Whats the deal with Crumbs froms Your Table referring to the USA?

[coach]

It's not attacking the U.S. or any church in particular, it's a song about the angry sentiment of broken promises and indifference, whether it's between people, or as the bridge suggest, between, classes, countries, first and third worlds. It's a big F**k-off-if-you're-not-going-to-keep-your-promises to the rich folks of the world; on dropping dept, on making AIDS cocktails cheaper, etc, etc.

 

[MrBrau1]

or maybe, it's about the church, cause, ya know, Bono said it was about the church. And when people refer to "The Church", they mean the Catholic Church, cause they woun't promote condom use to help prevent the spread of AIDS.

 

[Jamila]

The "church" is all those who proclaim to follow Christ's teachings but fail to live up to their Christian responsibility to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, protect the orphaned, etc.

The "church" is also any religious denomination that is judgmental regarding others - whether that church is Catholic, Lutheran, evangelical, etc - and that decides not to take care of the needs of others because of their judgmental attitudes.

I have seen Bono speak THREE times about the AIDS pandemic and I can tell you that he is NOT singling out any particular denomination for rebuke.

Bono is singling out a POVERTY that exists in the hearts and actions of many religious people who sit in judgment of others less fortunate than themselves and then refuse to help these same people lift themselves up out of that poverty.

Let's please stop putting words in Bono's mouth and simply stop inferring what he means.

What he says is what he means.

Nothing more, nothing less.

THANK YOU, BONO, FOR SIMPLY BEING YOU.

YOU SPEAK OF SIGNS AND WONDERS, BUT I NEED SOMETHING OTHER....

 

[lazarus]

You can pretend all you want that the Catholic Church isn't primarily Bono's focus, but as an institution, no other denomination has that kind of organized power or influence.

Also, the Catholic Church has a pretty long list of crimes it has perpetrated or condoned, so I'd say that any criticism has been well earned.

Without turning this into a total religious discussion, the missionaries who have gone to third world countries to "help" have usually been accompanied by powers that would subjugate any "savages" that fail to accept Christ. That charity has often come with a steep price, something Jesus probably wouldn't be too proud of. I know that it's not necessarily the point of Crumbs, but the Catholic Church is shares blame for not only the spread of AIDS because of their pathetically outdated stance on birth control, but overpopulation as well.


laz

 

[yolland]

I did some Googling around and found that, unsurprisingly, one can find quotes from Bono to support almost any of these interpretations.

Q magazine's track-by-track HTDAAB summary, 2 Oct. 2004: "I went to speak to Christian fundamentalist groups in America to convince them to give money to fight AIDS in Africa. It was like getting blood from a stone."

Boston Globe, 25 July, 2004: "Look, this is more than a hill to climb, and there are a few chasms to cross. Unfair trade is a big one. No one in the West is ready to jump that yet, but they should. Foreign assistance is another. The United States is 22nd in the list of richest countries when it comes to how much it gives to the poorest as a percentage of its wealth, including private philanthropy."

UK TV's Channel 5, 27 Oct. 2004: "We're holding the poorest of the poor hostage for debts of their grandparents. The UK is a board member, as you know, of the IMF and the World Bank and they're still demanding. They still want their money back. So in Zambia--no schools being built, you know, no hospitals being built because they're still servicing the debts. This is bananas."

The one interpretation I couldn't find any quotes to support, and didn't expect to, was MrBrau1's. Catholic Relief Services, the charity arm of the Catholic Bishops Conference, is (and has been for years) the largest charity doing AIDS relief in Africa, and Bono has co-chaired many appeals (for both debt and AIDS relief)with its leaders. In his 16 Sept., 2003 speech before Congress requesting an additional $1 billion for AIDS relief, Bono said: "It's not just musicians and people of faith who believe the full $3 billion is needed--it's groups like the Catholics who care for 25 percent of the people with AIDS in the world."

At any rate, Catholicism is a minority religion in Africa (less than 15%), and the Vatican has no police or military with which to enforce its "laws" on anyone--not that banning condoms would meet with much resistance from the (even more conservative) majority Muslim populations. It's true that Catholic Relief Services typically refuse to support AIDS prevention programs promoting condom use, but as an independent charitable organization, they have a right to decide how their own funds should be spent. The "culture of rape" (Bono's phrase) and profound female disempowerment prevailing in much of Africa is a far more potent factor in the spread of AIDS than the sexual mores espoused by Africa's major religious institutions.

 

[financeguy]

Whatever happened to the whole idea that Bono wrote songs that were ambiguous enough where different people could interpret according to their point of view?

My sentiments exactly.

 

[shart1780]

I don't think I'm the only one who's seen multiple song interpretations from Bono himself. Miracle Drug comes to mind.

I never thought of it as being about evangelicals, but rich people who don't help at all.

