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Old 06-27-2005, 06:09 PM   #46
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar



So printing 'God' on money and posting the 10 commandments will increase America's morality?

Yes, think about it


They may help you live a more moral life but not all.

What wrong do they do? They divide, just take a look around and not through your own religion's glasses.
Please explain, I really dont know how they divide, (the murderes from the innocent people, the adulteres, the thiefs) I guess then that the laws of the land divide also.
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Old 06-27-2005, 06:13 PM   #47
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I thought people came here for religious freedom
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Old 06-27-2005, 06:14 PM   #48
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Originally posted by u2bonogirl
I thought people came here for religious freedom
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Old 06-27-2005, 06:15 PM   #49
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Originally posted by macphisto23
"In the past 50 years we have seen huge increases in violent crimes, drug use, teenage pregnancy, and divorce. We have also seen God taken out of our schools, our courtrooms, and our workplaces.
Hmmm...

I was reading an article once in an old Seventeen magazine in which a girl came to school with a gun one day and shot at her classmates. Thankfully, nobody died, but a couple of people got injured.

Funny thing was, this was at a religious school. Matter of fact, the kids had just had mass right before the incident.

And I just watched a show on the BTK killer. Know what? He worked with the local church.

Care to explain those two stories to me? Those people had associations with religion. And yet they still did horrible things. How does that work?

*Not intending this to say that all religious people are evil. Just trying to make a point about how morality and religion aren't always synonomous*

Quote:
Originally posted by macphisto23
In 1973 it became legal to murder an unborn baby out of convenience for the mom, and to protect her "rights" without any discussion of the babies' rights.
I'm skipping this portion because I've debated this issue to death, but I don't doubt others will be along to discuss this part with you.

Quote:
Originally posted by macphisto23
Pornography, adultery, and homosexuality have become accepted ways to express our God-given sensual desires.
Pornography, personally, I don't see it as a sin, at least not so long as everybody involved is fully consenting and of legal age. If people want to get together and have sex, and they want to film it, I don't really care.

Adultery, I agree, is wrong...but again, religious people aren't free from that problem.

Homosexuality, I've never seen as a sin, nor will I ever. I don't think there is a single thing wrong with two men or two women being in a loving, committed relationship. And there's also quite a few homosexuals who are religious.

Again: religion and morality are not always synonomous.

Angela
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Old 06-27-2005, 06:23 PM   #50
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Im unsure of your history lessons, please direct me where I can read about this.
There's a lot out there. Here's one of my favorites from John Adams' book, "A Defense of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America" (1787-88):

"The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses."

Quote:
How are the religious fanatics ruining what this country was built on? Why do you think they hate America? I m not a religious fanatic, but I do have high standards and morals, and so did this country when it was formed. "In the past 50 years we have seen huge increases in violent crimes, drug use, teenage pregnancy, and divorce. We have also seen God taken out of our schools, our courtrooms, and our workplaces. In 1973 it became legal to murder an unborn baby out of convenience for the mom, and to protect her "rights" without any discussion of the babies' rights. The sins of our nation rise as high as the heavens. Pornography, adultery, and homosexuality have become accepted ways to express our God-given sensual desires. Rape, murder, and rage have filled our streets, and our schools."
Abortion has existed for thousands of years. Ancient texts often record substances that could be used to induce labor for unwanted pregnancies, along with the existence of some texts that list punishments for using those substances. However, let's put it this way, if people wanted to have an abortion, they knew how. Or, if you were one of the Inuit, you just left your baby out in the cold and let it die.

And who says that, over the past 50 years that we've seen an increase in violent crime? Ask a black person what they'd say about that. Over the past 50 years, they haven't worried about getting lynched for looking at a white woman the wrong way. But I guess when good Christians hang people, they deserve it, right?

Pornography has also existed for thousands of years. Gotta love those ancient paintings of Indians (from India) engaging in group sex.

Adultery has also been very commonplace; they just used to put nice names on it. It was said that you married out of convenience, but then you'd have a mistress out of love. It was only until the 19th century that then-liberal Protestants believed that marriage should be out of love, not for dowries or property alliances. That's probably why much of the world still has arranged marriages; they still don't believe marriage should be out of love.

And homosexuality. You can kindly fuck off. My boyfriend and I have more morality than most of the fucking heteros that I know. If you don't like homosexuality, don't partake in it. Period. Science and reason have long since determined that it's natural, and it's due time for religion to wake up to reality.

Quote:
Are you so blind to not see that this country is falling in its morals and standards that it was built upon. GOD BLESS AMERICA!
You're so blind that you listen to every crackpot minister that tells you that. In the 19th century, they said the same thing. That our "morals" were falling apart. Blah blah blah. They've said the same thing every year for 2000 years, and only the blind would continue to believe it.

The fact remains that we are living in the most peaceful and tolerant time the world has ever known, and it has mostly to do with the fact that, with increasing education levels, people are realizing what a joke religion has become, and that "love" in Christianity is selective. Thankfully, the days of religion causing war is increasingly coming to an end; but I guess we still have our modern Crusades in the "war on terror."

