governor made it a platform topic even before he announced his candidacy that Alabama's tax structure is immoral due to the burden it places on the poorest Alabamians and that the same tax structure does not apply education dollars where they are need the most int he poorer districts.

First off, I wasn't even commenting on Southerners. The reason why I used California for an example is because it was something that could be universally recognized, perhaps. This is neither a North, South, East, West, or Midwest problem solely. They ALL have this problem. The problem is both the result of politicians looking for political expediency and voters who refuse to look at issues beyond two words: "tax cuts."

I am not familiar with your governor beyond what you have mentioned about him, but I commend him for being courageous enough to make such a stance. Few governors, Republican or Democrat, would have enough guts to make a case like that.

Melon

 

[melon]

My own very rich and very Democratic hometown of West Bloomfield, MI has been consistently opposed to such measures for as long as I can remember.

I actually had Michigan in mind when I wrote this rant, so I am in agreement with you.

Melon

 

[U2Bama]

Thank you Melon, and I apologize for misinterpreting your original post. Apparently you and I agree in our general views of politicians of all parties, regions, etc. I guess I m just glad to see one doing something that will make this state a better place 5 years from now for all of the citizens instead of doing what he thinks will get him re-elected in 3 years.

~U2Alabama

 

[U2Bama]

One other thing which I forgot to mention but that I think is relevant in this thread concerns two of Alabama's U.S. Congressmen and their reaction to President Bush's $15BB African AIDS initiative.

Many of you are aware that Congressman Spencer Bachus (Republican from Vestavia Hills) was one of the initial sponsors of the debt relief campaign led by the Jubilee organizations and preached by Bono; Congressman Bachus even took Bono around Capitol Hill and introduced him to other Senators and Congressmen, and worked through both the Clinton and Bush administrations to get the debt legislation passed.

Therefore, I expected Bachus to be jubilant and supportive when President Bush announced the $15BB initiative for the African AIDS crisis. I expected the same of Alabama's Democratic African-American Congressman, the freshman Artur Davis from Birmingham. Although they said they would ultimately support the initiative, they said they could not do so in good conscience without knowing that something would be done for the local epidemic in Alabama's Black Belt region. Fortunately, they have gotten support for the region and help is on the way (as I have stated), but I do think it is possible for politicians, maybe a small minority of them but from either political party, to do the right thing.

~U2Alabama

 

[RockNRollDawgie]

1 thing for the USA not to be proud of:

George W. Bush

 

[Elusive]

UN Human Development Index Released - Norway is #1;

The United Nations Development Programme released their Human Development Report 2003 . Surprisingly, Canada suffered, falling below the U.S. for the first time to #8 in this year's list. For the seven years prior to 2001, Canada was #1.

The top twenty are:
1: Norway (1)
2: Iceland (5)
3: Sweden (2)
4: Australia (4)
5: The Netherlands (8)
6: Belgium (4)
7: U.S.A. (6)
8: Canada (3)
9: Japan (9)
10: Switserland (11)
-
11 Denmark,
12 Ireland,
13 Britain,
14 Finland,
15 Luxembourg,
16 Austria,
17 France,
18 Germany,
19 Spain
20 New Zealand

hdr.undp.org/

go eat your freedom fries and shush

 

[Basstrap]

it's sad to see canada so far down

that was something we used to always turn to if someone ragged on us

"my dad can beat up your dad",

"oh yeah; the UN said we're the best country in the world to live in"

 

[Klaus]

Wow 70% of the top 20 are european countries i must admit i'm a little surprised