Would you love U2 if....

[indra]

I see many posts that proclaim U2's relevance by pointing out that they have great sales, sell out arenas in minutes, and get good reviews and various awards (ie, Grammeys).

But suppose for a moment, that was not the case. Suppose that after Rattle & Hum that U2 was dropped from it's label and they had a tough time finding a new label...perhaps even putting their next album out under their own label with only minimal distribution. Eventually they get signed to a small, independent label (truly independent, not the "indie" side of a major, so they still wouldn't have access to the big distribution systems) and continue to put out albums, but their sales aren't all that great. Many people not in their home country have to import their albums because there are only distributors in a few of the larger markets (well, large for them).That's right folks -- their cds aren't available in every store which has ever sold a cd. You have to really look for them and often order. Plus they tend to be more expensive (few stores use unknown bands cd's as loss leaders).

Now because they also don't have the promotion budget of a major label behind them promos of their album don't go to as many of the big publications and other sources for reviews, so reviews, although often pretty good, don't really get seen by that many people. And even when they do get reviewed by the "big boys" it's just a small review (after all they don't have the clout to rate a big article...and there will be few, if any, advertising dollars spent on them).

Selling out arenas in minutes? Are you kidding? They are now playing relatively small clubs and even bars...crowds of maybe a few hundred to a couple of thousand (if they are lucky). And even these shows -- which are pretty bare bones, by the way -- rarely sell out (and never in minutes).

But the music they put out in this scenario is the same as what they have actually put out in the same timeframe.

Now given the above situation would they still be relevant? Would you still be a fan? Would you still want to go see them play live (remember no flash...just the band). Or be one in the first place? Do you think you would have lost track of them (if you were a fan before they got dropped)? Or would you ever have heard of them (for those post R&H fans)?

I realize it's hard to un-ring a bell, but give it a try. What if's are kinda fun.

 

[the tourist]

I like U2 of the 80s more, so I'd still go see them.

 

[MrBrau1]

Would you ask the same of a Replacements fan? Say the Mats got HUGE after TIM, and every record after sounded the same, they were selling millions and selling out arenas. What if after "OK Computer", Radiohead's "Kid A" sold 15 million worldwide? Would their fans say the band "sucked", they "sold out" or the usual indie response to successful bands. Someone who said they wouldn't like them would be guilty of being more in love with a "scene" than the music. The ultimate sin in my eyes. Being a hipster.

How many bands have lost early fans who like the "cool" factor of knowing an unknown band? I call them hipster douch bag fakes.

As for your original question, I'd still love U2. They make good records.

 

[Flying FuManchu]

I would think I would remain a fan considering I even buy/ listen/ follow stuff of theirs that I consider crap or dis-like such as Bono's collaboration with Wyclef, Electrical Storm, The Hands that Built America, etc. U2 hooked me with Joshua Tree. Unless I really dislike a band's output over a two album span, then I tend to continue to buy new stuff from a band when it comes out.

 

[Miggy D]

I wouldn't be a fan, because I never would have been introduced to them by the Beautiful Day video I saw on VH1 in 2000!

 

[indra]

Would you ask the same of a Replacements fan? Say the Mats got HUGE after TIM, and every record after sounded the same, they were selling millions and selling out arenas. What if after "OK Computer", Radiohead's "Kid A" sold 15 million worldwide? Would their fans say the band "sucked", they "sold out" or the usual indie response to successful bands. Someone who said they wouldn't like them would be guilty of being more in love with a "scene" than the music. The ultimate sin in my eyes. Being a hipster.

How many bands have lost early fans who like the "cool" factor of knowing an unknown band? I call them hipster douch bag fakes.

As for your original question, I'd still love U2. They make good records.

So you are saying every U2 album sounds the same, Mr Brau? (since you want to do an analogy here) Tsk, tsk. You're gonna get flamed.

What I was hoping to get to is exactly what makes a band relevant -- the music or the trappings.

But I also wanted to know how many here, if they really thought about it, would still care enough about a band to follow them even if they had essentially slid out of sight. Even if they still made fabulous music.

 

[indra]

I wouldn't be a fan, because I never would have been introduced to them by the Beautiful Day video I saw on VH1 in 2000!

OK, in your case, what if's are scary!

 

[Axver]

I'm not sure if I would have encountered U2 - my main education was on the eighties hits but the Best Ofs and ATYCLB are what set up my fanaticism - but if I had, I definitely would have followed them. I don't like these huge, fancy tours - it's about the music, not the lighting and visuals.

 

[indra]

I would think I would remain a fan considering I even buy/ listen/ follow stuff of theirs that I consider crap or dis-like such as Bono's collaboration with Wyclef, Electrical Storm, The Hands that Built America, etc. U2 hooked me with Joshua Tree. Unless I really dislike a band's output over a two album span, then I tend to continue to buy new stuff from a band when it comes out.

Whoa! You really are a rabid fan. I utterly adore Steve Kilbey and there is stuff of his I still don't have. ...then again, much of that is out of print and if I'm going to buy stuff, I want the profit going to the artist.

