U2's quest for the 'perfect pop song' -- new album talk continued

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Alternative has to be the most useless genre tag around. At least indie rock can be objectively limited to rock bands on indie labels (however useful that distinction may be), whereas all too often alternative rock bands are merely the rock alternative to top 40 pop. So basically that's any music played on modern rock stations. Out of Time and Nevermind being listed as alternative was part of what diluted that genre/scene to the point of futility, much like Black Keys and The Shins being called indie is hilarious now.

I guess I agree that Zooropa being listed as alternative rock was a good idea at the time. It was promoted with a VHS single, for fuck's sake.
 
gvox said:
I think the irony of bringing Pop into this discussion is that Pop was almost a "fuck it" to U2 fans themselves, the ones who would - and predictably did - drop off as a result of them going so far into the electronic direction. Fast forward 10+ years and they try it again with NLOTH and we still slag on them. They're not fucking up the mainstream as much as fucking up their own fan base...and we never fail to disappoint!

They did it with HTDAAB also, it's basically just another album of them making the music that they want to make. I don't think an argument that they sit around trying to write songs that the average U2 fan will like has much merit to it at all, frankly.

I believe less and less that they give a flying fuck what we think, which is maybe even sometimes why they are releasing what they are.

I mean, how else do you explain a track like SUC or Crazy Tonight? I'd be willing to bet every single last penny I have that at least one person said "the fans are gonna HATE this track" and then someone else said "FUCK the fans! I love this track!!"

Now that's balls! :D


(and ftr, I wouldn't change that about them, either. They've come up with some really great stuff, so I take the good with the bad)
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The biggest irony is in that "mainstream" comment made at the Grammys. Almost as much as that other oft abused quote about "we might lose some of the pop kids".

Anyway. There was, once they started making waves and getting a little more known with War, never a record where U2 wouldn't care about reception (and I don't mean "let's put Pride so people can swallow that Elvis track" or "let's put SATS so people can swallow Mofo"), despite the nerly epic efforts to portray it otherwise. At least post JT (and even earlier with UF) every album is a reaction to what the audience thought about the previous album.
 
Jive Turkey said:
At that time, REM was truer to what Alternative meant. It didn't used to be a sound. It was a genuine alternative to popular top 40 music and nothing more. Kind of like how 'Indie' doesn't come close to meaning what it used to mean. I know you already know this (hence the zooropa comment), just thought I'd point it out
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I don't think so. They'd been on Warner Bros. since previous album Green (which sounded pretty slick and major label compared to its predecessors), and Losing My Religion was getting played on Top 40, Adult Contemporary, you name it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was a bigger hit than One.

So it's safe to say that Out Of Time, while not selling quite as many copies as Achtung Baby, wasn't an alternative to anything, unless we're talking about Shiny Happy People being an alternative to good music, or music that doesn't make you want to puncture your eardrums. It was a mainstream success.
 
Residue, bro.

But my point was in response to the comment about sounding alternative. At the very least, the word 'alternative' at that point didn't mean a sound (or was transitioning between the two definitions). It was still just a reference point to top 40.
 
LemonMelon said:
Alternative has to be the most useless genre tag around. At least indie rock can be objectively limited to rock bands on indie labels (however useful that distinction may be), whereas all too often alternative rock bands are merely the rock alternative to top 40 pop. So basically that's any music played on modern rock stations. Out of Time and Nevermind being listed as alternative was part of what diluted that genre/scene to the point of futility, much like Black Keys and The Shins being called indie is hilarious now.

I guess I agree that Zooropa being listed as alternative rock was a good idea at the time. It was promoted with a VHS single, for fuck's sake.
Click to expand...

I don't see how the original definition of alternative is any less retarded than the original definition of indie. Neither does anything to actually describe the kind of music being played. Genre labels in general are overused to the point of ridiculousness. When only two bands fall into a category, maybe it's not actually a genre. I shudder to think what genre labels would be slapped on some older acts had they come out today.

