What the hell is so wrong with Pop?

[melon]

And I think this thread needs the word "gay" a few more times.

The video wasn't "gay." It was too "hetero." That's why it failed. Heterosexuals suck at being cool or fashionable. Period.



Melon

 

[deltau922]

I have never listened to European music so I don't know if AB was Eurpoean or not. I only know that it was awesome and that I was one of 77,000 red-state Americans who packed into an NFL stadium to wintess that album's ensuing tour.

 

[youtwohearts]

NOTHING is wrong with POP. It is one of my favorite albums. People that don't like POP just didn't give it a chance and probably had an idea about it before they even heard it. The album got a bad rap and it is unfortunate because it really is good.

 

[doctorwho]

I'm also tired of the 'Pop is daring and now they're safe' bullshit. Look, these guys were in the studio for 3 years, they said they were going to rock, they said it was punk rock made on Venus, what you got IS what was in them, they are NOT holding back or being 'safe.' This is what U2 is, on the inside. If you don't like it maybe you are not as much of a fan as you think. U2 have NEVER played to the current market and they have always been successful. They are not putting out something they think will sell. They are putting out what came out of four guys in a studio over 3 years. Like it or leave it alone, there is no evil, 'safe' anti-Pop plot behind it! Pop was what was in them in 1997. This is what is in them now.

back to you, U2Kitten.

While I responded to this thread, I concur that this topic is over-discussed.

But what I really enjoy about your post is this "safe" kick many fans here have of U2's recent work.

"Stuck in a Moment..." is unlike any song U2 have ever written. I think this is the sound U2 wanted to capture on R&H, but didn't have the skill, wisdom or experience to write at that time in their lives. This is a very soulful and powerful song. This song makes teaches other R&B music what it's supposed to sound like.

On the current album, "Love & Peace or Else" and "Fast Cars" are also radically different - and dare I say it? - experimental. I find them far more experimental than songs like "Discotheque" (which was hailed as some great innovation at the time). Even "Vertigo" is far more experimental for U2, having a punk sound that they haven't touched since 1980! But "Love & Peace" and "Fast Cars" really show another side to U2 that prove they are still exploring. There's nothing "safe" about this album.

However, for those who still scream that HTDAAB is "safe", may I remind you of "One", "Mysterious Ways", "Stay", "Miss Sarajevo", "Staring at the Sun", "If God Will Send His Angels" and "Please". These are songs that could have appeared on a myriad of U2 albums, past and present. These songs - all from supposedly more "experimental" albums, have the "classic" U2 sound to them. Sounds like "experimental" U2 also has plenty of "safe" moments too. I see the same pattern in HTDAAB. Yes, there is some "safe" moments, but it's experimental and progressive as well.

Most importantly, even with the "safe" songs, U2 still sound fresh and invigorating. This isn't U2 repeating themselves. There's not another "With or Without You" or "One" here. U2 have the unique ability to sound like themselves yet still sound new and exciting - a feature many older artists lack.

 

[U2Kitten]

Thanks doctorwho, you are exactly right!

 

[jick]

What is wrong with POP? Well, any fan can give all kinds of reasons what makes it wrong or not wrong. So it's better to take it from the horses' mouths:

"Unfinished." - Bono

"Unifinished." - Mullen

"Disjointed." - Eno

"Comparative flop." - McGuiness

POP spawned 6 singles (Discotheque, SATS, LNOE, IFWSHA, Mofo, Please), 3 of them (or 50%) had single versions, showing the band weren't contented with the album versions. Yet despite having 6 singles, only two of these singles (or 33% of the POP singles) made it to the Best of 1990-2000. And both songs, plus another POP song ("Gone") were all remixed for the Best Of collection for a 100% remix average.

It is clear that U2 have issues with POP. They almost released every song as a single in a desperate hope to find a song that will click with the public (none did). To save face, they even tried released a non-single ("Gone") in the Best Of 1990-2000 collection because all the other singles failed to make a impression on anyone.

Now that latest rumor is that U2 plan on making a POP Finished album.

