Who Will Ultimately Pay From Our Outrage?

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sallycinnamon78 said:

Well diamond, I'm most offended that you didn't like my posts. as well. Bah humbug.

Just kidding.
:laugh: ;)

Added later: oops! There goes my being rational! :lol: :laugh:

I liked them. I thought you were making too many excuses for them, but I still liked them.
 
cardosino said:


I liked them. I thought you were making too many excuses for them, but I still liked them.
Well, you know how it is... it's very difficult to please all my fans all of the time. :lmao:
 
sallycinnamon78 said:

Well diamond, I'm most offended that you didn't like my posts. as well. Bah humbug.

Just kidding.
:laugh: ;)

Added later: oops! There goes my being rational! :lol: :laugh:
Hey, hon..I went back and reread the thread and added your name immediately.
Your post trumped everybody elses.:)

The cow's arse line had me smilin..
good job you.

db9
 
Re: Re: Re: Who Will Ultimately Pay From Our Outrage?

starsgoblue said:
I think it's safe to say it's common knowledge that Universal and PM have always been on the prowl for things like that. For example, their careful monitoring of board to ensure U2's lyrics and such aren't even posted.

Just for clarity's sake, by all evidence, PM had nothing to do with the lyrics situation, for good or bad. I ran the lyrics section of atu2.com and the main correspondence was just with lawyers are Universal. They were asked to get in touch with Principle to get it cleared up, never did, and generally behaved like goobers who didn't quite know what they were doing. As with U2.com and Ticketbastard, it's an orgainization that U2 has decided to associate themselves with, running around fucking up relations between fans and the band. In all the emails I saw, none were from Principle.
 
:up: :up: to everything you have said Jamila - you are the voice of reason! :wink:

Could someone please explain to me why people call these seats 'nosebleeds'?
 
susanp6 said:
[B
Could someone please explain to me why people call these seats 'nosebleeds'? [/B]

High altitude tends to give people nosebleeds. "Nosebleed" seats are way up high in the arena, and very far from the stage.


It's either that or you get a little packet of cocaine when you buy those seats.... ;)
 
indra said:


High altitude tends to give people nosebleeds. "Nosebleed" seats are way up high in the arena, and very far from the stage.


It's either that or you get a little packet of cocaine when you buy those seats.... ;)

ha! They'd be the most popular tix in the arena if that was so!
 
I think if no one complained nothing would change.

Have there been people overly agitated about the ticketing fiasco -- yep. But I find Jamilia's assertion that "U2's living legacy and credibility will take a direct hit from all of our outrage" waaaayy over the top.

Both are extreme reactions.
 
I'm still waiting on people's response on, "What would be the "effective" manner in which fans could protest the mediocre ticket service/ membership 'scam'." I mean what is the rational and mature way to handle things? From what I understand, some fans did the mature thing which was fax, phone, and e-mail PM, Ticketmaster, etc. The responses from those organizations were typical ignorance, arrogance, and indifference. IMO, that is a sign to some fans that some people in the know are willing to sweep things under the rug or wait problems out.

Case in point... the whole issue with lyrics and guitar tabs on U2 fan sites (no problem for nearly a decade or more) yet SEVERAL months ago, U2's business partner/ publishing company Universal forced sites to remove that material under threat of lawsuits. Fans did not display the type of anger and annoyance that we've seen in recent days. Instead there was a quiet relatively calm petition from regular fans and fan sites to be able to allow websites to post lyrics and tabs like before. It's been several months and NOTHING has changed since the cease and desist threat that purged websites. THAT is an example of what many angry fans fear. U2 either being ignorant of the "problem" or waiting it out.

IF fans, IMO, did not do what they did, they would have lost an effective tool that the media provides, which is exposure b/c the media doesn't always wait for a story.