 

[Jamila]

Thank you, yolland, for your well-researched response.

It should stop the bashing (anti-catholocism?) that we've experienced in this thread.

I am no big person, but I have done volunteer work with several organizations involved with Global AIDS and extreme poverty for years, including those that Bono is involved in.

I have followed EVERY speech that Bono has ever made on the AIDS pandemic and have seen him on three separate occasions (actually saw 5 separate talks that he has given on the AIDS pandemic) and he has NEVER criticized the Catholic church - in fact he has praised the Pope for his continued stance for debt cancellation and greater attention to the needs of the poor.

What Bono was criticizing in "Crumbs" was the incredible wall of resistance that he found in the more conservative branches of Christianity (yes - evangelicals) when he started his AIDS campaign several years ago (at least up to 2002).

THANKS TO GOD AND TO BONO'S PERSISTENCE, that attitude is changing amongst the more conservative branches of Christianity but IT WAS THERE. And that is what prompted Bono to express his original anger and disbelief in this song.

If you followed Bono's Heart of America tour as closely as I did in Dec. 2002, you would remember the quotations of Bono during that tour and his disappointment (ie, disgust) that conservative Christians at that point were resistant to Bono's ideas about helping those affected by that AIDS pandemic.

He actually openly chided a gathering in Louisville who had given Agnes Nyamayarwo a chilly reception due to the fact that her husband had given her the HIV virus.

I encourage everyone to know the facts before they make such broad-brushed comments on Bono as I have seen in this thread and others.

THE GOAL IS SOUL....

 

[babyman]

what a whole lot of...........confusion!

 

[starsgoblue]

Bono has openly criticized organized religion (meaning any denomination) that ignores and fails to respond to social problems of the day. He has likened AIDS to be the new leprosy.

Further more, if you want to really get into it, there is a chapter in the satirical book The Screwtape Letters (where Bono got his inspiration for MacPhisto). In it the senior devil is telling his protege the best way to undermine a human's faith is not by "going for the obvious" such as encouraging outwardly bad behavior but instead to encourage the person to get caught up in their own piousness and not see outside the four walls of the church and act's as God's hands. Doing so basically will render the church socially irrelevant, Lewis argues....and therefore nothing more than a social club.

I think the 'signs and wonders' Bono speaks of refers to a growing group within Christianity called the Signs & Wonders movement. It is not denominational and is very focused on the charismatic/evangelical. People in this movement believe all the spiritual giftings (ie, healing, physical responses to God's presence, tongues, prophetic) are in use today. The criticism that can happen is that some can become so focused on the outward manifestations and desire for the 'experience' of being spiritual that it becomes the main focus, when the main focus of Christianity is to care and be the voice for those who cannot care or speak for themselves....in other words, to be God's hands here on earth and try to emulate Christ's example.

Bono's never claimed a doubt in God. But he has voiced doubts in any organization that claims to be focused on God in voice but not in action. To him, he doesn't need the 'signs and wonders' because he has the love and it's the motivation one gets from love/compassion that will move one to action. This song is a battle cry. Arm yourself with love and it can conquer anything.

 

[Jamila]

thank you, stars -

We must let Bono speak for himself and not continue to put words in his mouth.

Read the man's words.

THIS IS THE TIME TO FINISH WHAT YOU'VE STARTED. THIS IS NO TIME TO DREAM....

 

[U2Kitten]

oh never mind

 

[LeafsNation]

...it was directed at the Evangelicals. Even the Pope and the Catholic Church reject the notion that AIDS is God's punishment for being gay, unlike SOME evangelicals.

 

[bathiu]

There's no need to argue, all of you are right...

This song is about U.S. Canada, Europe, Russia, Australia ... about those more rich countries in Asia,(all the countries that sometimes do not remember that other continents exist), it's about christians, jews, muslims, etc; it's about political and religious leaders (that talk to much and do nothing at all) and finaly it's about "me and you" to make real actions.

 

[starsgoblue]

 

[mysticchild]

I believe that Bono writes his lyrics that can relate to anything a person wants to relate it to. I hope that made sense lol , anyway through the years his lyrics have always had different meanings to it depending on what I am trying to relate it to. Wow , I have said alot of relates here. I think you get what I am trying to say. It is 1:23 in the morning here and I have to hit the hay. nite

 

[U2DMfan]

Bono wrote it about the church, he said he wrote it about the chruch, yet that is still not good enough for some of you. Jeez, get a grip on reality, please.

 

[bathiu]

...as much as I don't like any form of "church", I must say that this song is about everyone... not just about "church"...

 

[zoology]

Hot Press

Would you be willing to post a scan of that Hot Press article? I'd like to read it if I can.

 

[zooroper]

so what if he is reffering to the USA?!? what's the problem?