what the hell is a YAHWEH?

[pepokiss]

that...

a U2 song named Yahweh... and I don't get it...

discuss... or explain...

 

[discothequeLP]

Yahweh is the Jewish "name" for God. I don't think they (Orthodox Jews, that is) are even allowed to say the name, so that might put them in a tight spot.



wow. religion class actually pays off...

 

[Ratman]

That's right. YAHWEH is the true name of God. JEHOVAH was a mistranslation. And you're also right that they never spoke His name, for fear of "using it in vain."

 

[bonosloveslave]

I think Jews can say it, I think it's printing out the whole name that they consider disrespectful - someone correct me if I'm wrong...

 

[RockNRollDawgie]

I think Jews can say it, I think it's printing out the whole name that they consider disrespectful - someone correct me if I'm wrong...

You are correct. I've seen Jews spell the name of God....G-d. They leave out the o.

 

[tkramer]

The most ancient Bible manuscripts were written in the Hebrew language. In the Hebrew Scriptures, the divine name occurs almost 7,000 times and is spelled with four consonants?YHWH or JHVH. These four-consonant words are commonly called the Tetragrammaton, or Tetragram, derived from two Greek words meaning "four letters." Now the question of accurate pronunciation arises because early Hebrew writing consisted of consonants with no vowels to guide the reader. So whether the pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton becomes Yahweh or Jehovah depends on which vowels the reader supplies to the four consonants. Today many Hebrew scholars like Yahweh as the pronunciation.

However, consistency favors Jehovah. In what way? The pronunciation Jehovah has been accepted in English for centuries. Those who object to using this pronunciation should also object to the use of the accepted pronunciation Jeremiah and even Jesus. Jeremiah would need to be changed to Yir?meyah' or Yir?meya'hu, the original Hebrew pronunciations, and Jesus would become Ye?shu'a` (Hebrew) or I?e?sous' (Greek). Hence, many Bible users (like me) feel that consistency favors the use of the already well-known English-language "Jehovah" and its equivalent in other languages.

Funny that a name that appeared so many times has since gained a negative connotation and thus removed. Sad, no one knows the name of God, but everyone knows who Paris Hilton is...

So a U2 song with Yahweh as the title could be interesting to say the least...

 

[BluRmGrl]

The most ancient Bible manuscripts were written in the Hebrew language. In the Hebrew Scriptures, the divine name occurs almost 7,000 times and is spelled with four consonants?YHWH or JHVH. These four-consonant words are commonly called the Tetragrammaton, or Tetragram, derived from two Greek words meaning "four letters." Now the question of accurate pronunciation arises because early Hebrew writing consisted of consonants with no vowels to guide the reader. So whether the pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton becomes Yahweh or Jehovah depends on which vowels the reader supplies to the four consonants. Today many Hebrew scholars like Yahweh as the pronunciation.

However, consistency favors Jehovah. In what way? The pronunciation Jehovah has been accepted in English for centuries. Those who object to using this pronunciation should also object to the use of the accepted pronunciation Jeremiah and even Jesus. Jeremiah would need to be changed to Yir?meyah' or Yir?meya'hu, the original Hebrew pronunciations, and Jesus would become Ye?shu'a` (Hebrew) or I?e?sous' (Greek). Hence, many Bible users (like me) feel that consistency favors the use of the already well-known English-language "Jehovah" and its equivalent in other languages.

Funny that a name that appeared so many times has since gained a negative connotation and thus removed. Sad, no one knows the name of God, but everyone knows who Paris Hilton is...

So a U2 song with Yahweh as the title could be interesting to say the least...

tkramer - your knowledge on the subject awes & excites me! Thanks for the contribution!
And so true about the Paris Hilton observation....

 

[artdirector]

There's a discussion in the book "Until the End of the World that mentions this title. It s a discussion about how Jews are better lyricists than anyone else. Bono tells Flannigan that Neil Diamond is also a great lyricists citing the work, "I Am, I Said." Yahweh comes up in Genesis as identified as "I Am" In other words, GOD. Interesting topic to discuss. Little did Bono know he would be using it in a song...or did he?

As for the title City of Burning/Blinding Lights, a similar title was used to describe another song they were working on called "Big City, Bright Lights"(pg. 182) Some lyrics used for this song are "Think forever...think about the rain...desperate sea. Jacobs ladder rescue me." Subject matter such as coffee stains, ghosts and streets are also things Bono touches on in this song from 1993. I wonder if this song has resurfaced as City of Burning/Blinding Lights?

 

[artdirector]

Correction, its in the book "At the End of the World"

 

[Axver]

Ah, the theological nerd in me was delighted to see tkramer's post. I also believe that in the original Hebrew, Yahweh is actually in multiple tenses - although it is understood to mean 'I am' or 'I am who I am', it can also be translated to mean 'I will be who I will be', 'I am who I was', 'I was who I will be', et cetera. That would emphasis the eternal and unchanging nature of the Jewish and Christian deity.

I'm really excited about this track. Just the title itself seems to imply that it is going to be a deep and serious song that will be full of the intelligence and spirituality we love from U2. The I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For of the 2000s, perhaps?

 

[Jamila]

And then there is the abbreviated form of "Jehovah" used by some people as Jah.

This has been a WONDERFUL discussion on a subject very close to my Heart and I truly appreciate everyone's contributions here.