ALSO, fans do not have the time to wait nor the desire to wait several months for a resolution, considering the tour starts in a month and a half. If we apply the timetable used by PM/ U2 (in relation to the lyrics issue), to the ticket issue- - - the concert would already be in full gear with many of the shows already done and over with. This leaves the fans who wanted to go to those shows out in the cold. LOL. That definitely would not be smart at all on the side of the fans.

I will give U2 apologists this, though. Some of the complaints on the side of the "whiners" were extreme and the whole giving up their U2 record collections or the "fuck" Bono movement was either hillariously stupid or just sad but I don't mind the "whiner" movement and I hope it succeeds in bringing about change within in the U2 machine.
 
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sallycinnamon78 said:
I do understand that many of us are feeling upset at what happened, plot180, and I don't mean to disrespect your (or anyone else's) emotional involvement with the band and their music.

Still, I can't help feeling that much of the yapping about being "betrayed by U2" is largely melodrama on the part of overidealistic fans. Like you, I loved the band not just for the music, but also because they seemed to be decent, kind people with integrity. I still feel that way.

I don't know if this is a correct analysis or not, but bear with me: I find that U2, unlike many other groups, have deliberately made a great effort to keep fans happy over the years... I think that this inspires a feeling of personal involvement with the band. We appear to have forgotten that U2 has become a huge organisation, in business terms, with a large number of people working for them. Like it or not, the band are much more distant from us than they were many years ago - I think that this is somewhat inevitable. They are now one of the biggest bands on the planet and have been for a fair while. This is bound to put barriers between U2 and ourselves. It's what happens when a band gets ridficulously popular - there's no way on earth they can please all of us, all of the time.

The presale sucked shit from a dead cow's arse (please pardon the beauty of that charming image), as we've all said a million times. Ticketbastard buggered up and U2.com were fairly useless. I think U2's only real fault here lies in their decision to allow sales to be managed through Ticketbastard and their official website - both of which seem to be fairly lousy.

I do agree with the people who say that U2.com itself tarnishes the image of the band, by being slow to announce official news, and ballsing up membership fees, etc. In my opinion, the band ought to get the site managed by a more capable organisation.

The point of this manuscript is that we expect too much of U2. Many people have suggested that they are deliberately "screwing fans over". I disagree. I say they're human, and they make mistakes - using Ticketbastard was one of them (a fairly large one I admit). It sucks, but as far as I can see, the reality is that we expect U2 to bend over backwards to give us what we want at all times - which is unrealistic and unfair.

A true voice of reason, sallycinnamon78. I could not have said it better myself. People may call us U2 apologists, but I couldn't care less. Yes, the buck stops with them, but having run a growing company for over 12 years, I can completely sympathize with having to delegate the business functions to people that you want to, and need to trust, but let you down and tarnish your image. I'm sure they feel like hell right now.
 
Undue and overbloated controversy - especially when it is promulgated by your fanbase - DOES ultimately tarnish the reputation of someone famous.

It goes down in your band's biography, especially when it occurs nearer the ending of your career than at the beginning. It can appear as an unraveling of your BRILLIANT LEGACY AND CAREER.

It is definitely not something any band that has spent nearly 30 years trying to create original and uplifting music wants trailing them around. :sad:

So to diminish the importance of this negativity expressed by us toward the band and those surrounding them is JUST PLAIN SELFISH for us and shows little concern for U2.

We will all settle down and either finally accept reality and continue supporting U2 or we will decide to walk on to another group which fits our needs better.

But the mess that some of us have created for U2 will continue to haunt them, especially on the eve of their induction in the R&R Hall of Fame.:tsk:

For us not to accept our complicity in the damaging of U2's Legacy is a continuation of our selfishness and lack of ability to see the larger picture.

Many of us are only concerned with what we want and not on what is best for U2 in the long run.

I did not start this thread to be liked. I started this thread to be a voice of outrage in a sea of selfishness.

I am GRATEFUL TO U2 for everything that they have given the world over their 25 years in the music industry. I will always remember the MANY GIFTS THAT THEY HAVE GIVEN US over the years.:up:

I will speak only Good of them because that is all that they have tried to give us.

