Originally posted by foray:
To be honest, melon's posts are depressing. Nothing gets through to him. He wants people to think outside the box, but when others question him, he doesn't really listen, if you know what I mean.
First off, let me say I am saying what I'm saying in the spirit of clearing up misunderstanding, not bitterness. Plus, I'm not stupid. I know who you are in the "Addenda" thread.
In terms of my belief system, I am a very rational person, with idealistic undertones. My rationalism seems to be more overbearing on Interference, quite simply because my writing style is more structured by nature. I'm sure most people write much more seriously than they really are in person.
Secondly, in regards to thinking out of the box, I'm open to it, but only when someone has sufficiently posted logical arguments to my liking. This does happen to me fairly regularly on the forum, contrary to forum lore, with my last opinion shift being in regards to the war on terrorism, which I was incredibly apprehensive about at first, but, in analysis of others' arguments, I realized that war, perhaps, might be the lesser of all evils for the Americans, who need defense from terrorist attacks, and the Afghanis, who have been held hostage by a government they don't support. Of course, I can only hope that the U.S. doesn't repeat it's historical course of action by installing a repressive puppet government in place, but we shall see when the time comes. But I digress...you asked about me thinking out of my own box, and I do, even though I don't generally make a great fanfare about it.
However, I think you are thinking about religion more than anything, and I think you might be taking on more than you can chew. You are talking to an incredibly devout, liberal Catholic, and that, most certainly, will not change. Rationalism and science are both encouraged within the faith, and fundamentalism is outright condemned. I am incredibly opinionated regarding religion, and, admittedly, my stances on religion are not likely to budge any more than 80s' stances are to budge.
I really feel like he does it just to stir things up and that he himself is not willing to change himself. The more fundamental thing is that he prizes intellectualism too much over simple faith. He says that they both go hand in hand but judging from his attitude it doesn't seem so.
I will be honest. I'm incredibly angered over organized religion. There is my intellectual side, which rationalizes it all out in neat little patterns that I really believe. There is also my more human side, which is incredibly angry at the mass mentality regarding Christianity. Then I only get more angry when I hear overly complex arguments that border on ridiculousness to support every last footnote in the Bible as true. My intellectual side respects others' beliefs as equally valid, but my human side just gets angry. Then, to see these same complex pseudoscience arguments being used in regards to suppressing and hating people at the government level just infuriates me beyond imagination, and it's almost implicit that all Christians
must be this hysterical as a prerequisite for "faith."
Do you know how many very smart people I know who abandoned their religion pretty much on this premise that they didn't fit the "prerequisite"? It surely doesn't help that most depictions of Christians are the most hysterical depictions imaginable. What is my exposure to Christians in public? The cult groups that smile almost incessantly like they've been programmed, the Calvinist preachers that tells everyone they are going to hell, those who write into the newspapers telling people who believe in evolution will go to hell, because "the true Word of God," the King James Bible, says to the contrary, and the "wise Catholic housewife," who is contented that there are no female priests on the premise that "priests were always male" (even though there were female priests in the first 500 years of the church).
So, honestly, as comfortable as I am in my beliefs, I still get angry at what I see as the overall consensus of Christianity, which generally looks at me with disdain. Perhaps I should not concern myself with others, but, for example, when man is considered evil on the basis of the "sin of Adam and Eve" (original sin), which both I and my religion, Catholicism, sees as a myth, I cannot help but get turned off and angry, especially since faulty original sin traditions are used to condemn people like me even within my own religion.
You may see what I say regarding religion as "angry" (which is likely true), but, in regards to "weak in faith," I, most assuredly, tell you that that is not the case. In fact, my intentions are quite different than you'd imagine. I am trying to show, perhaps by my words, that one need not throw away all sense of intellect, reason, and scientific knowledge to believe in Christ. Whether you've noticed it or not, quite a lot of "intellectual" types are either agnostic or atheist, which I believe is due to the fact that they cannot get past those implicit "prerequisites," and, for some reason or another, never took the time to find alternate modes of faith. It is these "alternate modes" that I offer. People are free to take it or leave it.
Maybe it would do him good to stay away from the forum for a while; cos either it's us who cause him to have this attitude or it's his own doing. It is probably foolish of me to be affected by someone anonymous in an internet forum, but I do realise that behind melon is a real person and I'm genuinely concerned about where he is going spiritually and his walk with God. The truth will set you free, of course, but faith also sets you free, does melon not see that? Sigh, I am seriously rambling now though it's good that I get this out of my system.
I do appreciate your concern, but I cannot help but think this is a case of misunderstanding, as, most assuredly, I am not this harsh and rigid sounding in person. To be honest, I am really kind of a silly guy, who finds people with both humor and intellect to be the sexiest people in this world. I try and be this way, but, quite often, I do come off as way too serious than I really am.
This was not meant to start a melon bashing thread.
I can only wonder why this post was done here of all places?
Anyway, just so you know, I don't mind criticism as long as it is done in a respectful tone, which is exactly what you did here. So, kudos...
Melon
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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