 

[david]

Weird scenerio.

I mean if they got dropped after Rattle and Hum would they have been so discouraged that Achtung Baby would have never been released?

And if they still made Achtung Baby would it have gone unnoticed? I doubt it, it's such a good album that I am sure U2 would have had a massive underground college rock following, sort of like they did when Boy and October came out. Maybe?

It is very very possible for bands to make excellent music while not being on a major label and still garning a lot of acclaim and having a very large fanbase.

Fugazi did it for years, they stayed relevant, inventive and vital. They released their albums on their own label, they managed to distribute their albums to record shops and kept the price tag for their albums around the ten dollar mark. Fugazi even managed to tour clubs and never charged more than like 8 bucks for a ticket.

As a matter of fact their 1992 album In On The Kill Taker suposedly sold around 300,000 copies when it originall came out.

And what about Wilco? They were dropped from their label prior to the release of Yankee Hotel Foxtrot because their label lost faith them in them.

What did they do? They found another label and released a critically acclaimed album.

But still, it's just so hard to imagine 90's U2 operating on such a small scale. They made big music that just couldn't be contained on a small level.

 

[Flying FuManchu]

I actually bought the a CD by "The Call" which had Bono singing prominent back up vocals... bought the single or downloaded can't remember that gospel artists/ R. Kelly/ Bono song even though I think Bono sounds soso on it. I'm not a rabid fan like some on this board but once a band or artist hooks me, I tend to keep listening.

I always am impressed with indie music lovers in terms of the "amount" of music" they listen to and the amount of time they put into it. I just don't have that kind of gumption to do that. I have a hard enough time keeping up with the classic rock that I've been listening to and buying up.

 

[david]

I think a realistic scenerio would have U2 being dropped after the album about God aka October, as Bono put it.

But that would only happen in today's music world according to Bono.

 

[Flying FuManchu]

Thought about the question again... its hard to say whether or not U2 would be my number 1/ favorite band if they weren't as relevant/ big. I mean part of U2's appeal to me outiside of the music is that they are a "big" band that gets airplay and reaches out to as big of an audience as they can. Its that attitude/ philosophy that appeals to me. Sort of the anti-anti-establishment philosphy... sort of the anti-indie mindset. If U2 were to not have that... I know, I would still listen to them, but would they be my favorite I dunno.

 

[beegee]

omg indra, that whole scenario would be a dream come true for me.

it's funny that you mention the smaller clubs and bars. my brother just asked me the other day if i remember being at one of the shows on the joshua tree tour, going off to anyone who would listen about how i can't wait until U2 isn't popular anymore so i can see them playing lounge shows to crowds of fifty.

instead, i am getting ready to stand outside of an arena for twelve hours, just hoping to catch a glimpse. but i'd still rather see the lounge show...

 

[Yahweh]

That is what I want to know I really want to ask the people that think U2 have done something bad in recent years 2 simple questions.

1. Would you be listening to U2 right now if you didnt hear about them on radio or TV?

2. Do you think this forum would exist if it wasnt for the promotion that U2 and their record label put into the material?

If you answer yes to either one of these questions I would like to know a valid reason why you would say yes, because I am sure almost 100 percent of you heard U2 for the first time either on radio or TV, or were recommended to them by somebody that did.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

1. Would you be listening to U2 right now if you didnt hear about them on radio or TV?

This one I honestly am not sure about. The first time I ever heard any U2 music was on the radio. And while some of the other artists I like aren't exactly at U2's level, I still heard about them through radio and television. So I'm really not sure. It might be possible if I heard about them from a friend who'd loved them upon hearing them on the radio or on TV or something, but if not that...yeah, I don't know.

Originally posted by Yahweh
2. Do you think this forum would exist if it wasnt for the promotion that U2 and their record label put into the material?

Possibly. After all, there are bands whose record labels don't do much to support their exposure, and the band does what they can, but depending on the circumstances, it may not be enough, and yet there's still fan sites for them. If a person really loves a band and wants to connect with others who love them, too, they'll do what they can to support them, including making forums, regardless of whether or not the band/record label are heavy promoters.

As for the original question in this thread-yes, I'd still love them. I like other artists that:

-aren't overly well-known here in this country
-play small clubs
-generally get good reviews, but whose CDs aren't exactly flying off the shelves (matter of fact, in some stores, I can't even find anything by a lot of these artists, because the stores just don't put their stuff in stock)
-might get their best-known song played on the radio every once in a while, but that's about it (unless I'm listening to some really cool station that would happen to play their lesser-known stuff, too)

So I don't see why it would be any different for me if U2 were in this same situation. And as for whether or not they'd still be relevant-if they're making music that identifies with my life, that's good enough for me.

Any artists I like, I like simply because they make music I enjoy, and they write songs that mean something to me. How popular they may or may not be isn't important for me-I don't care if everyone else in the world loves them along with me, or if I'm the only person in the world who loves them. They've still got something about them that makes me happy, I still love their music, so everything else is irrelevant.

