IT'S OFFICIAL #Wanna Go Outside?

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
See posts with no answers
I shut the camera off and set it down before taking him out. I figured he was gonna pull me down the porch steps so fast that if I was holding the camera, it would go flying. I also figured I'd better stop teasing him before he just decided to do a big screw you and pee on the rug. :laugh:
 
You should really consider buying cages bigger than that for those breeds (Labs, yes?)
Or maybe train them to be safely left alone at home while you are away for extended periods of time.
It's not good for dogs to be cramped like that for long periods of time. Our old beagle (about 15" at the shoulders) had a cage that size and it was perfect for her. She could have her toys on one side and her bedding on the other with room to move around between both.
 
We've heard that the general rule of thumb is that if they can turn around in their crates, the size is fine. I'd still like to get a bigger one for Buddy, because he's so unusually tall. He can still stand up in it, but there's really no room to spare.

We are slowly training Chewie so that she can be crate-free. She's pretty well-behaved, but our main worry is that she gets separation anxiety. Buddy is more difficult, as he will misbehave right in front of us. I think he's come to realize that no matter what punishment he gets, it won't be anything that will make his escapades not worth it...so he just goes for it. :tsk: I tend to believe his thought process is, "I'm gonna jump up on the counter, grab that sponge, and chew it up. What are they gonna do, yell at me? Big deal! They'll be showering me with love again in a half hour, tops!" :lol: The positive side is that he likes his crate. Even when we are all just out in the house, he will go and lay in it.

Buddy can't have bedding in there during the day because he chews it up. :mad: :lol:
 
Bonochick said:
We've heard that the general rule of thumb is that if they can turn around in their crates, the size is fine. I'd still like to get a bigger one for Buddy, because he's so unusually tall. He can still stand up in it, but there's really no room to spare.
Click to expand...


only just having enough space to stand up and turn around... gee lucky dog :|
someone please point out to me what part of that isn't cruel?

Buddy can't have bedding in there during the day because he chews it up. :mad: :lol:
Click to expand...

um, maybe because he's frustrated and bored and filled with pent up energy from being in a cage all day?

seriously, i can't see how this is acceptable treatment for animals.
and not just acceptable but SO acceptable that you can stick it up on the internet without any commentary back because no one else thinks that its totally fucking wrong to keep a dog of any size, let alone a large one, in a cage barely large enough to hold it???

seriously, if you don't have the space for a dog, don't get one.
if you can't afford to, don't have the time to or just don't want to train a dog properly but aren' prepared to then have it misbehanve, don't get one.

and teasing the dog before you let it out of its little jail... thats just priceless
 
Why is it that the first thing I was reminded of, when watching your video, was of the bears that live in cages in China and have their bile removed?

Thank you Digsy, I couldn't have put it better.

Keeping a dog of that size in a cage of that size is shameful. Actually, keeping a dog in a cage (to me) is disgusting.
 
Okay, here's what I think of it....

Yes I think that the cage is too small for the dog and to me keeping an animal in a cage is disgusting BUT the dog must learn before the dog romes around the house destroying everthing in its way.

BUT ALSO you guys have to be more nicer and more respecful to Bonochick. Make your comment and just say it nicely and leave. Bonochick just tried to be nice and show a video. Not to be attacked.
 
Last edited:
I know quite a few people who keep their dogs in a cage during the day while they are off at work. As far as I see it, it is common practice. :shrug:
 
i can't say i've ever heard of it which is why i'm so shocked by it.

and really, does the fact that its common practice make it right?
think about it for a second... a dog. in cage. that it can only just stand in.

whether other people do it or not isn't the point, its just cruel and wrong

seriously, you cage people are lucky my mother doesn't find you, she'd put you in cage to see how you like it.
 
I dont know much about dogs (cats are my forte) but I think things are very different in the U.S. unfortunately. Like for cats I know that declawing is actually banned/illegal in many countries like England, Australia, etc. It's absolutely disgusting. I wish it were banned in the U.S. too :sigh:
 
digsy said:
i can't say i've ever heard of it which is why i'm so shocked by it.

and really, does the fact that its common practice make it right?
think about it for a second... a dog. in cage. that it can only just stand in.

whether other people do it or not isn't the point, its just cruel and wrong

seriously, you cage people are lucky my mother doesn't find you, she'd put you in cage to see how you like it.
Click to expand...

But yes, it is cruel but it is how people live. Most people who have dogs I know have kept their dogs in cages at certain times when they're not around because they know there dogs will jump, piss and crap on stuff until the dog is well behaved. My dogs go to my dads office with him. When I had my first dog he was caged for everynight and sometimes during the day. Within a month he never since pissed and did everything around the house that was bad. My second dog didn't get caged as much as my first because he litterally learned from my first dog. Although he does piss around in my room during the night....:madwife:...