It is sad that many of us have no sense of continuity or gratefulness to this wonderful group of men and musicians.

GRACE FINDS BEAUTY IN EVERYTHING....:wink:
 
if anything would change it is that U2 would figrue out that trying to give your most loyal fans priority and therefore making sure the relations between band & hardcore fans stays good is something that could (has) backfire(d)
and therefore they might decide not to try another priotity deal in the future to prevent possible mishaps

so the hardcore fans are the ones who wil ultimately pay (IMO) if anyone will pay
 
Surely the entire problem lies with the fact that ALL tickets should have been made available for pre-sale people to choose from.

If you're paying extra to buy early, then you should get a choice of where you want to sit or stand, and not have a problem getting them.

If it was clear you could do that then I would have gladly paid my membership and bought tickets early.

As it was, there were no guarantees whatsoever, so I took my chances with the public sale, and thankfully got exactly what I wanted.

The people who will pay are the fans who've been forced into buying second rates seats in panic, those who've been scalped by the touts, and U2 having their reputation tarnished by the complete mess that was the ticketmaster system
 
Jamila said:


But the mess that some of us have created for U2 will continue to haunt them, especially on the eve of their induction in the R&R Hall of Fame.:tsk:

For us not to accept our complicity in the damaging of U2's Legacy is a continuation of our selfishness and lack of ability to see the larger picture.

Many of us are only concerned with what we want and not on what is best for U2 in the long run.


I cannot believe you're laying the blame of this mess on U2 fans. LOL. I hope you're not trying to do that and I'm reading it wrong. THE POINT OF ORIGIN FOR THIS PROBLEM IS U2. You're making it sound like it's a manufactured problem. It is not. If it was, then ticketmaster/ u2.com would not being going through the process of giving some people who were screwed GA tickets as we speak.

In the end, U2 could have made the pre-sale as relatively painless as possible as well as made it work where people didn't get screwed. However, that was never the case.

Also, I really doubt this pre-sale problem and the fan outrage will hurt U2's legacy. LOL. they have IMO reached legend status. Look at the Stones.... they're always ripped on for their age, money hungry ways, etc. Yet even with all of that in mind, they are treated as legends.
 
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I still love the band and its music but do hold the four members of U2 and Paul McGuinness responsible for what happened. They run Principle Management. U2 is not some baby band or artist like Britney Spears or Jessica Simpson who just shows up where people tell them to go and have no concept of the wheeling and dealing side of the music business, decisions made within PM are made by unanimous agreement between the five Principle partners. They had to have known who all they were dealing with with the presale, how many tickets would be released and so forth.

It's been nearly a week and it seems like some kind of amends is being attempted, but Ticketmaster Europe was able to make a statement to users within hours of that fiasco, why did it take the band so long?

I do not think by saying this situation sucked and many long-time fans of the band were majorly put out is disrespectful to the band and its legacy. We all joined the fan club to show our love and respect for the band, the least the U2 organization could do is show the same to us in return.
 
I'm sorry, I still love the band and want very badly to believe this whole screw-up was mainly due to Tickebastard and the people running U2.com, but the fact is U2 either chose to get rid of a presale service that most people seemed to be happy with and went with a company (Ticketmaster) that is universally known to be one of the biggest villains in the music/concert biz - or they were not paying proper attention when these kinds of decisions where made in their behalf. Complaining to PM, U2.com and Ticketmaster is all fine and good, but do you think any of those parties would be in a big hurry to tell the band just how badly they screwed up? Going to the media was simply a way for fans to make sure the band really knew what was going on, and in a timely manner.
 
cardosino said:


Neither U2.com or TM is well equipped or caring enough to implement a fair and equitable system, the money is there to do it if they wanted, they just don't care enough to.

The people running TM outlets have buckets of tickets printed out before they "go on sale", but we don't get them.

Who will pay for the outrage ? No one will.