Melon
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Old 06-27-2005, 06:25 PM   #51
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Nah, Melon, don't bring history and the facts into it, you've got it all wrong, the Western World is drowning in a tide of liberal filth and the 'liberal elite' are the ones to blame apparently.
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Old 06-27-2005, 06:27 PM   #52
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Originally posted by melon
[B]And homosexuality. You can kindly fuck off. My boyfriend and I have more morality than most of the fucking heteros that I know. If you don't like homosexuality, don't partake in it. [B]
I'm not gay but I admire the way you take the double standards of the 'moral' majority and shove it back in their faces.
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Old 06-27-2005, 06:29 PM   #53
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Nah, Melon, don't bring history and the facts into it, you've got it all wrong, the Western World is drowning in a tide of liberal filth and the 'liberal elite' are the ones to blame apparently.
Yes, well after the second Great Awakening of 1835-ish, the newly created concoction that we now call "evangelical Christianity" rewrote the history of our Founding Fathers as a recruitment tool. It helps that the Founding Fathers were all dead, at this point, so they no longer could defend themselves.

But think about it: no other nation "worships" their founders like we do, and, as I see it, any institution that resorts to lies for recruitment purposes isn't worth believing in.

This article is great, BTW:

http://www.sullivan-county.com/id3/debate.htm

It lists all the supposed "Christian" ideas of our Founding Fathers, discusses where these fallacies came from, and explains why they're wrong.

Melon
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Old 06-27-2005, 06:48 PM   #54
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Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel


Hmmm...

I was reading an article once in an old Seventeen magazine in which a girl came to school with a gun one day and shot at her classmates. Thankfully, nobody died, but a couple of people got injured.

Funny thing was, this was at a religious school. Matter of fact, the kids had just had mass right before the incident.

And I just watched a show on the BTK killer. Know what? He worked with the local church.

Care to explain those two stories to me? Those people had associations with religion. And yet they still did horrible things. How does that work?

*Not intending this to say that all religious people are evil. Just trying to make a point about how morality and religion aren't always synonomous*



I'm skipping this portion because I've debated this issue to death, but I don't doubt others will be along to discuss this part with you.



Pornography, personally, I don't see it as a sin, at least not so long as everybody involved is fully consenting and of legal age. If people want to get together and have sex, and they want to film it, I don't really care.

Adultery, I agree, is wrong...but again, religious people aren't free from that problem.

Homosexuality, I've never seen as a sin, nor will I ever. I don't think there is a single thing wrong with two men or two women being in a loving, committed relationship. And there's also quite a few homosexuals who are religious.

Again: religion and morality are not always synonomous.

Angela
Im not talking about religion and schools, Im talking about God and the Laws that he gave our founding fathers and this free country he gave us to live in, and how we are turning our back on what this country was built on, trust in God. I dont need to explain why there was a murder in a religious school, or some religious person committed adultery, I think you know the answer, I think you can figure it out.

Im not trying to degrade the homosexuals, but anyone that believes the bible, as I do, believes that it is a sin. Nobody's better then anybody down here on earth.
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Old 06-27-2005, 07:02 PM   #55
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Please explain, I really dont know how they divide, (the murderes from the innocent people, the adulteres, the thiefs) I guess then that the laws of the land divide also.
Read the thread, re-read my previous posts. These commandments many don't apply to people of other religions or don't have religion...it's not that hard to see.
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Old 06-27-2005, 07:02 PM   #56
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The truth is that everybody is human, and everybody is pretty much fucked as far as morality goes. None of us is better than the other as mac said earlier.
Of course the "religious" people are going to do wrong things too. We're all flawed and we're all going to to stupid things because we're all human.
If you dont believe in God then it doesnt mean you should criticise the beliefs of others. And why is it always christianity thats getting a boot in the ass in here?
Maybe its because Im in a shitty mood, or maybe Im just tired of having my faith blasted all the time, but geez. Not all christians are religious fanatics. Not all middle easterns are terrorists. Not all homosexuals are limp wristed and HIV infected.
Im going nowhere with this
I just need to stop
I sound almost as angry as melon
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Old 06-27-2005, 07:06 PM   #57
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sorry for my rant

Im having a rough evening
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Old 06-27-2005, 07:10 PM   #58
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Well if I was Muslim and being tried and the courtroom held the law of another religion, not even the law of the country, I would wonder how fair of a trial I'd be getting.
Muslim...fair trial.......bwahahaha!!!!!!!!

Do you know ANYTHING about Islamic countries ???
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Old 06-27-2005, 07:13 PM   #59
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Originally posted by macphisto23


How are the religious fanatics ruining what this country was built on? Why do you think they hate America? I m not a religious fanatic, but I do have high standards and morals, and so did this country when it was formed. "In the past 50 years we have seen huge increases in violent crimes, drug use, teenage pregnancy, and divorce. We have also seen God taken out of our schools, our courtrooms, and our workplaces. In 1973 it became legal to murder an unborn baby out of convenience for the mom, and to protect her "rights" without any discussion of the babies' rights. The sins of our nation rise as high as the heavens. Pornography, adultery, and homosexuality have become accepted ways to express our God-given sensual desires. Rape, murder, and rage have filled our streets, and our schools."

Are you so blind to not see that this country is falling in its morals and standards that it was built upon. GOD BLESS AMERICA!
In the past 50 years we've seen the "moral" hijack the religion while they spend billions building up nuclear weapons.

We've seen the "moral" support segregation, the outlawing of interratial marriage, and create 2nd class citizens.

So spare me the psedo history lesson.

The things you propose won't bring morality to this country. Morality doesn't come from a dollar bill or a plaque it comes from our parents, role models, and ourselves.
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Old 06-27-2005, 07:14 PM   #60
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Muslim...fair trial.......bwahahaha!!!!!!!!

Do you know ANYTHING about Islamic countries ???
I live in America, the issue is about America.

I'm not sure what the hell you are talking about?

Can you not compare apples to apples?
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