If you ask some people in this board, there is nothing wrong with POP. I think you should just ask U2 instead.

Cheers,

J

 

[ponkine]

Pop is far better than all this ATYCLB I and II and better than all this commercial and cheap hype.

 

[ponkine]

Pop is far better than all this ATYCLB I and II and better than all this commercial and cheap hype.

I really hope this "finished" Pop version won´t be a "new mixes" like those ones appeared on The Best Of 1990-2000

I think it would be a nice idea to release Pop with all the single versions instead

 

[amniar]

I'm pretty sure anyone who hasn't heard any European music must walk around with their hands over their ears all day.

 

[melon]

If you ask some people in this board, there is nothing wrong with POP. I think you should just ask U2 instead.

As I stated in a similar thread, I don't really think it matters what U2 thinks. I hated their remake of "Discotheque." But if they want to remake and resell "Pop," I'll certainly buy it.

I really think "Pop" is a victim of poor marketing, more than anything. Their choice of singles were awful and they let people spin the album into a "dance album" well before "Discotheque" came out as a single...which only confirmed and let down people as a "dance album." I think this song should never have been released as a single.

Obviously, Universal thought the marketing was awful too; hence, the switch to Interscope in the U.S. Only U2 would have a "flop" with a multiplatinum album in the U.S., apparently. But now we get U2 doing football music videos with John Madden and a disposable "Tomb Raider" video. I guess there's always a trade off.

Melon

 

[cardosino]

What is wrong with POP? Well, any fan can give all kinds of reasons what makes it wrong or not wrong. So it's better to take it from the horses' mouths:

"Unfinished." - Bono

"Unifinished." - Mullen

"Disjointed." - Eno

"Comparative flop." - McGuiness

POP spawned 6 singles (Discotheque, SATS, LNOE, IFWSHA, Mofo, Please), 3 of them (or 50%) had single versions, showing the band weren't contented with the album versions. Yet despite having 6 singles, only two of these singles (or 33% of the POP singles) made it to the Best of 1990-2000. And both songs, plus another POP song ("Gone") were all remixed for the Best Of collection for a 100% remix average.

It is clear that U2 have issues with POP. They almost released every song as a single in a desperate hope to find a song that will click with the public (none did). To save face, they even tried released a non-single ("Gone") in the Best Of 1990-2000 collection because all the other singles failed to make a impression on anyone.

Now that latest rumor is that U2 plan on making a POP Finished album.

If you ask some people in this board, there is nothing wrong with POP. I think you should just ask U2 instead.

Cheers,

J

To add further fuel to the fire, interesting that on most shows on the last tour, U2 was playing more stuff from JT or UF than they were Pop, unheard of for such a major band to completely disregard their last major work on a tour.

Even for the more "cultured" and more "sophisticated" European audiences who "got" Pop......

 

[U2Kitten]

To add further fuel to the fire, interesting that on most shows on the last tour, U2 was playing more stuff from JT or UF than they were Pop, unheard of for such a major band to completely disregard their last major work on a tour.

Did you ever consider that was because Pop was their most recent past tour, and they didn't want to rehash it? They probably won't do much ATYCLB on this tour for the same reason.

for the more "cultured" and more "sophisticated" European audiences who "got" Pop......

Too bad so many people here don't 'get' ATYCLB and HTDAAB It takes hidden genius, you know (yes I am being sarcastic and throwing off on the stupidity of the old, and insulting, 'got it' argument.)

 

[amniar]

To add further fuel to the fire, interesting that on most shows on the last tour, U2 was playing more stuff from JT or UF than they were Pop, unheard of for such a major band to completely disregard their last major work on a tour.

Even for the more "cultured" and more "sophisticated" European audiences who "got" Pop......

Not sure what concerts you were at. Discotheque, Staring at the Sun, Gone and Wake Up Dead Man were pretty regular on the tour. Even Please got a few outings. As for UF... Pride and Bad and... er.... A Sort of Homecoming a few times maybe. JT? We had WOWY, Streets and Bullet. That was about it. Maybe ISHFWILF a couple of times.

