What is wrong with ATYCLB??

[U2girl]

who on earth discusses the longetivity of an album that isn't even half a decade old???
and if you would like to discuss this than at least look at some of the facts we do have - like airplay - and acknowledge that this album is still more popular than Zooropa and POP combined


which is pretty much what U2kitten wrote in here and what I wrote in another thread a while ago

I don't mind people not liking ATYCLB
but I've read so many bullshit reasons on why this album supposedly is so bad (if anyone could explain to me why the lyrics to Elevation would be any worse than those of If God Will Send His Angels ...... well, they'd be wrong! ......... IMO )

so .. yes,
don't like continious bashing
it gets tiring no matter what album it happens with

90's U2 lovers who hate it could just let this album be and let others enjoy it without throwing tantrums all the time. You've made your point, we KNOW you don't like it.

I don't see how "it's too poppy (U2 is just as much WOWY as it is The fly)/safe (U2 was never afraid of being in the mainstream)?)/boring(this one wasn't about experimenting, so this argument doesn't really fly)" suddenly equals "it's a bad album". We still haven't heard a valid reason why it is the most bashed U2 album on this board. Unlike another U2 album we all know, it didn't have problems with selling out venues on tour, it had more hits, better chart success/sales and a bigger appeal to the audience. Not to mention better songs.

It's a really good album IMO, and possibly - in terms of popularity and wide masses appeal - the closest they will get to JT and AB times. It is aging well, and hasn't lost any of its charms.

 

[Angela Harlem]

You know something which makes me laugh, is only half of these fights are the ATYCLB haters...

Salome I bit. I looked up the lyrics to Elevation and If God Will Send His Angels just now to see how right you are, and I can TOTALLY see what you mean! Lyrically, Elevation is MILES ahead!!


I feel like I've been born again or something!

 

[Flying FuManchu]

What the hell is poppy to some people or what is a sugar-coated song? I didn't think ATYCLB was poppy at all. Maybe Beautiful Day and Elevation but every other song to me wasn't that "poppy" as I look at poppy. Not even power-pop. When I think of pop I think of old school Beatles' songs or Roxette or Back Street ballads- Summer of '69.... that kind of stuff.

ATYCLB maybe was a little boring/ bland in some parts, but I can't think of poppy. Note: Although I may call it somewhat bland or boring, I still like ATYCLB and don't hold it against U2 for making such an album.

 

[I'mstillrunning]

back when albums used to be albums [2 sided] to me you defined a great one by the tunes on the 2nd side...

you loved streets, still havent found, wowu, bullet and rtss, but you still throw the joshua tree in to listen to, well basically, every song 'on the back side'

is unforgettable fire a great album? the 1st back-side song has no words, another one is/was unfinished, mlk features no guitars or drums [not that it isnt great]....of course 'bad' calls that side home too

i think the thing that plagues atyclb is that it is missing just 1 big song 'on the back'

#7 on joshua tree is 'in God's country', the fly was #7 on AB, gone was #7 on 'pop'...#7 on atyclb is wild honey?

just give me one hard rock song on the back to keep the cd in there - the closest thing is 'new york', but to me that more resembles the dark, moody hard edged song "dirty day, exit, please" you generally find back there

the song that had to get it done was 'when i look at the world', and to me, it just spins around in circles and leaves you where you started

you guys follow the logic? [using that term loosely]

 

[Salome]

Salome I bit. I looked up the lyrics to Elevation and If God Will Send His Angels just now to see how right you are, and I can TOTALLY see what you mean! Lyrically, Elevation is MILES ahead!!


I feel like I've been born again or something!

I think the lyrics of Elevation are relatively poor

but at least they don't make me want to randomly kill people and animals like "it's the blind leading the blonde, it's the stuff, the stuff in country songs" manages to achieve

 

[U2Kitten]

Speaking of awful lyrics need I mention "Miami"

or even "Discotheque"

I honestly never knew how any huge "Pop" fan could use 'bad lyrics' as an argument to why ATYCLB was worse

 

[Angela Harlem]

I just read this same argument you posted 'elsewhere' and you cannot honestly say it's the use of the word 'stuff' which renders this song bad to you.

I hope U2 call the next album STUFF and also the tour. Just to annoy you.

