What is un-challenging music?

[rjhbonovox]

I believe POP had a lot of repetive moments such as choruses or phrases repeated ad nauseum.

So is repetition a bad thing? Dance music, techno, hip hop, etc... repetition isn't looked down upon. Repetition, be it musically or lyrically is taken advantage of in a lot of that type of music and I believe people accept that kind of material as good stuff.

And your telling me after one or two listens to the POP album you could singalong to any chorus off them songs. No way. But you could off the last 2 albums.

My brother walked into the room while ABOY was playing and started singing along to the song straight away, and kinda laughing, as if to say "nice pop tune" heheheeh and I just had to agree.

 

[Axver]

And your telling me after one or two listens to the POP album you could singalong to any chorus off them songs. No way. But you could off the last 2 albums.

Yeah, Last Night On Earth and Gone have such hard choruses ...

 

[Flying FuManchu]

Unchallenging music is pop fluff, ear candy produced by record studios for the mindless MTV masses.

Anyone with a brain can tell you that U2 does not make that. Challenging music makes you think and feel, which is basically what U2's all about. Now just as much as ever.

Didn't Adam say in an interview, that U2 sort of shelved the Chris Thomas material b/c it lacked "hits?" Hits = trying to appeal to the masses IMO.

Challenging music = subjective? That's the impression I get b/c even "crap" music touches people and makes them think and feel. I know people hate Creed here but I'm sure there are many people out there who got really into the lyrics of Stapp and it made them think and feel all the same as a U2 fan thinking and feeling for say SYCMIOYO. I know so having read other boards where "crap" bands have touched a fan's life. Hell, that MTV show Fanatic comes to mind (Quotes such as, "Your songs changed my life, blah blah blah...").

 

[FullonEdge2]

And your telling me after one or two listens to the POP album you could singalong to any chorus off them songs. No way. But you could off the last 2 albums.

My brother walked into the room while ABOY was playing and started singing along to the song straight away, and kinda laughing, as if to say "nice pop tune" heheheeh and I just had to agree.

Last Night on Earth has a simple chorus. Heck, I'd start listing songs from Pop, but I'm realizing that almost every song U2 has written has a chorus.

And, every song ever made has some sort of repetition. Otherwise, it wouldn't be music; it would be incoherent noise.

 

[rjhbonovox]

Yeah, Last Night On Earth and Gone have such hard choruses ...

Ahhh but you have picked just 2 songs, and 2 songs that were meant to be singles even though Gone wasn't. On HTDAAB I am talking about all the songs that have easy listening choruses, except for track 4 which is the best song on the album, and you know why this is the best song on the album, cos you don't get some damn chorus going around and around in your head for 3 days after listening to it.

 

[Flying FuManchu]

And your telling me after one or two listens to the POP album you could singalong to any chorus off them songs. No way. But you could off the last 2 albums.

My brother walked into the room while ABOY was playing and started singing along to the song straight away, and kinda laughing, as if to say "nice pop tune" heheheeh and I just had to agree.

Yes... choruses are hooky by nature... are they not?

I'll add two more off the type of my head... Wake Up Dead Man, Please,...

Do Feel Loved also repeats in the same way as ABOY does it not?

 

[rjhbonovox]

Yes... choruses are hooky by nature... are they not?

I'll add two more off the type of my head... Wake Up Dead Man, Please,...

Do Feel Loved also repeats in the same way as ABOY does it not?

Does it hell. Do you feel loved has more going on in that song than bloody ABOY! All Because of you sounds like a million other songs for example Desire where as Do you feel loved doesn't sound like anything else they have done.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Challenging music = subjective? That's the impression I get b/c even "crap" music touches people and makes them think and feel. I know people hate Creed here but I'm sure there are many people out there who got really into the lyrics of Stapp and it made them think and feel all the same as a U2 fan thinking and feeling for say SYCMIOYO. I know so having read other boards where "crap" bands have touched a fan's life. Hell, that MTV show Fanatic comes to mind (Quotes such as, "Your songs changed my life, blah blah blah...").

Thank. You. Everyone has their own ideas of what is and isn't good music, there's no universal agreement of what sucks and what doesn't, and it bugs me when anybody in the world tries to act like there is a universal agreement about that. Britney Spears' music doesn't do much for me, but for somebody else, it means something. Great. That's wonderful.

I personally consider music that makes you think with its profound lyrics, songs in which the music changes up throughout, to be challenging. But any songs that don't make me think, that stay the same the whole way through-they're not challenging by my definition, but that doesn't automatically mean that they're bad songs, either. I love songs that make me think about stuff and songs that do unpredictable things musically, but there's also days I just need a simple, fun, goofy, pointless song, too-I've come across people in my lifetime who think that any simple, non-profound, goofy pointless songs are automatically bad songs, and I'm sorry, I just don't agree with that belief at all. I have CDs that are full of serious songs, and CDs that are full of happy songs, and CDs that have a mix of both. There's nothing wrong with being serious, but for god's sake, people need to smile and have fun every once in a while, too.