Angela

 

[indra]

I think a realistic scenerio would have U2 being dropped after the album about God aka October, as Bono put it.

But that would only happen in today's music world according to Bono.

That's true...or even after The Unforgettable Fire (since I recall that was considered not up to par with War when it was released). But it is not really realistic to have them slide so far post JT. But this is just an exercise to make people think a bit (and for fun).

Originally posted by bonosgirl84
omg indra, that whole scenario would be a dream come true for me.

it's funny that you mention the smaller clubs and bars. my brother just asked me the other day if i remember being at one of the shows on the joshua tree tour, going off to anyone who would listen about how i can't wait until U2 isn't popular anymore so i can see them playing lounge shows to crowds of fifty.

instead, i am getting ready to stand outside of an arena for twelve hours, just hoping to catch a glimpse. but i'd still rather see the lounge show...

I know! I would utterly love seeing them in a club. It would really suck for them (the scenario I envisioned), but it would be great for me (concert wise anyway). What really irks me is that my sister did. She saw them in 1981 or 82 at a club, and she's never really been a major fan of theirs, whereas when I was finally able to muster the cash and transportation to see them...they were playing huge venues that freak me out. So unless the bottom drops out, I'm never gonna see them live.

 

[Saracene]

I can't really imagine Bono and Co. content to slug it out in near-obscurity for a whole decade or more... surely their giant band ego wouldn't stand that?

I guess I'd still love the music, but without their huge success a whole big chunk of what makes U2 mythology great would be gone - no ZooTV, no POPMart, no Elevation. To think of them without it all is almost like thinking about a completely different band. And apart from the novelty of seeing the band really upclose, I personally have zero interest in seeing U2 in a tiny club. They and their music are meant for big stage and huge crowd sing-alongs like no other IMO.

 

[sallycinnamon78]

That's a very good question... but at the same time, I can't help thinking that the answer is along the lines of "if your granny had balls, she'd be your grandad."

In other words, what is, is. We can try and imagine how much we would appreciate U2 if they hadn't become world famous, but really, I think it's impossible to say.

There are so many variable factors... like if the band had done so-and-so differently, what would the most likely result have been, how would they have adapted, what would they have done next, would their music still be the same, etc. etc. etc. It would be like trying to connect a million different dimensions at once. My brain can barely cope with 3 or 4! :

I know this is a speculative scenario but I just do not feel qualified to judge.

 

[U2girl]

My version of relevance is different: I'm talking about what happened with ATYCLB's songs after 9/11, what happened with One and the AIDS epidemic... when people embrace the songs beyond the usual song-listener ratio.

It's not about sales or Grammys or big venues. (though in this ageist society and music charts in US, I admire anyone over 30, let alone 40 making it)
I couldn't care less in what venues U2 plays - I first heard them on my brother's stereo and saw the Joshua Tree videos on MTV, so yes, I would still know about them even if they dropped off the radar after Rattle and Hum. For all I care, they could play live by themselves, no fancy visuals.
When I first heard U2, I had no idea about their popularity, the Grammys, the big venues they played, the huge tours - I simply liked the music.

 

[indra]

"if your granny had balls, she'd be your grandad."

I have to remember that one!

 

[bedouin fire]

some bands that i liked in the 80's, and were somehow relevant, at least in the bunch of my teenager friends, like the mission, sisters of mercy, the cult (yeah, the goth scene i know), the jesus and mary chain, the young gods and so on, loose all their relevance or broke in the 90's. nevertheless, i followed them until a late stage in that decade and bought most of the albuns that they released then. ok, i know that some of them are still around making something, like the mission, but i don't care for them anymore.
i staerted my u2 fanatism also in the 80's, and by the r&h era i was already convinced that they were the best band that ever walked the earth, therefore i am sure that i would follow them for a long time no matter if they were not on the top of the wave.

 

[Mullen4Prez]

I was born a fan and will die a fan.

 

[ZeroDude]

Well if that was the case we'd be missin alot of other bands aswell Hypothetical situations need not be pondered, Radiohead qould be missing in action, you have to consider the future said past would have allowed for

 

[bedouin fire]

and btw, congrats for this nice thread that points out an intelligent discussion about u2.

i was getting really tired of the "my favourite songs are better than yours, your favourite song is not on my top 14, and my favourite tour kicked much more ass than yours..." threads.

 

[stray dog]

with u2, the cake is the music, the frosting is their success..

 

[miss becky]

Hell yes. I am a fan because I love U2's music, not because they can sell out an arena in minutes, or because Bono is pals with the Pope. And in fact, I think if I had to actively work to get that new music in my hands rather than simply stroll into the nearest music store, I would love the music even more.

Interesting scenario, Indra!

 

[stray dog]

I loved U2 when they were only U2...there was a bonding with their music long before their success...

 

[Pero]

Honestly, i wouldn't be a fan because i was born on 1989 and i couldn't hear about them.
I would probably be RHCP fan

 

[sallycinnamon78]

We could, I guess, make things even more complex by assuming a similar situation for REM... I wonder how they would compare...

still sticking to my granny point though!