The Smiths - Mope Pop
Bing Crosby - Crooncore
Hall & Oates - Buddy Rock
AC/DC - Bogancore
 
Von Schloopen said:
U2 are a mainstream, commercial rock band, a la The Beatles, The Clash, etc. They've always had major focus on the "pop" song in their songs. That's never changed and never will change. That's a part of their gauge of greatness as well. How could it not be when they nursed up on The Beatles, The Clash, etc? A lot of the criticism I hear is usually based on attitude. Seems very "high school" to me.

They actually don't get enough credit for how much the play around and experiment, all within the realm of the mainstream, commercial pop song. They have a fantastic talent for that. They always have. Just like The Beatles, The Clash, etc. They're a great band.

Saturday I sat on the porch and let library shuffle on U2 for hours (which is a fantastic thing by the way.) I can't think of many band's whose catalog has the multiple personalities of U2 whist keeping to this very identifiable and curious core. "I Will Follow" running into "Love Rescue Me" then "White As Snow" is a hell of a thing. So many different, and most importantly, brilliant, colours, and tones there. All with their own energy. We're at the gravy point folks. Most of this band's work is behind them. Anything we get now is gravy.

gravy:drool:

Also, smoke a ton of grass and listen to NLOTH in reverse order. That is all.
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I think this is the most sensible thing that's ever been posted here. Especially the last comment.

A few years ago I put every U2 song on my mp3 player and had no other music, out it on shuffle and was blown away by how few duds they have. And it's true that they don't get enough credit for experimenting within the parameters of the pop song. Neither do the Beatles, or the Clash...though those guys ventured away from the song a bit on Santanista! Smoke a ton of grass and listen to that monster backwards!

I think that the only problem have with U2 in regards to the mainstream is when they seem to pander to it instead of doing their thing and just finding themselves there.

Everything from here on is definitely gravy, which is why I don't really care or expect them do make another great album or reinvent themselves. All I hope for is a few songs that I really like. Of course, it would be rad if they made a record as good as "Clockwork Angels"...how the fuck are Rush almost 60???
 
I have never been a Rush fan. But the other night I had nothing else to do and some show came on TV about the history of Rush. And I liked it. :ohmy: Actually what I found I liked the best was the guys themselves and their relationship as a band. They're funny, and they reminded me a lot of U2 in that sense. Being together as a band since high school and all. :cute:

Edit to say sorry, that was totally OT. I don't think Rush ever went on the quest for the perfect pop song. At least not what I gather from that show!
 
Spirit of the Radio and Limelight are the two Rush songs I really dig.

Even if they all sounded like that though, I wouldn't understand why this shit keeps happening though.
 
What these guys said, and also

Tom Sawyer
YYZ
Time Stands Still
Working Man
Red Barchetta

there's tons more obviously, but in general most would find the ones we listed their most 'accessible' I guess you could call it..
 
ok, so now that's outta the way..

let's talk new songs!

here's a new song I never want to hear again:

Glastonbury

Thanks :up:
 
Registered Dude said:
ok, so now that's outta the way..

let's talk new songs!

here's a new song I never want to hear again:

Glastonbury

Thanks :up:
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Good lord that song is abhorrent
 
The thing about "Glastonbury" is that U2 only played it about 6ish times, and dropped it and never attempted it again, not even at their actual Glastonbury apperance a year later. Something tells me they don't like it either.
 
The_acrobat said:
The thing about "Glastonbury" is that U2 only played it about 6ish times, and dropped it and never attempted it again, not even at their actual Glastonbury apperance a year later. Something tells me they don't like it either.
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that is encouraging..
 
The_acrobat said:
The thing about "Glastonbury" is that U2 only played it about 6ish times, and dropped it and never attempted it again, not even at their actual Glastonbury apperance a year later. Something tells me they don't like it either.
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Which is indeed encouraging. I don't mind them making shit as long as they eventually realize that it's shit, preferably before releasing it.
 
I haven't heard anything worth keeping since Soon, personally.

Even the much-touted Every Breaking Wave was underwhelming. Though I imagine it will have more instrumentation in any recorded version.
 
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