Angela

 

[Flying FuManchu]

I'm also of the mind that "un-challenging music" does not = crap music.

However, I'd like to have a clear idea of what are the requirements for a song to be considered challenging or un-challenging that makes sense to me.

 

[rjhbonovox]

A song that takes more than 2 listens to get into it and on repeated listening does not get boring. Example anything from the 90's U2 (AB/Zooropa/Pop) and from Radioheads Ok Computer/kid A/hail to the thief and also U2 80's(UF/Joshua Tree/Rattle & Hum) Challenging music to listen to. Music that does not get boring after repeated listening.

 

[Flying FuManchu]

A song that takes more than 2 listens to get into it and on repeated listening does not get boring. Example anything from the 90's U2 (AB/Zooropa/Pop) and from Radioheads Ok Computer/kid A/hail to the thief and also U2 80's(UF/Joshua Tree/Rattle & Hum) Challenging music to listen to. Music that does not get boring after repeated listening.

But doesn't that description come back to being something under your own subjective whim?

 

[Aygo]

HTDAAB boring??? Where are you at?!! As we say in portuguese: "Vai-te elucidar!" or "Go, and clearify your mind!", please!
HTDAAB is one of the best things (to me U2's best album!) the guys brought to us... Is pure U2. There isn't a song that you can't say "this is not U2"

 

[u2granny]

Maybe "unchallenging" isn't the right word to use. Music can be painful to listen to but hardly unchallenging.

 

[Axver]

A song that takes more than 2 listens to get into it and on repeated listening does not get boring. Example anything from the 90's U2 (AB/Zooropa/Pop) and from Radioheads Ok Computer/kid A/hail to the thief and also U2 80's(UF/Joshua Tree/Rattle & Hum) Challenging music to listen to. Music that does not get boring after repeated listening.

Why is a song good if it takes repeated listens to really get into it? I'd rather a song that I can instantly see is brilliant and only appreciate more with every listen, i.e. Streets, Bad, COBL.

 

[rjhbonovox]

HTDAAB boring??? Where are you at?!! As we say in portuguese: "Vai-te elucidar!" or "Go, and clearify your mind!", please!
HTDAAB is one of the best things (to me U2's best album!) the guys brought to us... Is pure U2. There isn't a song that you can't say "this is not U2"

Therein lies the problem for me with the last 2 albums, to quote you "There isn't a song that you can't say this is not U2", mmmm predicatable and unimaginative comes to mind. When I said to someone the other day that U2 have lost that knack of saying it differently, being different to other bands and moving on to another level, he then pointed out that maybe you need to listen to another band. Maybe this is the case, cos from the last 2 albums I don't hear the exciting, fresh sounds that they used to come up with, with each new album. Maybe they are just too old to make fresh and exciting music.

 

[grbounds]

A song that takes more than 2 listens to get into it and on repeated listening does not get boring. Example anything from the 90's U2 (AB/Zooropa/Pop) and from Radioheads Ok Computer/kid A/hail to the thief and also U2 80's(UF/Joshua Tree/Rattle & Hum) Challenging music to listen to. Music that does not get boring after repeated listening.

Radiohead post- OK computer is all HORRIBLY boring. and rattle and hum takes no time to get into. Angel of Harlem, All I Want is You, Desire.....all instantly catchy....

 

[MrBrau1]

Therein lies the problem for me with the last 2 albums, to quote you "There isn't a song that you can't say this is not U2", mmmm predicatable and unimaginative comes to mind. When I said to someone the other day that U2 have lost that knack of saying it differently, being different to other bands and moving on to another level, he then pointed out that maybe you need to listen to another band. Maybe this is the case, cos from the last 2 albums I don't hear the exciting, fresh sounds that they used to come up with, with each new album. Maybe they are just too old to make fresh and exciting music.

You say predictable, I say playing to their strengths. I like U2 sounding like U2.

 

[Flying FuManchu]

Maybe "unchallenging" isn't the right word to use. Music can be painful to listen to but hardly unchallenging.

Right. I believe so.

 

[Saracene]

I'm unsure whether "challenging" is a word you can fix to any particular type of music. It depends so much on what sort of music you're used to listening; some people would find it really hard to get into, say, Russian folk music or traditional Middle Eastern even after a gazillion listens. There is a lot of music out there that is niche and just doesn't appeal to a wide circle - "idiosyncratic", "acquired taste", "not really my cup of tea". I find it really hard to listen to most of jazz music, whereas my Dad's girlfriend who grew up listening to jazz and classical can't take in Led Zeppelin.