Also I've talked and heard from a lot of people that you should put like a radio or a CD right by there cages so they dont feel lonley... If you put in a Cd then make sure it is like a very very calm CD...
 
I honestly can't believe that this is acceptable practice, especially when there is agreement that it is cruel.

If you have a dog, you have a responsibility to look after it, teach it and be with it. That means giving up some of your time. How hard is it to get up an hour earlier and take the poor thing for a good long walk (it's also a great way to get exercise and put you in a great mood for the start of the day) and while your at it, train it to behave? During that time it will probably go to the toilet (which you can then clean up outside with little/no problem) and guess what, no problems at home. Given a good walk like this the dog will probably sleep most of the rest of the day. Give it some toys to play with, a nice big bone to gnaw on and maybe the odd treat and guess what? The dog will be happy and not touch your stuff!

Come home from work and do the same thing and hey, you don't need a cage, the dog will love you for it and your house doesn't get destroyed.

If you can't do that or aren't prepared to, then why have a dog?

I am sorry if my opinion has been stated in a way that appears offensive but to think that this is an acceptable way to train or look after an animal is, to me, abhorent and I am with Digsy's mother - anyone who does this should be put in a cage that is only big enough to stand up/turn around in and see what it feels like.
 
I watched the video a few days ago and I think BC's dogs have toys. She doesn't appear to keep them locked up all day long with nothing to do but stare at the bars of the cage.

Some dogs have separation anxiety and will tear the house apart when you leave because they're lonely.

I'm not arguing either way; I don't have a dog and I probably never will so I never really thought about the cage thing, other than a friend's Bichons LOVE their kennels when she leaves the house (and we know this because all she says is, "KENNELS!" and they run into them, grab a toy, and curl up, and she leaves Animal Planet on for them).
 
Schmeg said:


Some dogs have separation anxiety and will tear the house apart when you leave because they're lonely.
Click to expand...

Surely that's a problem that should be addressed rather than ignored or exacerbated by caging the dog up all day. :huh:
 
This was just supposed to be a fun thread. Sorry that some of you guys think that I am such a bitch. Congratulations, I am seriously crying as I type this. Overreacting? Yeah, maybe. But you know what? I love my dogs so damn much, and to hear you guys say how you apparently feel like I am such a shitty owner breaks my heart. I adore my dogs with all of my heart and do whatever I can to give them a good life. Thanks a fucking lot for making me feel like a complete asshole. I hope you're happy. In fact, considering history, I'm sure some of you are. Go high five each other.
 
meegannie said:


Surely that's a problem that should be addressed rather than ignored or exacerbated by caging the dog up all day. :huh:
Click to expand...

How would you address this? Drugs? Therapists? And if they can't get passed their anxiety, do you just put them "down"? Do you give up your whole life and job to try and beat your dog's anxiety? :huh:

As for not owning dogs if your only option is a "kennel" when you are away from the house...I would think that the U.S. would be run over with stray diseased dogs if Americans did not take them into their homes and care for them. Most people who keep their dogs in "kennels" when they are away from the house TRULY love their dogs - sometimes it is just not feasable to be at their side 24/7.
 
Weighing in as a veterinarian, these cages are appropriate for the dogs' sizes.

Here is an article on the pros/cons of crating (which I WILL use if I ever own a dog in the future):

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&A=1696

Crate Confinement: Is It a Good Choice for Your Dog?


The use of a crate with a dog is so common that we may automatically assume it’s a good tool for all dogs. Sometimes it is, and sometimes it isn’t.

Good Reasons to Use a Crate

1. Puppies need to learn the skill of resting calmly in a crate. This will never again be as easy for the dog to adapt to as it is in puppyhood. Even if you prefer not to use a crate routinely, seriously consider doing this conditioning for your pup. We can’t know what might be ahead in the years of that dog’s life that will make a crate an absolute necessity.

2. Dogs who will travel by plane or go for professional grooming are going to have to be able to tolerate a crate, so crate-training is a must for these canines.

3. Emergency evacuation in time of disaster, staying with your dog in travel or rental housing, being a guest in a home that has other animals or doesn’t like animals are all situations where you could suddenly need to use a crate.

4. Veterinary care and at-home nursing care require crate restriction for certain conditions. Some veterinarians have runs they can use with crate-phobic dogs in certain situations, but this isn’t always workable.

