Who hates Achtung Baby?

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I dont hate it (i dont hate any u2 albums, i think they are all better than anything else thats out at the moment) I just think it can be slightly overrated at times. I hate that it is labelled as u2s best album, where albums such as war and boy get completely forgotten about. I like all the songs on it, but I don't think its quite the masterpiece people make it out to be. Pop towers above it!
 
I think Achtung Baby is easily in the top 2 U2 albums partly because of its quality and daring and also because of its importance. I wholeheartedly believe that if they hadn't made this album then it's unlikely they would still be here today making records. As one of the previous posters said, a Joshua Tree 2 esque album in the early 90's era of grunge and dance music wouldn't have gone down particularly well (and don't forget the record company expects big sales from a band like U2) in that musical climate. I think the type of music they displayed on Achtung was perfect and gave them a peddestool to build on.

I for one am very happy that U2 chose the path they did and i love the album :) (even if i slightly prefer the JT these days :wink: )
 
If you released both the Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby today, with the only difference being the slight clean up in production to bring it to 2006 standards, which do you think would do better?
 
:hmm: I think AB would do better, mainly because its tracks stand alone a little bit better than JT. JT is an incredible album, has much better flow than AB, but the songs individually are consistently stronger on AB (which I think would give it the edge on the radio and therefore in people's homes, cars, and minds).

I think the clean-up would also make UTEOTW into a mediocre (on the album) track into a centerpiece. I can barely hear the fucking thing on the album, that's the one thing that really annoys me about AB.
 
Hmmm...my first U2 album, though I didnt buy it till 2000. I've always regarded it as my favourite of all of them, by which I mean the one I pick as my favourite most often. But I still see flaws in it, as with every U2 album (except Boy, imho, which is exactly as it was meant to be :wink: )

I too put a lot of stock into what Axver says, because he seems to put a lot of thought into it, and I also respect many of the posters who've entered their two cents here.

As per the thread. Yes, I love the album. I've disliked it before. Somtimes there have been songs I just couldn't stomach. But it always comes back, and there are still some true U2 classics...The Fly, LiB, Acrobat, and imo Ultraviolet. Some songs took me longer to warm up to...So Cruel, Zoo Station.

But in all honesty, the live experience has scewed my entire view of the album. I mean every song (that was played) was fantastic live. Even the under-appreciated TTTYAATW, with its sweet poppy acoustic guitar. I fell in love with UTEOTW from the Pop tour, and Mysterious Ways from old Zoo boots. I think knowing that the live versions of each song leave the album fully in their dust makes each listen that much worse.

I drift more and more from AB and more into live material. If Acrobat were ever done live, I'd stick all the best on a disc and my Ab would collect dust.

Just Me?

~A.j.~
 
Earnie Shavers said:
If you released both the Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby today, with the only difference being the slight clean up in production to bring it to 2006 standards, which do you think would do better?
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JT, because AB has some really weak songs, and JT has very, very few.
 
fandangamoq said:
Hmmm...my first U2 album, though I didnt buy it till 2000. I've always regarded it as my favourite of all of them, by which I mean the one I pick as my favourite most often. But I still see flaws in it, as with every U2 album (except Boy, imho, which is exactly as it was meant to be :wink: )

I too put a lot of stock into what Axver says, because he seems to put a lot of thought into it, and I also respect many of the posters who've entered their two cents here.

As per the thread. Yes, I love the album. I've disliked it before. Somtimes there have been songs I just couldn't stomach. But it always comes back, and there are still some true U2 classics...The Fly, LiB, Acrobat, and imo Ultraviolet. Some songs took me longer to warm up to...So Cruel, Zoo Station.

But in all honesty, the live experience has scewed my entire view of the album. I mean every song (that was played) was fantastic live. Even the under-appreciated TTTYAATW, with its sweet poppy acoustic guitar. I fell in love with UTEOTW from the Pop tour, and Mysterious Ways from old Zoo boots. I think knowing that the live versions of each song leave the album fully in their dust makes each listen that much worse.

I drift more and more from AB and more into live material. If Acrobat were ever done live, I'd stick all the best on a disc and my Ab would collect dust.

Just Me?

~A.j.~
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Agreed. :up:
 
Axver said:


I cannot comprehend why people here rank this album so highly; maybe you're all listening to a different album.
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Imagine if that were true...wouldn't it be weirrrrd? We could all have localised versions based on geography.

Accordion Baby!
 
When you compare a masterpiece like Achtung Baby to there early albums such as Boy, October and War then its as if they are made by different bands. To be honest, listening to albums such as the first 3 is kinda of hard work these days such is the greatness of what they have done since. Achtung Baby stands head and shoulders above there other albums and to fully appreciate how GOOD this album is you really needed to be around at the time when it was released. A massive musical change to listen to this after Joshua Tree/Rattle and Hum era not only musically but sonically, not to mention the massive image change by the band from the end of the 80's to the the 90's. Yep the album is up there with Radioheads OK Computer as probably the 2 greatest albums ever made.:wink:
 
fandangamoq said:
Hmmm...my first U2 album, though I didnt buy it till 2000.