Perhaps "challenging" for some people has another meaning: the artists producing music that their listening public doesn't expect of them, that makes a departure from their previous work, that challenges perceptions. I guess I can see some truth in this, except that these turnarounds can produce crap music as well as great music, and don't most artists, good ones and bad ones, evolve in some way anyway? Is there any real value to the word "challenging" if all this means is that the artist has done something they didn't to before?

 

[dudeman]

'challenging' plays to snootiness. i know something about this because i'm guilty of it. that sort of snobbery is the type of shit that keeps millions of american college-age youth from fully exploring early era beatles while completely masturbating over the white album. you wanna talk fluff?? how about 'a hard day's night'? fucking brilliant - FUN!
for me, 'miracle drug' hooked me the minute i heard it's suggestion on that crazy beach bootleg. if it's unchallenging fluff, so be it. it feels goooooood!

 

[BrownEyedBoy]

Although it is very unchallenging to listen to it I bet the boys had their work cut-out coming up with it ...so would any other musician.

It's a good album. What more do you want?

 

[TheRat]

Here's my opinion.

U2's new music is unchallenging. It's an album to throw on in the car for a long drive. I couldn't see much depth in their new cd aside from Love and Peace..., City Of Blinding Lights and Original Of The Species.

In my experience, Unchallenging music is the stuff that you listen to an love. It makes an incredible impression the first time you hear it and you love it, but that impression fades after awhile and you'll never be able to get the feelings you had the first time you heard the song back. Example: U2's last two albums, Matthew Good's latest album, The majority of Zeppelin's more popular songs/singles (Immigrant Song, Stairway, Fool In The Rain), Pop music, the majority of commercially released singles these days.

Challenging music requires time for you to find the hooks. It can be impenetrable, but once the songs work for you, they make an incredible lasting impression. They never become boring, because there's always new, buried details to discover. Examples: Yes in the 1970's, My Bloody Valentine, Post-The Bends era Radiohead, Pink Floyd, The Second Half of The Joshua Tree, Concept Albums/Rock Operas.

I prefer challenging music, that's what gives me the most satisfaction. Even so, there is still a reason why I paid over $100 to see U2 in April, and that's because they're damn good at what they do nowadays.

 

[Saracene]

Isn't it possible to have both? IMO a song can have completely obvious hooks -and- have a lasting impression. Some of my favourite songs I loved at first listen; some have unfolded slowly, but for me the joy is always about returning and anticipating those familiar hooks, whether or not it took a long time to discover them.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Isn't it possible to have both? IMO a song can have completely obvious hooks -and- have a lasting impression. Some of my favourite songs I loved at first listen; some have unfolded slowly, but for me the joy is always about returning and anticipating those familiar hooks, whether or not it took a long time to discover them.

Exactly. There's some U2 songs that have grabbed me right away ("Angel Of Harlem"), and there's some that took a few listens ("All I Want Is You", if you can believe that)-not saying I hated those that took a few listens upon first hearing them, it just took a while for me to really adjust to the different sound and everything, and once I did, I really began to appreciate them the more I heard them. The same thing applies to many other bands I like. And there's songs from both of those camps that I love to this very day.

Angela

 

[jick]

Unchallenging music is music that requires no effort to play or perform.

Generally, music that are riddled with synths and drum machines are unchallenging. Take R&B/Pop artists for example, they are basically just singers to a pre-programmed backing track.

When Madonna went techno with her Ray Of Light, how much of her music was actually created by her? How much of the electronic beats were programmed by her? Most likely she just sang the song.

A challenging song challenges not only the artist but also the listener. When you put some pre-programmed jungle bass sounds that isn't even hand played, add a double tracked drum track the sprinkle it with you best 2LiveCrew impersonation with lyrics like "mother fucking, sugar shopping rock and roll" - then you get a very unchallenging song.

Put a drum loop, no instruments and just sing "Miami my mami" then you don't get a challenging song. For U2, their challenging songs let all the band members use their full potential.

That is why I think POP is U2's most unchallenging album to date. I can't blame them for not being up to the challenge - they were pressed for time.

Take a song like Stuck In A Moment. It challenges the listener to reconcile a seemingly uplifting melody with the concept of suicide. The lyrics, the message, the melody and the music all seem to contradict. The band created this challenge for themselves and for the listeners.

Vertigo is another challenging track. Mullen has to play into breakneck tempo like he has never played since the 80's, while Edge plays the guitar as if his fingers will bleed. Clayton has the groove moving up and down, while Bono is singing pre-90s Bono trying to convince the listener "I can feeeel".