 

[cardosino]

Did you ever consider that was because Pop was their most recent past tour, and they didn't want to rehash it? They probably won't do much ATYCLB on this tour for the same reason.

Normally, they do play a decent amount of more recent material. So they're OK with rehashing AB/JT songs, or playing I will Follow for the zillionth time but they can't play more than 1 or 2, sometimes zero songs from their last album ? Not like them at all.

 

[U2Kitten]

There were some tours they didn't play I Will Follow at all. They brought back Out of Control in Elevation for the first time in many years.

 

[amniar]

Normally, they do play a decent amount of more recent material. So they're OK with rehashing AB/JT songs, or playing I will Follow for the zillionth time but they can't play more than 1 or 2, sometimes zero songs from their last album ? Not like them at all.

Note my reply above.

 

[Achtung Ya'll]

I think Pop is a freakin' work of genius and one of their best albums ever. I guess it's just all opinion but whenever U2 says they're releasing a hard rock album (like they've said for the past two albums) I always think "I doubt it will top the drive in Pop"

 

[cardosino]

Not sure what concerts you were at. Discotheque, Staring at the Sun, Gone and Wake Up Dead Man were pretty regular on the tour. Even Please got a few outings. As for UF... Pride and Bad and... er.... A Sort of Homecoming a few times maybe. JT? We had WOWY, Streets and Bullet. That was about it. Maybe ISHFWILF a couple of times.

Discotheque was dropped fairly early on, only played sporadically. Gone was gone by the 3rd leg. Wake, SATS and Please were also very sporadic. No one song from Pop other than Gone on the 1st 2 legs was anywhere near to being a regular in the set.

From UF, Bad and Pride were there almost every night. So they are choosing to play songs from 84 more often than 97.

From JT, WOWY was there first 2 legs. Streets and Bullet were there all 3 legs. Again, significantly more regular appearances than songs from Pop.

 

[melon]

Discotheque was dropped fairly early on, only played sporadically. Gone was gone by the 3rd leg. Wake, SATS and Please were also very sporadic. No one song from Pop other than Gone on the 1st 2 legs was anywhere near to being a regular in the set.

From UF, Bad and Pride were there almost every night. So they are choosing to play songs from 84 more often than 97.

From JT, WOWY was there first 2 legs. Streets and Bullet were there all 3 legs. Again, significantly more regular appearances than songs from Pop.

I would say that this is an unfair argument. A band will almost always dig out their earlier catalog, because that's when they were most popular. That's what the fans want, after all.

Melon

 

[amniar]

Discotheque was dropped fairly early on, only played sporadically. Gone was gone by the 3rd leg. Wake, SATS and Please were also very sporadic. No one song from Pop other than Gone on the 1st 2 legs was anywhere near to being a regular in the set.

From UF, Bad and Pride were there almost every night. So they are choosing to play songs from 84 more often than 97.

From JT, WOWY was there first 2 legs. Streets and Bullet were there all 3 legs. Again, significantly more regular appearances than songs from Pop.

I still find your argument ridiculous as well as factually questionable. You are singling out five of their biggest hits ever and saying "well they play them more than the 1997 hits, which obviously shows they hate Pop".

Piffle.

 

[blueyedpoet]

um, it seems that since a wide variety (meaning five or six different tracks) was played from Pop during the Elevation tour that this might suggest the album has a better over-all quality than UF. also i think that the pop atmosphere didn't really fit in with the Elevation/ATYCLB feel. Maybe that's why the live versions of the Pop songs that were played were different than the studio versions.

 

[cardosino]

I still find your argument ridiculous as well as factually questionable. You are singling out five of their biggest hits ever and saying "well they play them more than the 1997 hits, which obviously shows they hate Pop".

Piffle.

Which part is factually questionable ?

The fact that they are 5 of their biggest hits ever and Pop doesn't have anything resembling that speaks volumes.

You may find my argument ridiculous, I really don't care, btu most bands/tours I've been to over the last 25 years have the band in question playing a decent amount of material from their most recent work as well as the one they happen to be propmoting. The amount of songs played from Pop with any consistency on the Elevation tour, coupled with the band's own well documented dissatisfaction and the fact that only the songs from Pop on their best of were versions which they felt needed new mixes lead me to believe they are not terribly happy with Pop.