 

[Salome]

well, not as much as "the blind leading the blonde" bit

which makes the mole digging in a hole suddenly sound like poetry

should they call the next album "blond" then I will mock them till eternity

 

[Salome]

I also vehemently dislike the use of "country songs" in those lyrics actually

 

[Angela Harlem]

HOW is a mole digging a hole poetry??????

"Dug a hole dad!"

But as you lack Australianism you will not get this.

ATYCLB has shitful lyrics. Pop does as well, but it never pretended otherwise.

 

[Salome]

you do make some good points for someone who should be in bed

 

[Angela Harlem]

Well maybe if you stopped talking to me I could go to bed and get some sleep.

 

[Salome]

I am not to blame for the lack of time you spend in bed

 

[Salome]

 

[Michael Griffiths]

As much as I love ATYCLB (it's a very good album), I must admit that lyrically it doesn't have a song that can touch some of the genius of Pop. For example, is there anything on ATYCLB that comes close to the following?

Listen to your words they'll tell you what to do
Listen over the rhythm that's confusing you
Listen to the reed in the saxophone
Listen over the hum of the radio
Listen over sounds of blades in rotation
Listen through the traffic and circulation
Listen as hope and peace try to rhyme
Listen over marching bands playing out their time

or...

September
Streets capsizing
Spilling over
Down the drain
Shards of glass
Splinters like rain
But you could only feel
Your own pain
October
Talk getting nowhere
November
December
Remember
Are we just starting again

or one of Bono's most brilliant idea reversals ever...

White dopes on punk staring into the flash


Besides, how can one possibly knock an album for its lyrics when it contains the word "intransigence"?

PS. 'If God Will Send His Angels' has one of - if not the most - pointed and direct lyrical intros to any U2 song ever:

Nobody else here baby
No one here to blame
No one to point the finger
It's just you and me and the rain

It singles me out everytime I hear it. It's like one on one.

 

[RockNRollDawgie]

ATYCLB made be a fan as well. It is a MATURE rock album from
a classic band. Is it like their earlier stuff? No. Is it like U2's
later stuff? No.
I don't understand what these ATYCLB bashers want?
They want an album like Metallica or something? GRRR!
If they don't realize it's an album which shows U2 maturity
and heartfelt lyrics, maybe they should stop listening to U2
altogether.
Be in that crowd that says the only good U2 was their early
stuff, and just go away.

 

[RockNRollDawgie]

Ooops.......posted twice

 

[djerdap]

who on earth discusses the longetivity of an album that isn't even half a decade old???
and if you would like to discuss this than at least look at some of the facts we do have - like airplay - and acknowledge that this album is still more popular than Zooropa and POP combined


Damn... I PRAY that you were being sarcastic here...
WHO CARES about airplay? Just because Beautiful Day was on radio and MTV about thousand times in late 2000, doesn't mean it was the best song ever!

 

[U2girl]

I think both POP and ATYCLB have its moments lyrically, but I'm under the impression people were more touched by the latter lyrics - not every song needs to be brain surgery. (and, likely, by Bono's vocals on the last album - he hasn't been as passionate since the 80's) And if I have to choose, I take songwriting over bleeps and various loops and sound effects anytime.

It's just different - if POP (and 90's U2) was smart, metaphore (BTW - you did NOT take "a mole digging in a hole" literally did you? or, did you consider the rastafarian theory on Elevation lyrics?) rich, ATYCLB (or 80's U2) was more direct, and straightforward. Nothing wrong with either of that.

The flaw of POP is, IMO, it tried to be an upgraded version of AB. (same goes for the tour, tried to upstage Zoo TV) Only it didn't work and it backfired. It is too fragmented, too - you have dance songs (first three), straightforward rock songs (IGWSHA, SATS, LNOE, Gone, Please, WUDM) and the "out there" songs. (Miami, PM, IYWTVD). Irony or not, the tour outfits looked redicioulus, the band sound (especially Edge) was weird, and last but not least, Bono sounds tired and weak on the album.

I do like about half of the songs on POP, but can you see where I'm getting at?

*edit* Never mind lyrics though, a song either grabs you or it doesn't.

 

[RademR]

ATYCLB was a great album, and compared to the total junk that was coming out at the time, its a masterpiece. I thought that the group's return to basics was great, although I loved POP.

