10 questions to Christians - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-04-2007, 09:07 AM   #2
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 10:59 AM
I'm a practicing Catholic. I don't take the Bible literally. It's the fundamentalists who believe that the Bible is literally true. They're the ones this video is aimed at, I think.
__________________

__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 11-04-2007, 09:39 AM   #3
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
2861U2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: watching the Cubs
Posts: 4,255
Local Time: 05:59 AM
Wow.

No thanks.

I stopped watching after the first question.
__________________
2861U2 is offline  
Old 11-04-2007, 09:44 AM   #4
ONE
love, blood, life
 
U2isthebest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vision over visibility....
Posts: 12,332
Local Time: 06:59 AM
I'm working on this. I'm about to leave for church, and I'll be thinking about it. It might actually be a few days before I get everything hashed out. I'm treating this like a paper.
__________________
U2isthebest is offline  
Old 11-04-2007, 09:55 AM   #5
Refugee
 
MadelynIris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Craggy Island
Posts: 1,504
Local Time: 05:59 AM
Lol. Ok, I'll bite.

You see, at the center of all religions is the idea of Karma. You know, what you put out comes back to you: an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, or in physics—in physical laws—every action is met by an equal or an opposite one. It's clear to me that Karma is at the very heart of the universe. I'm absolutely sure of it. And yet, along comes this idea called Grace to upend all that "as you reap, so you will sow" stuff. Grace defies reason and logic. Love interrupts, if you like, the consequences of your actions, which in my case is very good news indeed, because I've done a lot of stupid stuff.

^ That is the beauty of Christ -- in reality (to many Christians) or in concept (to many Christians). God turned the contract upside down.

The old contract was: keep the law -- crazy stuff like sacrificing sheep, not lusting after someone in your mind, and cutting your hands off. Hmmm.. man, that's impossible!

The new contract is: Since it's clear that the law cannot be kept (were we setup by God, or did we get the concept wrong?) This never ending battle of keeping the law is wearing out us, and God (I'd presume).

Call in the new contract: In keeping with old contract symbology -- I will make one sacrifice (reversing the concept) for you. But before I do, I need to make clear what I really meant. That is, the most important law, the intent of my commandements, is for you to love one another, treat each other with respect, and to be just with each other -- by doing this, you show love and respect for me.

Some people buy into the physical realities of Jesus and the apostles, some people buy into the concepts.

I'm not going to comment on the guy in the video, other than, I think it is very, very dangerous to declare the removal of the Bible from society, and the outcast of Christians due to their state of delusion. If that were to ever happen in America, it would be a sad, sad day indeed.
__________________
MadelynIris is offline  
Old 11-04-2007, 09:57 AM   #6
ONE
love, blood, life
 
U2isthebest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vision over visibility....
Posts: 12,332
Local Time: 06:59 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris
Lol. Ok, I'll bite.

You see, at the center of all religions is the idea of Karma. You know, what you put out comes back to you: an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, or in physics—in physical laws—every action is met by an equal or an opposite one. It's clear to me that Karma is at the very heart of the universe. I'm absolutely sure of it. And yet, along comes this idea called Grace to upend all that "as you reap, so you will sow" stuff. Grace defies reason and logic. Love interrupts, if you like, the consequences of your actions, which in my case is very good news indeed, because I've done a lot of stupid stuff.

That is the beauty of Christ, in reality (to many Christians) or in concept (to many Christians). God turned the contract upside down.

The old contract was: keep the law -- crazy stuff like sacrificing sheep, not lusting after someone in your mind, and cutting your hands off. Hmmm.. man, that's impossible!

The new contract is: Since it's clear that the law cannot be kept (were we setup by God, or did we get the concept wrong?) This never ending battle of keeping the law is wearing out us, and God (I'd presume).

Call in the new contract: In keeping with old contract symbology -- I will make one sacrifice (reversing the concept) for you. But before I do, I need to make clear what I really meant. That is, the most important law, the intent of my commandements, is for you to love one another, treat each other with respect, and to be just with each other -- by doing this, you show love and respect for me.

Some people buy into the physical realities of Jesus and the apostles, some people buy into the concepts.

I'm not going to comment on the guy in the video, other than, I think it is very, very dangerous to declare the removal of the Bible from society, and the outcast of Christians due to their state of delusion. If that were to ever happen in America, it would be a sad, sad day indeed.
You stole your first paragraph from Bono.

I love what you said too!
__________________
U2isthebest is offline  
Old 11-04-2007, 10:01 AM   #7
Refugee
 
MadelynIris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Craggy Island
Posts: 1,504
Local Time: 05:59 AM
Quote:
You stole your first paragraph from Bono
Shhh.... you weren't supposed to let on. It was a setup.
__________________
MadelynIris is offline  
Old 11-04-2007, 10:43 AM   #8
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Zoots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: the great beyond
Posts: 36,802
Local Time: 12:59 PM
Wow. That was interesting.