But in all honesty, the live experience has scewed my entire view of the album. I mean every song (that was played) was fantastic live.

~A.j.~
Click to expand...

Its difficult to explain the impact this had at the time of its release. So maybe this is why you and other 'newer' fans can't fully appreciate what a classic it is. If you have the opinion that the live versions are better than the studio versions then I wonder what live versions you mean. There has never been a better version of The Fly than the album version, the Elevation live and the Vertigo live version of The Fly, while being great versions, don't come close...one main reason being is that they NEVER EVER did the falsetto as good as the original and also Edges fuc#ed up Hendrix influenced wah wah has never got anywhere close in a live performance. The only live version that has maybe improved the album version is probably "Until the end of the world" which admitedly has more power live. Other live versions of Zoo Station, Mysterious Ways, One, Even Better than The real thing are not as good as the originals. Mysterious Ways has maybe a better guitar solo live but the live version always lost the funk in this track. As I have said before, sonically this album is perfect, probably to do with the troubled Hansa sessions which moulded the sound for Achtung Baby. The band have never sounded better, from Mullen and Claytons immense rhythm section, the bass is soo deep it will give your speakers stretch marks, to Edges Hendrix influenced wah wah guitar. Easily Edges finest hour as a guitarist, but having said that its the whole bands finest hour as a band!:wink:
 
liamcool said:
Take all of Axver's hatred of AB, multiply it by ten, and you have my opinion of that album. Absolutely despise it, only one song is even near U2's par.
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That was uncalled for!:shame:

For that comment you get a :|
 
shaun vox said:
achtung bay in one of the best albums ever!!! EVER!!
by any band!!!
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Ok I would just like to state that ALIVE by KISS is the best record of all, mainly because it's live...It inspired many people including that guy the has the really long hair growing from his chin and he play in Anthrax...and by the way Slash was also mainly inspired by KISS and ALIVE....LOVE your avatar!
 
Earnie Shavers said:
If you released both the Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby today, with the only difference being the slight clean up in production to bring it to 2006 standards, which do you think would do better?
Click to expand...

Interesting question...

I'm not sure what you mean by production at 2006 standards. By U2 standards or overall? Because 2006 has a wide variety of over-produced to very garage production...

But back to the question...

I would say AB, only because it has more sex. That may sound superficial or even a promotion of sorts, but it's neither. JT is actually a fluke in a way because the album is mostly spiritual, political, or social with very little sex. I think JT would be more like a Pearl Jam album these days. Well recieved but not huge...

Just my take.
 
MrBrau1 said:
Patiently awaits JT and AB REMASTERS. :drool:

It's almost be as good as March 1987 and November 1991.
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Indeed. As I said in another thread, I can't believe U2 haven't done this. Getting us all to buy their albums another time would be right up their alley. And I am the exact sucker that would go straight out and do it (shakes fist at Bono). Just give me AB, JT & UF at least.

And that's what I mean by updated production. No changes as such, just remastered.
 
ACHTUNG bebe is a masterpiece at least for one solid reason: Most bands don't recover when the musical landscape changes. U2 did a complete reversal and to much suprise they were more sucessful than ever, and they did it in a way that was far from selling out. Kudos just for that reason.

But i also dig the songs. Who would've thought the makers of "Stories For Boys" and "Rejoice" would some day have a bellydancer shakin' her thang on stage to a hit song of theirs?
 
There's not one U2 album I hate as a whole. Rattle and Hum, is my least liked album, but a couple of the songs I love.

Sometimes not paying too much attention to the lyrics ie, "Babyface", and I don't push the skip button.

"Trying to Throw Your Arms"... remove it from Achtung Baby and I'll listen to the album straight through like I do with Boy, October, and War.

I can find at least one redeeming feature in every U2 album, be it a song, a few songs, musical elements.

But that's probably true with any band you're a fan of. Gotta be at least one good thing on their latest work.
 
liamcool said:


I'm sorry, I didn't know making your opinion known was illegal on the blue crack. Am I overly critical of U2 sometimes? Yes. Do I enjoy most of their work? Yes. Is Achtung Baby one of those pieces that I don't enjoy at all? Yes.
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Not even the basslines to Mysterious Ways?

Especially the latest versions with an added slides not on the album.

Bass slides :drool:

Fun to do too ;)
 
rjhbonovox said:


Its difficult to explain the impact this had at the time of its release. So maybe this is why you and other 'newer' fans can't fully appreciate what a classic it is.
Click to expand...
I was a fan at the time the album was released

but when I listen to the album now, a gazillion years later, that doesn't effect the music on the album
I don't understand why people always bring it up when discussing the quality of an album

it's the same as the entire "innovation" cliche
does anyone really hear how innovative an album was 25 years ago?
does that make the music you're listening to right now any better?


so to answer this question

Earnie Shavers said:
If you released both the Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby today, with the only difference being the slight clean up in production to bring it to 2006 standards, which do you think would do better?
Click to expand...
I think Joshua Tree would do 20 times better

also commercially since the first 3 tracks would still be massive hits
 
So let me get this straight. There are people here that don't like Achtung Baby? That's ridiculous. Yet, these same people love Zooropa?? Even more ridiculous.
 