"Kite" has become on of my favorite u2 tunes, and "B-Day" is a great hit. The problem was "B-Day", "Stuck", and "Elevation" also "Walk On"after 9/11 got played too much on the radio, so they got a little bit played out. I enjoyed "In a Little While" "New York", the simplicity of "Grace," great tracks. A great album. The only song that I never got into was "Peace on Earth". I could appreciate it, but just a little sappy for me.

You're most critical about the things you love. I feel like I'm u2's biggest critic, and biggest fan. Whenver they release something new, I dissect every aspect of it, from bassline to lyrics. And I always come out satisfied.

 

[Salome]

As much as I love ATYCLB (it's a very good album), I must admit that lyrically it doesn't have a song that can touch some of the genius of Pop.

now that is something I do agree with

the best lyrical bits on POP (MOFO, Please and parts of Wake Up Dead Man) are IMO better than the best on ATYCLB (well, even though I think Stuck in a Moment is genius)
perhaps not too strange since ATYCLB seems to be written to convey emotions instead of ideas

the worst bits on POP however (If God will Send ... and The Playboy Mansion have a couple of lines that make me want to yell out for my mammy) are as least as sucky as the worst bits on ATYCLB and both albums seem to have an equal amount of bad lines
still somehow this seems to bother hardly anyone with POP

and rightfully so!
POP is still a very good album even though it has a few weak spots lyrically (I fully agree with U2Girl that it seems they tried too many production styles and they didn't manage to make the album work as a unity though)
neither do I think ATYCLB really suffers more from the bad spots (and yes, "I and I in the sky" is indeed a rastafari reference) on that album
it's still a remarkably uplifting and heartfelt record


in the end neither of them can't touch The Unforgettable Fire
so who cares anyway?

 

[U2Kitten]

Damn... I PRAY that you were being sarcastic here...
WHO CARES about airplay? Just because Beautiful Day was on radio and MTV about thousand times in late 2000, doesn't mean it was the best song ever!

So you don't care about airplay

A song can have a lot of airplay in its day, like boy bands, but they have next to no staying power and will not be played on the radio for years the way the great ones are.

Let's see. How many Backstreet Boys songs from 1999 do you still hear on the radio? How many Bananarama songs from 1985 do you hear often? See, the thing is,

airplay = the song is liked
airplay past its prime= song has longevity

Pop and Zooropa songs (or Boy and October for that matter) have little or no longevity on the airwaves, and very little even in their time compared to other U2 songs (at least on the east coast where I live) But, songs from War, UF, JT, RH and AB are still being played, frequently, on a great number of stations with a variety of formats.

Say what you will about airplay not mattering, airplay means a song is GOOD, extended airplay means the song will live forever. Songs that do not get this are generally not considered as great as songs that do. So there you go.

Now of course you are free to listen to anything you damn well please, but don't try to say that songs that don't get airplay are regarded as highly as songs that do, or that airplay doesn't make some songs declared 'better' than others, because it does.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

who on earth discusses the longetivity of an album that isn't even half a decade old???

LOL, good point.

Originally posted by Salome
(if anyone could explain to me why the lyrics to Elevation would be any worse than those of If God Will Send His Angels ...... well, they'd be wrong! ......... IMO )

I personally stay away from criticizing lyrics, for these two reasons: 1, U2 could write what many would consider the worst lyrics of their career, and they still would be ten thousand times better than mine any day, so I personally feel I'd have no room to criticize.

2, yes, some of the lyrics may seem goofy to some people, such as those of "Elevation" that a few refer to, but come on, we need fun, nonsensical songs every now and again. I love the deeper lyrics U2 have written as much as the next person, but I also love the not-so-serious ones, too.

Originally posted by U2girl
I don't see how "it's too poppy (U2 is just as much WOWY as it is The fly)/safe (U2 was never afraid of being in the mainstream)?)/boring(this one wasn't about experimenting, so this argument doesn't really fly)" suddenly equals "it's a bad album". We still haven't heard a valid reason why it is the most bashed U2 album on this board. Unlike another U2 album we all know, it didn't have problems with selling out venues on tour, it had more hits, better chart success/sales and a bigger appeal to the audience.

(although I do also like that other album we all know ).

Seriously, what's wrong with poppy songs? Pop doesn't just apply to the Britney Spears and the Backstreet Boys of the world.