I'm sure pepokiss' question has been fully answered.

 

[Catman]

The name is basically a name for one who is unnameable - God. It's believed in certain cultures that there is no name that is able to encompass everything that God is, so the name "Yahweh" is used.

 

[Roland of Gilead]

I am really excited about this song. With a title like this and the story behind it, I don't need to hear it to know that this is going to be one kickass U2 song! Hmmm, maybe an Until the End of the World pt.2?

 

[Catman]

^^^ I thought I read somewhere that the song is a gentle, reflective piece...sort of like "Grace." Or maybe I read that here under someone's expectations for the song

Regardless, I'm really interested as to what the lyrics of the song are

 

[u2ulysses]

I also believe that in the original Hebrew, Yahweh is actually in multiple tenses - although it is understood to mean 'I am' or 'I am who I am', it can also be translated to mean 'I will be who I will be', 'I am who I was', 'I was who I will be', et cetera. That would emphasis the eternal and unchanging nature of the Jewish and Christian deity.

This thought is also used in the song, "Elevation", where Bono sings "I and I in the sky". "Elevation" is a song about reconnecting with God (being lifted up by love). The first "I" in the verse refers to the singer and the second "I" refers to God (using the "I am who I was" thinking). In other words, Bono is simply calling God, "I" in the song. So not only was "Elevation" a rocking song, but one of faith as well. Quite enjoyable and something I think we'll see more of on the new album.

 

[martha]

"I and I" is a very common Rastafarian expression meaning "we" or "you and I." You hear it a lot in reggae songs or in Jamaica.

 

[u2ulysses]

"I and I" is a very common Rastafarian expression meaning "we" or "you and I." You hear it a lot in reggae songs or in Jamaica.

That is true, however, who is the "we" in this context? That is, who is the other "I"? While arguments could be made that it's a lover, Bono has used the sensual side of spirtuality in his lyrics before (such as with "Mysterious Ways" and "The First Time"). Hence, to me at least, the song is about God. The nature of the lyrics, with "I and I" referring to an "us" and with God also being known as "I", strongly suggests that "Elevation" is really a very spiritual song.

 

[Reggie Thee Dog]

U2ulyssess is correct, and a lot of reggae songs are spiritual in nature and call on God quite often. So U2ulysses' definition of "I and I" is right on the money.

 

[Jamila]

As a Rastafari follower since the mid-70s (Bob Marley's music "converted" me(I) when I was 16 years old), Rastas see themselves not only as ONE with all Life on earth but as ONE with the Almighty.

So when they (I and I) use this term they are not only referring to their inherent connection with people on this earth but with ALL of our connection to our (I and I) Creator - the Almighty, or as we (I and I) call God "JAH".

It's a BEAUTIFUL, ELOQUENT illustration of the interconnectedness of ALL LIFE - a replication of a trinity of being.(God, you, me - all "I and I")

And u2ulysses is correct - Bono has made allusions to this kind of mystical, poetic relationship with God for a long time. "I and I" in Elevation, "One Love" in ONE and in many more.

And remember, Bono has had a longtime Love and Respect for Bob Marley - the man, the music and the message in his music.

WE'RE ONE, BUT WE'RE NOT THE SAME. WE GET TO CARRY EACH OTHER.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

ya know i've listened to elevation probably a million times and i never realized it was I and I until you just said that... ponderous

i always thought it was higher now

 

[silenus]

Refering to God's name as plurial...
Is it's in different old scriptures only readable as more persons...(makes one think)
Also in the Dead Sea Scrolls (Qum-Ran - Enoch I) where even angels breed with female humans...
God's name also readable as Yahu and Jesus as Yahushua
(read more here: http://www.geocities.com/cut2thechase_ca/holyname.htm)
Greetz (or should I say: amen)

 

[intedomine]

I couldnt find yahweh in the dictionary but found Jahweh.

Lets hope u2 dont get overly religious on this album, i hate religion, and more people will ask me "if youre so anti religion why you listening to u2" and i hate responding to that....


Cracking song it might be though......

 

[Angela Harlem]

It's a Wonderwall.

 

[The Sage]

ya know i've listened to elevation probably a million times and i never realized it was I and I until you just said that... ponderous

i always thought it was higher now

Same here...

 

[ryanu23]

Interesting link silenus....good read. What I find interesting, and this may be a bit off-topic, is that within this post there has been several interpretations of one single word...yet the Bible has been translated, innumerable times and people are willing to take every nuance and comma at face value and turn it into a moral edict, incontestable...anyway...I thought it was interesting.

 

[stargift]

A two-syllable pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton as ?Yahweh? would not allow for the o vowel sound to exist as part of God?s name. But in the dozens of Biblical names that incorporate the divine name, this middle vowel sound appears in both the original and the shortened forms, as in Jehonathan and Jonathan. Thus, Professor Buchanan says regarding the divine name: ?In no case is the vowel oo or oh omitted. The word was sometimes abbreviated as ?Ya,? but never as ?Ya-weh.? .?.?. When the Tetragrammaton was pronounced in one syllable it was ?Yah? or ?Yo.? When it was pronounced in three syllables it would have been ?Yahowah? or ?Yahoowah.? If it was ever abbreviated to two syllables it would have been ?Yaho.???Biblical Archaeology Review.