You can draw your own conclusions, there is clearly no right answer.

 

[tryon]

That's what the fans want, after all.

Melon

Intro to Numb from the ZooTV tour:

"...you can't sell the same thing to the same old crowd forever..."

PoP is pretty low on my list of favorites, but I recognize it for what it is. It certainly has more energy than either of the last two records released.

Miami: one of the best tracks on the record.

Staring at the Sun: one of the worst ("...Stuck together with God's glue"? C'mon, that's just plain awful!)

 

[cardosino]

um, it seems that since a wide variety (meaning five or six different tracks) was played from Pop during the Elevation tour that this might suggest the album has a better over-all quality than UF.

It might had those songs been played consistently on an nightly basis. Full band songs from Pop other Gone on the first 2 legs were a bit of a rarity indeed.

also i think that the pop atmosphere didn't really fit in with the Elevation/ATYCLB feel. Maybe that's why the live versions of the Pop songs that were played were different than the studio versions. [/B]

You might be onto something there.

 

[ZeroDude]

Wake up Dead man is amazing btw.............

 

[neutral]

The video wasn't "gay." It was too "hetero." That's why it failed. Heterosexuals suck at being cool or fashionable. Period.



Melon

 

[rjhbonovox]

"Comparative flop." - McGuiness

POP spawned 6 singles (Discotheque, SATS, LNOE, IFWSHA, Mofo, Please), 3 of them (or 50%) had single versions, showing the band weren't contented with the album versions. Yet despite having 6 singles, only two of these singles (or 33% of the POP singles) made it to the Best of 1990-2000. And both songs, plus another POP song ("Gone") were all remixed for the Best Of collection for a 100% remix average.



J

There weren't six singles Mofo/if god will send was a double a side. And who cares what U2 think about pop anyway. They are talking out of there arse these days anyway. Only cos it didn't sell is the reason U2 say it wasn't finished and they have lost a lot of my respect for acting this way to an album that is the second best thing they have ever done.

 

[U2_Guy]

This Cardosino character and this Ji - "cheers" - ck character certainly never watched the "A Year in Pop" documentary or read the interviews from the time Pop was released.

Anyone who really believes the band dislike Pop should see A Year in Pop.

 

[U2Kitten]

But you have to consider, that did come out at the time of the release, they may have come to change their minds in time

 

[doctorwho]

Pop is far better than all this ATYCLB I and II and better than all this commercial and cheap hype.

I have two major problems with your short post.

First, apparently you conveniently forgot about all the commercialism and hype there was for "Pop" back in 1997. Let's not forget the K-Mart conference, U2 day on MTV, the TV special, the most toys/souvenirs ever at concerts (including snow globes!), tons of ads everywhere, etc. Trust me, the hype in late '96 and early '97 was just as bad - if not worse - than it is now! U2 were indeed everywhere. The problem is that the album didn't click with people. It debuted at #1 and spawned a top 10 hit in the U.S., but both were quickly forgotten.

The second issue is that you are suggesting HTDAAB is ATYCLB Part 2. I strongly disagree - in fact, ATYCLB wishes it was as good as HTDAAB (and this is coming from a person who really enjoys ATYCLB). The two albums are vastly different. U2 are far more experimental and risk-taking on HTDAAB than they ever were on ATYCLB (barring "Stuck..."). Furthermore, so many people here praise "Pop" as being "experimental". I don't think so. I venture to say that only three songs fall in that category: "Do You Feel Loved", "Mofo" and "Miami". The rest is either a straight rock song ("Discotheque") or classic U2 ("Please", "Staring...", "If God Will Send..."). HTDAAB has two highly experimental tracks in "Love & Peace..." and "Fast Cars" and a more risky one with "Vertigo". So both albums are as "safe" as each other.

If you don't like HTDAAB or ATYCLB, no problems. But don't insult this work as not being experimental or overly commercial compared to "Pop", when that album was just as commercial and safe.