Angela

 

[djerdap]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight! So, U2Kitten, any song that isn't a single and that doesn't get a lot of airplay is actually "worse" than the ones who get played on the radio all the time. Everybody has their own opinion. You can't prove that a song which is played often on the radio, like Beautiful Day or With or Without You, is better than, let's say, Acrobat(which is one of my favorite songs ever and I never heard it on the radio) or any other U2 song. There isn't some kind of axiom which can say that. Look at other bands, for example Pearl Jam. They have made some extraordinary music in the last 10 years and what songs get airplay? Alive and Jeremy, from their first album. Singles and top 10 hits. Great songs, but they are not their best songs, not even close. The band says that, and 99% of the fans say that too. Airplay means a song is good? That is wrong, man. It simply isn't true.

 

[U2Kitten]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight! So, U2Kitten, any song that isn't a single and that doesn't get a lot of airplay is actually "worse" than the ones who get played on the radio all the time. Everybody has their own opinion. You can't prove that a song which is played often on the radio, like Beautiful Day or With or Without You, is better than, let's say, Acrobat(which is one of my favorite songs ever and I never heard it on the radio) or any other U2 song. There isn't some kind of axiom which can say that. Look at other bands, for example Pearl Jam. They have made some extraordinary music in the last 10 years and what songs get airplay? Alive and Jeremy, from their first album. Singles and top 10 hits. Great songs, but they are not their best songs, not even close. The band says that, and 99% of the fans say that too. Airplay means a song is good? That is wrong, man. It simply isn't true.

No. Ever heard of AOR album oriented rock? There are a lot of non single U2 songs being played on the radio, some I hear more often than the 'hits' from other albums. The stations I listen to have 'deep cuts' weekends where a lot of cool album tracks are played. It's true that AOR is fading out since Clear channel is buying up everything and seems to have a set 'setlist' of classic rock songs, which is sad. Pearl Jam are not played on the radio much anymore for a reason- they are no good anymore to anyone but their followers and hardcore fans. I have not found anything they've done tolerable since "10" I remember when that next album came out with that awful "Daughter" song, and I thought, WTF happened to them? To this day I know people who think they broke up years ago because they don't hear them anymore. Then they find out, oh, they are still around but they suck!

True, a lot of other bands that are on the radio now don't deserve airplay either, but they will not last. Again, this has nothing to do with what YOU like. You are free to like anything you want. I know people who only like indy bands. Whatever. But in general, airplay = better quality music more people enjoy. (not counting current songs which are in heavy rotation) Radio stations, even 'oldies' and 'classic' ones, are in it for money and arbitron ratings, so they want to play songs that appeal to the most fans.

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

Besides, how can one possibly knock an album for its lyrics when it contains the word "intransigence"?

i know! do you have any idea how long it took me to be able to pronounce it right (and in time!) with the song? then i had to find out what the hell it meant!

i think pop has some weak points lyrically, but the good far outweights the bad imo. i don't think the same can be said about atyclb.

 

[anitram]

ATYCLB is a decent album.

On a good day, I would say it is U2's third best. On a bad day, I'd probably say it's their 6th best.

I got into U2 during the AB era, but it's not the "poppy" nature of ATYCLB that makes me not put it on top of the list. It's the fact I feel there are too many throwaway songs in the second half of the CD (+ Elevation) which could be deleted and frankly, I don't think I'd miss 'em.

 

[Zoorock Girl!]

There's far too much debate about this, but I suppose it's to be expected at a U2 message board.

It's an album full of solid songs with the exception of Elevation, which in my opinion is just awful.

Aside from that, All That You Can't Leave Behind is full of songs that though may not be "exciting" to everyone, still consist of solid songwriting.

And there are some good tunes! Beautiful Day, Kite, and In A Little While are very, very good songs.

 

[U2girl]

i think pop has some weak points lyrically, but the good far outweights the bad imo.

That can/should be said for any album, by anyone. Even the weakest spots on ATYCLB are easily ahead of Miami.

I think that airplay (maybe even more than sales) is a sign of a good song, especially years and years after it's been released. Following the logic that songs with most airplay are the weakest, then Joshua tree songs are their worst material.

 

[Zoorock Girl!]

This whole "airplay" arguement is ridiculous. 99 per cent of the bands I listen to aren't played on the radio, and that obviously doesn't diminish their greatness to me.

I would also like to take the time to point out that my opinions are also always right... i kid, i kid...