How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb is full of challenging music, unlike the challenge-deficient POP. The band challenged themselves to play at a different level, and the listeners were challenged to try to absorb what they were up to. We now live in a world where people love challenge. The world of reality TV shows, and Fear Factor dares. Challenge is something that fascinates everyone now. And U2 intentionally made challenging music with HTDAAB to give the audience something to attempt to "conquer" or "understand" or whatever else you call it. If unchallenging U2 music like POP was released today, it probably wouldn't even reach platinum. Do the Chemical Brothers and Prodigy still sell today? No because they bore the listeners by not playing real challenging hand played music. It sure is easy to make music from one's laptop. Little challenge involved especially the new music effects and music make software that is idiot proof.

Cheers,

J

 

[TheRat]

You've got to be joking.

 

[roy]

Yep they maybe not quite as bad as the pop shite about but they are not far off with their newer material. Tracks such as SYCMIOYO/ All Because of you/A man and a woman/cobl/ stuck in a moment/ elevation, are bordering on the throwaway pop music genre.

And
Some Days Are Better Than Others,
Babyface,
Ultra Violet,
WGRYWH,
MW &
Playboy Mansion are not 'throwaway' pop songs.

How on earth can you describe SYCMIOYO as bordering on a throwaway pop sog.

You are a wind-up merchant..

 

[rjhbonovox]

Unchallenging music is music that requires no effort to play or perform.

Generally, music that are riddled with synths and drum machines are unchallenging. Take R&B/Pop artists for example, they are basically just singers to a pre-programmed backing track.

When Madonna went techno with her Ray Of Light, how much of her music was actually created by her? How much of the electronic beats were programmed by her? Most likely she just sang the song.

A challenging song challenges not only the artist but also the listener. When you put some pre-programmed jungle bass sounds that isn't even hand played, add a double tracked drum track the sprinkle it with you best 2LiveCrew impersonation with lyrics like "mother fucking, sugar shopping rock and roll" - then you get a very unchallenging song.

Put a drum loop, no instruments and just sing "Miami my mami" then you don't get a challenging song. For U2, their challenging songs let all the band members use their full potential.

That is why I think POP is U2's most unchallenging album to date. I can't blame them for not being up to the challenge - they were pressed for time.

Take a song like Stuck In A Moment. It challenges the listener to reconcile a seemingly uplifting melody with the concept of suicide. The lyrics, the message, the melody and the music all seem to contradict. The band created this challenge for themselves and for the listeners.

Vertigo is another challenging track. Mullen has to play into breakneck tempo like he has never played since the 80's, while Edge plays the guitar as if his fingers will bleed. Clayton has the groove moving up and down, while Bono is singing pre-90s Bono trying to convince the listener "I can feeeel".

How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb is full of challenging music, unlike the challenge-deficient POP. The band challenged themselves to play at a different level, and the listeners were challenged to try to absorb what they were up to. We now live in a world where people love challenge. The world of reality TV shows, and Fear Factor dares. Challenge is something that fascinates everyone now. And U2 intentionally made challenging music with HTDAAB to give the audience something to attempt to "conquer" or "understand" or whatever else you call it. If unchallenging U2 music like POP was released today, it probably wouldn't even reach platinum. Do the Chemical Brothers and Prodigy still sell today? No because they bore the listeners by not playing real challenging hand played music. It sure is easy to make music from one's laptop. Little challenge involved especially the new music effects and music make software that is idiot proof.

Cheers,

J

This is a BIG joke! A POP hater, if ever there was one. Mofo as an example of unchallenging music, yeah that fuc#er is instantly singalong. Also it was u2's most unchallenging song to do????? I remember The Edge saying he had listened to Mofo hundreds of times over trying to get the song right. So if thats unchallenging then I'm an idiot.

Oh and yes Roy, I do feel that SYCMIOYO is throwaway pop music, created for the singles market by a group obsessed to be number one in the hit parade! Still at least its worked!

 

[roy]

Oh and yes Roy, I do feel that SYCMIOYO is throwaway pop music

Thanks for comfirming my suspicions about you. How does that dire song off AB go:

'You're clueless but your honest'..

 

[jick]

The grave misconception here is that just because a music is singalong it is automatically unchallenging. That argument is flawed.

I guess those rap metal or death metal bands are challenging music to some people here because they aren't singalong if you follow the flawed argument.

Challenging music offers challenge to the songwriter, the audience, and the artist - in the songwriting, songplaying, lyrical interpretation and various other aspects. They are usually songs that call for an interaction with the audience and for some sort of participation.

It is actually much easier to make an non-singalong song compared to a singalong song. One can effortlessly create a non-singalong song.

Cheers,

J