Are all those verses really from the bible? I don't know because I'm not Christian.
__________________
Zoots is offline  
Old 11-04-2007, 11:02 AM   #9
Refugee
 
MadelynIris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Craggy Island
Posts: 1,504
Local Time: 05:59 AM
Zootlesque -- I can't remember now, but I think they were all quotes from what most Christians call the 'old testament', specifically, Deuteronomy and Leviticus, which are documentation on laws that the Isrealites added on to the 10 commandments.

What I tried to convey in my post, is that the very basic tenants of Christianity are built upon the idea that we are no longer bound to those, through a new deal that God offered through Jesus Christ -- hence the name "Christianity" and all of the "newnews" that one might here in this message, e.g., New Covenant, New Life, reborn, renewed, restored... all that kind of symbology.

So, the fact that the old law exists, is the very reason for Christ. If we didn't have those crazy laws, the impact/importance, and beauty of Christ would be lost.

Many will still debate some of Paul's writings in the New Testament, especially concerning homosexuality, but that is also BEYOND and ADDED TO Christ's simple message.
__________________
MadelynIris is offline  
Old 11-04-2007, 11:29 AM   #10
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,295
Local Time: 05:59 AM
I actually believe in the concept of karma over the concept of grace. I think it makes me lead a better life, I think I've been a better person for it. Oftentimes I think that "grace" is a word that is tossed around by a lot of Christians in an inappropriate way, both to justify their shitty lives and decision making, and to use it as a tool to convince others of the glory of the Christian God over the one they have.

In the end, I am not sure it makes much of a difference whether you live your lives according to the concept of karma or the one of grace. But I hate that grace is thrown around as the magical word that solves everything. It's become cheapened in many ways.
__________________
anitram is offline  
Old 11-04-2007, 11:49 AM   #11
Refugee
 
MadelynIris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Craggy Island
Posts: 1,504
Local Time: 05:59 AM
Quote:
and to use it as a tool to convince others of the glory of the Christian God over the one they have
I understand, but usually there is something that helps you choose a direction, say Christianity, over another way, say Islam. The concept of grace is a differentiator.

Just like some choose coke over pepsi. There is something different about the two, that helps make the decision.
__________________
MadelynIris is offline  
Old 11-04-2007, 01:05 PM   #12
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 05:59 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
I actually believe in the concept of karma over the concept of grace. I think it makes me lead a better life, I think I've been a better person for it. Oftentimes I think that "grace" is a word that is tossed around by a lot of Christians in an inappropriate way, both to justify their shitty lives and decision making, and to use it as a tool to convince others of the glory of the Christian God over the one they have.
While Christian Protestantism has long glossed over this fact, Christianity, for millennia, was predominated by the idea of faith and good works for salvation. The early Christian church, as depicted in the subtext of the New Testament, was divided on this subject. St. Paul and his Gentile-dominated Church of Antioch believed in faith alone for salvation, and his epistles drive that point across repeatedly. Sts. Peter and James and their Jewish Christian Church of Jerusalem believed in faith and good works, and their few surviving contributions to the New Testament reflect this.

"What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day, and one of you says to them, 'Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well,' but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it? So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead. Indeed someone might say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works. You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble. Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works. Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, 'Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,' and he was called 'the friend of God.' See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route? For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead." - James 2:14-26

Although Jewish Christianity was effectively annihilated by the 2nd century A.D., I would say that this teaching was their main contribution to Christianity up until the Protestant Reformation, when Paul's view on faith alone for salvation took over again.

In practice, this debate of "faith alone vs. faith and works" is archaic and based on semantics. The Vatican, a decade or so ago, effectively declared that the Catholic and Protestant views on this subject were essentially identical.
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 11-04-2007, 03:19 PM   #13
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30,343
Local Time: 05:59 AM
God didn't write the Bible.
__________________
phillyfan26 is offline  
Old 11-04-2007, 05:58 PM   #14
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 11:59 AM
Re: 10 questions to Christians

Expecting more than a couple people to bother watching 20+ minutes of video in order to be able to respond directly is a wee bit unrealistic, especially when you didn't make even the slightest effort to explain in your own words what the import of the videos is, or which topics from them you wished to discuss.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 11-04-2007, 06:38 PM   #15
Blue Crack Addict
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the dog house
Posts: 19,557
Local Time: 05:59 AM
Re: Re: 10 questions to Christians

Quote:
Originally posted by yolland

Expecting more than a couple people to bother watching 20+ minutes of video in order to be able to respond directly is a wee bit unrealistic, especially when you didn't make even the slightest effort to explain in your own words what the import of the videos is, or which topics from them you wished to discuss.
Yeah really. What are the questions? I'm not wasting 20 minutes on YouTube...
__________________

__________________
Liesje is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com