WalkOnTheEdge said:
So let me get this straight. There are people here that don't like Achtung Baby? That's ridiculous. Yet, these same people love Zooropa?? Even more ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Give me a break, and don't make such ridiculous, narrow-minded comments.

I hate Achtung and love Zooropa, yes. Why? Well, you don't see Zooropa, Numb, Lemon, or The Wanderer on Achtung Baby, do you?
 
You know, I think it might be worthwhile to fully articulate my opinion on why I hate Achtung Baby. It seems some folk here are having a bit of trouble understanding the perspective of those of us who dislike Achtung, so here's my comprehensive explanation.

The album as a whole: I listen to albums for a cohesive, complete experience. Atmosphere and themes mean a lot to me. However, I find Achtung incredibly incohesive; it is jarring, disjointed, and has one of the worst track orders of any U2 album. I get no sense of cohesion, just a band trying too hard to come up with something new and ending up with a patchy mishmash of material.

Furthermore, I just don't like the change. I prefer the political U2 of the eighties. I'm also a fan of irony, but I feel it was much better realised later in the nineties. I also just don't feel the passion or artistry that I hear in albums such as Boy, UF, and JT. I feel it returned for Zooropa, but Achtung feels very "dead" to me. It does not have much of a soul, it doesn't stimulate much of an emotional response in me at all. It leaves me thinking "... that can't have been the band that could bring a tear to my eye with One Tree Hill. Where did they go?"

As for the individual songs:

Zoo Station (7/10): I love the intro, but I don't feel the rest of the song lives up to it. Musically, it starts interesting and turns into a plod. Lyrically, it's the opposite; the repetitiveness of parts irk me (Bono, we get the point, you're ready), but it improves and has some good lines.

EBTTRT (5/10): I honestly find the intro catchy, and I like the "we're free to fly" verse. I'd like to believe that it has a deep lyrical meaning, but it just registers as too shallow on the whole. I don't like shallow music.

One (1/10): I think I've articulated my position on this sufficiently earlier in this thread.

UTEOTW (8/10): Poor UTEOTW. It is such a great song, a rocking beast and a U2 classic in every sense, but its studio production tries to suck to the life out of it, especially its conclusion. Thank goodness that its greatness manages to shine through nonetheless. I love its lyrical basis; a great take on the Gospels by Bono.

WGRYWH (4/10): I quite enjoyed this song live, but it doesn't really do it for me in the studio. Some of the lyrics are really dreadful too.

So Cruel (2/10): Poor, unfortunate So Cruel! It has some amazing lyrics, some of the best Bono has ever written, but it is musically terrible. It puts me to sleep. And the mixing just makes it worse.

The Fly (10/10): Now we're talking. This rocks my face off and has some exceptional lyrics. Way to go, U2.

Mysterious Ways (5/10): I wish the studio version were more like the live version. I appreciate the deeper meaning of the lyrics and how Bono makes them work effectively on multiple levels, but this song really suffers from poor mixing.

TTTYAATW (0/10): A boring plod. There is little redeeming about this song besides a couple of humorous lines. It never should have been on an album. It would be a pretty sucky b-side even.

Ultra Violet (0/10): Baby, baby, baby, fuckin' go away.

Acrobat (10/10): GENIUS. This is the best song on the album, and in my top eight U2 songs of all time (some Achtung hater I am!). Everything about this song works on every level. I'm not sure I can even fully articulate my opinion about Acrobat; it's just so good. I wish the rest of the album were this good! A diamond in the rough.

Love Is Blindness (10/10): An exceptional closer. I love this song a lot, for its emotional depth and political interpretation, the power of its mournful solo, and its haunting atmosphere. Why couldn't the rest of the album have an atmosphere like this and Alex Descends Into Hell? It'd be a dark masterpiece then.

And I guess that's about it really. Hopefully I won't get slagged off.
 
I don't really believe in 0/10
personally I think "If God would send ..."is the worst thing U2 ever released, but I would still rate it 5/10 because I do recognise some elements that are enjoyable

other than that I don't share your opinion about One (though it's not my favourite U2 song I do think it's good) and Acrobat (I think this song is very mediocre musically, great lyrics though)

really like what you said about Zoo Station, Even better ...., Until the end, the Fly and Mysterious Ways

:up:
 
Salome said:
I don't really believe in 0/10
personally I think "If God would send ..."is the worst thing U2 ever released, but I would still rate it 5/10 because I do recognise some elements that are enjoyable
Click to expand...

I suppose it depends on what I'm rating songs against. My ratings above can basically be considered my ratings of those songs against the rest of U2's catalogue. Those ratings wouldn't change much if I changed the criteria to "all music I like". However, if I were rating Achtung against all music ever, the lowest I'd probably give is 5/10. Elvis Ate America would come dead last out of all U2/U2-related material, on 4/10.
 
WalkOnTheEdge said:
So let me get this straight. There are people here that don't like Achtung Baby? That's ridiculous. Yet, these same people love Zooropa?? Even more ridiculous.
Click to expand...

There's no need to bash others people's opinions.
 
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