5. Few people can afford the damage a dog may do left free inside the house during the destructive chewing stage, or when the dog has a severe case of separation anxiety. Even if you are wealthy enough that damage isn’t an issue (and have no items of sentimental value that you couldn’t bear to have chewed), the dog is at risk of chewing something that will be fatal. A crate is the logical solution if the dog can tolerate it.

6. If your dog ever has to be re-homed to a new family or your family situation changes (including a kid going off to college) or you move, the dog may experience separation anxiety and badly need the support of a crate to get through it. At these times, you want the crate to feel like a safe place to the dog as a result of good foundation training in the past. In fact, you want this at any time you use a crate with your dog!

Reasons to Not Use a Crate

First, let’s note that you can still condition your dog to a crate, even if you’re not going to use it routinely. It is in your dog’s best interests to do so. If you’re not using the crate day-to-day, it’s easy to take this conditioning slowly and make it fun, fun, fun for your dog. So why not do it? A crate and the time to condition your dog for the ability to rest calmly inside it is good insurance for any dog. And remember—it’s fun!

There are times and reasons that may make you decide not to crate your dog, though. Here are some of those reasons:

1. The dog has a medical condition that is worsened when the dog can’t move around somewhat freely. Old dogs commonly have arthritis and some may stiffen up with close confinement. Inflamed joints on a dog of any age can react the same way. If the dog with such a condition needs to be prevented from running and jumping for medical reasons, you and your veterinarian may decide to use a small room instead of a crate or keep the dog with you on leash.

2. The dog has begun urinating or defecating in the crate. Not only is this messy, it’s bad for the dog’s skin and can damage the dog’s instincts to keep a clean sleeping-place. This dog needs to be out of the crate, perhaps in an exercise pen or a small room with a baby-gate across the doorway, until the dog re-establishes the habit of a clean bed and you solve any problem causing the dog not to be able to hold it during confinement.

3. The dog is afraid of the crate. This fear can be difficult to distinguish from separation anxiety, and one fear can lead to the other. Some of these dogs are difficult to manage, which is why we want to condition all puppies to be able to rest calmly in a crate. That foundation can make a huge difference later.

If you have a crate-phobic dog, you can recondition the dog’s reaction to the crate, but you don’t want to use the crate as a routine confinement method while doing the conditioning. That would undo the positive conditioning to the crate you’re trying to establish.

4. The time the dog needs to be left alone is too long for crate confinement. Eight hours is a good top limit for crate time, even if the dog is doing great in a crate. Why risk trouble?

For pups under 7 months of age, the rule of thumb is to crate no longer than the number of hours equaling the dog’s age in months plus one. When a dog has the experience of being crated too long and feeling trapped while needs go unmet, that is the perfect set up to begin fear of the crate, fear of being left alone, and other problems. So if you need to leave a dog longer than the dog can comfortably hold bladder and bowels or longer than 8 hours (whichever is less), use different confinement, such as a small room.

5. Is there any reason to crate this dog? If you have a dog who behaves wonderfully when left alone loose in the house, consider why you would crate. One reason might be that the dog is new to your home and you’re not sure what the dog might do in the next few days or weeks. Better crate than sorry.

Another reason is when your 4-month-old puppy is housetrained and you think the need for a crate is over. Chances are the permanent teeth will erupt in the next few months and serious chewing such as you’ve not seen in this pup before will start! So don’t stop crating at this age. Wait a bit to see how much of a chewer your pup is going to be. With large dogs, expect to use the crate to age 2 to 2 ½ years of age to get past the destructive chewing stage. It’s not for life!

6. Does your dog have a job to do in your home? If one reason you have a dog is to deter criminals from breaking into your house or harming your family, the dog can’t do this job confined to a crate. In such a case you’re going to want to choose a breed, bloodline, and individual dog with a high chance of growing into an adult dog who can be trusted loose in your house (some are not likely to develop this ability, so do your research!). You’re also going to need to do the right foundation work, including use of a crate to help management until the dog has learned to chew only the right items, to eliminate in the right place, etc.

Use Crates Thoughtfully

Dogs have at times had their lives saved by crates. They have also been able to handle stressful situations much more serenely because the crate has been built up in the dog’s experience as a safe place. The skill of resting calmly in a crate is a life skill that can benefit almost all dogs.

There is, however, a disturbing trend for people to overuse crates with their dogs. Being able to spend several hours a day moving around the house rather than spending that same time in a crate will benefit a dog in many ways.

The dog loose in the house moderately exercises the body, which for some dogs can be all the exercise they need. Small dogs and “busy” types like herding dogs will keep going and going and going indoors, happily getting a great deal of exercise.