The fans will continue to gobble up tickets and cheaply produced merchandise at the shows. Personally, I don't need any more U2 memorabilia to gather dust, or another T-shirt which costs less than one dollar to make which will sell for more than $20 at the shows.

Want to send U2 a message ? Don't buy tickets, don't buy merchandise, don't buy their product.

AS for me, these will be my last U2 shows, I'll still buy the DVD and the recorded products, but it's just too much hassle, too expensive and too disillusioning to maintain the same levels of fanaticism as years gone by .

It's been a nice run, but I have better things to do with my time and money at this point in my life. I spent more on tickets over the last 2 days than I gave in Tsunami relief donations, and that's just sad. I'm off to make a matching donation right now, I figure some good has to come of this.

Next time on the 3rd leg, I'll see how much tickets are, determine which show(s) I'd have gone to, and give the money to someone who actually needs it, not TM, not ClearChannel, not U2.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Who Will Ultimately Pay From Our Outrage?

plot180 said:


Just for clarity's sake, by all evidence, PM had nothing to do with the lyrics situation, for good or bad. I ran the lyrics section of atu2.com and the main correspondence was just with lawyers are Universal. They were asked to get in touch with Principle to get it cleared up, never did, and generally behaved like goobers who didn't quite know what they were doing. As with U2.com and Ticketbastard, it's an orgainization that U2 has decided to associate themselves with, running around fucking up relations between fans and the band. In all the emails I saw, none were from Principle.

This is PRECISELY the sort of thing I am talking about when I say that the band have become so huge that we, as fans, have had no choice but to become more distant from them. you said it yourself: "it's an orgainization that U2 has decided to associate themselves with, running around fucking up relations between fans and the band." A succinct, articulate, and extremely accurate way of putting it.
 
Jamila said:
Undue and overbloated controversy - especially when it is promulgated by your fanbase - DOES ultimately tarnish the reputation of someone famous.

It goes down in your band's biography, especially when it occurs nearer the ending of your career than at the beginning. It can appear as an unraveling of your BRILLIANT LEGACY AND CAREER.

It is definitely not something any band that has spent nearly 30 years trying to create original and uplifting music wants trailing them around. :sad:

So to diminish the importance of this negativity expressed by us toward the band and those surrounding them is JUST PLAIN SELFISH for us and shows little concern for U2.

We will all settle down and either finally accept reality and continue supporting U2 or we will decide to walk on to another group which fits our needs better.

But the mess that some of us have created for U2 will continue to haunt them, especially on the eve of their induction in the R&R Hall of Fame.:tsk:

For us not to accept our complicity in the damaging of U2's Legacy is a continuation of our selfishness and lack of ability to see the larger picture.

Many of us are only concerned with what we want and not on what is best for U2 in the long run.

I did not start this thread to be liked. I started this thread to be a voice of outrage in a sea of selfishness.

I am GRATEFUL TO U2 for everything that they have given the world over their 25 years in the music industry. I will always remember the MANY GIFTS THAT THEY HAVE GIVEN US over the years.:up:

I will speak only Good of them because that is all that they have tried to give us.

It is sad that many of us have no sense of continuity or gratefulness to this wonderful group of men and musicians.

GRACE FINDS BEAUTY IN EVERYTHING....:wink:


Oh please. :rolleyes:
Do you honestly believe the BS you just spouted? Do you?
If so, that just boggles my mind.
Of course, I thought your first post was overwrought... :shrug:


* edited to add:

You can think and post whatever you want, I firmly believe that. It's when you complain that others do not share your exceptionally rosey view that I find nauseaing. (Just wanted to make that clear.)
 
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indra said:



Oh please. :rolleyes:
Do you honestly believe the BS you just spouted? Do you?
If so, that just boggles my mind.
Of course, I thought your first post was overwrought... :shrug:


* edited to add:

You can think and post whatever you want, I firmly believe that. It's when you complain that others do not share your exceptionally rosey view that I find nauseaing. (Just wanted to make that clear.)


:up:
 
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