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Old 06-28-2005, 03:15 PM   #91
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


What is stopping you?

If the Bible is only the thoughts of men, it wouldn't be worth following and would likely have disappeared generations ago.


says you.

i believe that the Bible is only the thoughts of men. perhaps good thoughts, but mortal thoughts.

only i'm not telling the courts to endorse that belief through monuments.

again: secularism. it's the only thing that allows you to believe in the way you want to believe.
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Old 06-28-2005, 08:19 PM   #92
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Well I know that the bible is not just words or thoughts from men, but words of wisdom from God written by prophets called of God. And how do I know this, I have prayed and asked God, and he has confirmed it to me, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
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Old 06-28-2005, 08:22 PM   #93
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Originally posted by macphisto23
And how do I know this, I have prayed and asked God, and he has confirmed it to me, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
Or is that the Spenta Mainyu? The origin of the ambiguous "Holy Spirit" is Zoroastrian and it's an archangel.

But that's interesting. When I prayed and asked God, He said the Old Testament was written by minions of the Persian King Cyrus the Great, with the New Testament being a mesh of the Jewish Christian "Church of Jerusalem," but mostly dominated by the Gentile Christian "Church of Antioch," and formally canonized by the early Catholic Church in the 4th century AD. So who shall I believe?

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Old 06-28-2005, 09:17 PM   #94
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Originally posted by melon


Or is that the Spenta Mainyu? The origin of the ambiguous "Holy Spirit" is Zoroastrian and it's an archangel.

But that's interesting. When I prayed and asked God, He said the Old Testament was written by minions of the Persian King Cyrus the Great, with the New Testament being a mesh of the Jewish Christian "Church of Jerusalem," but mostly dominated by the Gentile Christian "Church of Antioch," and formally canonized by the early Catholic Church in the 4th century AD. So who shall I believe?

Melon
If you sincerely prayed to God and asked him with true purpose, and he gave you that awnser through the Holy Ghost or some revelation, then i can not tell you otherwise. But I have sincerely prayed and asked God, it wasnt easy to get an answer, as I did not know how I would get an answer from god, and I was very confused at the time with religion, etc... But through fasting and prayer, and a sincere heart, I recieved an answer to my prayers through the power of Holy Ghost, and I can not deny it, because it is feelings undeniable, and it is a peace and love I had never felt before, I cant explain it because I would just be taking away from the experience.
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Old 06-29-2005, 02:38 AM   #95
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No court in Australia would attempt to get away with this kind of nonsense.

I'm so glad to live in Australia!
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Old 06-29-2005, 07:42 AM   #96
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Originally posted by cardosino
Muslim...fair trial.......bwahahaha!!!!!!!!

Do you know ANYTHING about Islamic countries ???
That's a really rude and insulting statement. What do you know about countries where the majority of persons practice Islam? Have you any personal experience that would lead you to make this claim?

I'm not Muslim but I grew up in the largest Muslim country in the world, am living in a country where about 90% of the population follow Islam and my boyfriend is a Muslim. When you make blanket statements like that which assume that all Muslims and all interpretations of Islam are the same, it is insulting and downright ignorant.
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Old 06-29-2005, 07:56 AM   #97
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finally somebody who is able to to talk first hand about islam too
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Old 06-29-2005, 08:15 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally posted by macphisto23
Well I know that the bible is not just words or thoughts from men, but words of wisdom from God written by prophets called of God. And how do I know this, I have prayed and asked God, and he has confirmed it to me, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

no. no you do not know this. you cannot know this.

you can have faith, you can believe, but you CANNOT know.

this is what drives people crazy about some Christians. they pretend to know, when religion is all about faith. you *choose* to believe because you cannot know. i in no way mean to demean what ever religious experience you might have had, and while i'm sure the experience was very real, it was real TO YOU and would not necessarily be real to anyone else.

a little humility, please.
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Old 06-29-2005, 09:57 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



no. no you do not know this. you cannot know this.

you can have faith, you can believe, but you CANNOT know.

this is what drives people crazy about some Christians. they pretend to know, when religion is all about faith. you *choose* to believe because you cannot know. i in no way mean to demean what ever religious experience you might have had, and while i'm sure the experience was very real, it was real TO YOU and would not necessarily be real to anyone else.

a little humility, please.
Before I recieved an answer from God I believed, now I KNOW, and believe. Its not an issue of humility at all, I dont understand your point there?
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Old 06-29-2005, 10:02 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
this is what drives people crazy about some Christians. they pretend to know, when religion is all about faith. you *choose* to believe because you cannot know. i in no way mean to demean what ever religious experience you might have had, and while i'm sure the experience was very real, it was real TO YOU and would not necessarily be real to anyone else.

a little humility, please.
Please, a little humility. Actually, Biblical teaching shows that our faith comes from God - so it is not a choice as you suggest. It comes from God so that we cannot boast about our choice.
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Old 06-29-2005, 10:03 AM   #101
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we cannot boast about anything actually
since we deserve death and we've been saved from it
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Old 06-29-2005, 11:04 AM   #102
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Originally posted by macphisto23


Before I recieved an answer from God I believed, now I KNOW, and believe. Its not an issue of humility at all, I dont understand your point there?


no. you do not. you cannot know. god cannot be proved, and if you were to "prove" the existence of god, you'd be missing the point.

you have FAITH, not facts.

you say you received a message from god. if we're going to use your word as truth, then it's just as legitimate for me to say that you're utterly delusional.

but i would never say that, because i respect the fact that people have religious experiences. but i resent it when people use their highly subjective emotional experiences as objective truth.
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Old 06-29-2005, 11:10 AM   #103
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


Please, a little humility. Actually, Biblical teaching shows that our faith comes from God - so it is not a choice as you suggest. It comes from God so that we cannot boast about our choice.


i am dumbfounded by this. we clearly don't live in the same world. you ASSUME the inerrancy of the Bible, so you're drawing a conclusion from a hugely debatable starting point.

you choose to believe. you have made a decision to believe the words in the Bible. for you to tell yourself anything else is delusional. faith comes from your own will, and i don't care what the Bible says. you cannot use Scripture to prove Scripture -- what kind of closed, self-justifying system is that? and that's precisely the point. at it's core, ALL religions are belief systems. you have bought into one, and more power to you.

to insist that your choices and experiences are then evidence of empirical truth is what demands humility, not my assertion that, while real to you, emotional experiences of faith are in no way, shape, or form objectively true.

the need for humility is in your court, sir, not mine.

i have no problems with the way you live your life, but i have a big problem when you insist that the way you live your life is the only way for life to be (correctly) lived.
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Old 06-29-2005, 11:27 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



you cannot use Scripture to prove Scripture -- what kind of closed, self-justifying system is that?
Exactly.

The only absolutes in life is that you were born and you will die. Everything in between is faith.
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Old 06-29-2005, 11:36 AM   #105
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Interesting that you can make absolute statements about absolutes.

Scripture defining Scripture is the best interpretation methodology.

Sorry you don't like my "closed, self-justifying system" called Christianity.
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