Dogs don’t learn anything when crated, other than to accept crating—or to fear it, in certain unfortunate situations. To train your dog for the ability to be reliable free in your house, have the dog out of the crate and with you whenever you can supervise and teach. With maturity and training, the majority of dogs will learn to behave well in the house when you’re not watching as well as when you are.

Dogs need mental exercise as well as physical exercise, and being free in the house allows more mental stimulation, too. You can help determine how your dog will use this wonderful brainpower by providing toys and games (hide treats around the house when you’re going to be gone, for example) and working with your dog to establish safe play habits in the house.

Ideally, good crate practices start when you plan to acquire a dog, by getting a good crate (or two, or three!), deciding where to place it (bedroom, car, possibly family room), thinking through a good schedule for your dog, buying safe toys, and otherwise being well prepared to meet your new dog’s needs.

If the dog is a puppy, consider the background. A pet shop or other puppy-mill puppy will likely need alternate confinement for a while until clean instincts can kick in, so have a plan for that. Ask the breeder or foster home of any dog you’re adopting about that dog’s experience with crates. Be prepared for separation anxiety to kick in when you bring home a new dog. Most separation anxiety of this sort subsides with time and sensible, stable management.

A dog who has previously been fine with a crate can develop fear of it for various reasons, sometimes reasons we don’t understand. Do everything you can to keep the crate a happy place that feels safe to your dog. Be prepared to get the dog out of a crate, temporarily or permanently, if the dog develops a problem with it.

The crate is not the only way to confine a dog, and some dogs don’t need confinement for much of their lives other than being inside a house or a fence. The more we understand about why we’re using a crate with this dog at this time, or why we should avoid a crate with this dog at least for now, the better we can manage our dogs for health and happiness.
Click to expand...



Guide for size of crate:
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1089&S=0&EVetID=0

Housetraining Basics

1) Keep the dog in a safe place when you are not home or are asleep. A crate just large enough that he can lie down and stand fully erect is usually ideal for this. A small room with a baby-gate rather than a closed door will also work, provided this safe place is a place where the particular dog will not use the bathroom. You are trying to help the dog develop control.
Click to expand...

People are certainly allowed to have their opinions on the use of crates, but it is not cool to put other people down if that is what works for them. :|
 
bonosloveslave said:
Weighing in as a veterinarian, these cages are appropriate for the dogs' sizes.

Here is an article on the pros/cons of crating (which I WILL use if I ever own a dog in the future):

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&A=1696





Guide for size of crate:
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1089&S=0&EVetID=0



People are certainly allowed to have their opinions on the use of crates, but it is not cool to put other people down if that is what works for them. :|
Click to expand...

A lot of those guidelines are completely different to the recommendations here, which just reaffirms the theory that these practices are based on cultural differences. Vets here only recommend crating dogs for two hours at the very most per day.
 
I haven't watched the video. I live in Australia and have never seen, nor heard of, people keeping dogs in cages. This thread is the first I've heard of such a practice.

I guess its one of those cultural differences that feels perfectly acceptable and unquestioned in one country, and sounds appalling in another.

This is not an attack on you BC. From reading this thread it sounds as if the practice of caging dogs is common knowledge in the USA.

When people go to work here, dogs are usually locked in the backyard with a shelter provided. The dog comes and goes as he/she pleases. Small dogs can use a cat door in the back door of the house to go into the back yard and back into the house.

People who live in flats/apartments don't have dogs, on the whole.
 
Beli...

If people used the terms "shameful" and "cruel and wrong" after you posted a video with you and your children (knowing that Kat does not have children...I am sure loves her dogs as children), you would see it as an attack. :shrug:

Cultural differences....
 
It depends what I was doing to my children. There was a thread here a while ago about leashes for small children which seem to be acceptable here in Aus, and not in the USA. Tis a cultural difference.

The caged dog issue is heavier though. And complicated. Fish in a tank are acceptable, but dogs in a cage are not acceptable. I don't know why. I'm just pondering.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

gvox
It's Official: 19999
Replies
17
Views
2K
Hewson
Hewson
cobl04
Kiss the Future documentary
Replies
11
Views
3K
MrsSpringsteen
MrsSpringsteen
Headache in a Suitcase
  • Sticky
U2 in Vegas - Tips for booking hotels, flights and other Vegasy type things.
20 21 22
Replies
642
Views
32K
Headache in a Suitcase
Headache in a Suitcase
P
30th Anniversary of Achtung Baby - Documentary
Replies
0
Views
4K
Paulo Vetri
P
KhanadaRhodes
  • Sticky
Guntersville, Alabama Superthread
Replies
3
Views
2K
bono_man2002
bono_man2002

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom