Joshua_Tree_Hugger
Refugee
...All that said U2 have a VERY big following in Europe. It is a wonder that they don't add some more dates to the European legs of their tours.
U2's Next Tour: Stay Small or Go Big
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For Comparison, lets compare POPMART New York City Area shows to ZOO TV.
ZOO TV:
March 9, 1992. Uniondale, NY, Nassau Coliseum
ATTENDANCE: 17,397 SELLOUTS: 1
March 18, 1992 East Rutherford, NJ, Meadowlands Arena
ATTENDANCE: 19,880 SELLOUTS: 1
March 20, 1992 New York, NY, Madison Square Garden
ATTENDANCE: 18,179 SELLOUTS: 1
March 21, 1992 Albany, NY, Knickerbocker Arena
ATTENDANCE: 16,258 SELLOUTS: 1
August 12, 13, 1992 East Rutherford, NJ, GIANTS STADIUM
ATTENDANCE: 109,000 SELLOUTS: 2
August 29, 30, 1992 New York, NY, YANKEE STADIUM
ATTENDANCE: 104,100 SELLOUTS: 2
Thats 284,814 tickets sold in the New York area on ZOO TV!
POPMART New York Area Shows:
May 31, June 1, 3, 1997 East Rutherford, NJ, GIANTS STADIUM
ATTENDANCE: 129,644 (Capacity set at 140,000) SELLOUTS: 0
Total New York area attendance for POPMART was 129,644.
Detroit Area ZOO TV and POPMART shows:
ZOO TV:
March 27, 1992 Detroit, MI, Palace Of Auburn Hills
ATTENDANCE: 21,064 SELLOUTS: 1
September 9, 1992 Pontiac, MI, Silverdome
ATTENDANCE: 36,740 (Capacity set at 40,680) SELLOUTS: 0
Total Detroit area Attendance on ZOO TV 57,804
POPMART:
October 31, 1997 Pontiac, MI, Silverdome
ATTENDANCE: 35,463 (Capacity set at 40,000) SELLOUTS: 0
Detroit POPMART area attendance 35,463.
A side note, when Led Zeppelin played the Silver Dome in 1978, the ATTENDANCE was 78,000 and the concert was a sellout. Obviously there were no seats on the floor. Tickets were 10 dollars and 15 dollars. Remember thats 1978 dollars, today that might be 30 dollars and 45 dollars.
ZOO TV:
March 9, 1992. Uniondale, NY, Nassau Coliseum
ATTENDANCE: 17,397 SELLOUTS: 1
March 18, 1992 East Rutherford, NJ, Meadowlands Arena
ATTENDANCE: 19,880 SELLOUTS: 1
March 20, 1992 New York, NY, Madison Square Garden
ATTENDANCE: 18,179 SELLOUTS: 1
March 21, 1992 Albany, NY, Knickerbocker Arena
ATTENDANCE: 16,258 SELLOUTS: 1
August 12, 13, 1992 East Rutherford, NJ, GIANTS STADIUM
ATTENDANCE: 109,000 SELLOUTS: 2
August 29, 30, 1992 New York, NY, YANKEE STADIUM
ATTENDANCE: 104,100 SELLOUTS: 2
Thats 284,814 tickets sold in the New York area on ZOO TV!
POPMART New York Area Shows:
May 31, June 1, 3, 1997 East Rutherford, NJ, GIANTS STADIUM
ATTENDANCE: 129,644 (Capacity set at 140,000) SELLOUTS: 0
Total New York area attendance for POPMART was 129,644.
Detroit Area ZOO TV and POPMART shows:
ZOO TV:
March 27, 1992 Detroit, MI, Palace Of Auburn Hills
ATTENDANCE: 21,064 SELLOUTS: 1
September 9, 1992 Pontiac, MI, Silverdome
ATTENDANCE: 36,740 (Capacity set at 40,680) SELLOUTS: 0
Total Detroit area Attendance on ZOO TV 57,804
POPMART:
October 31, 1997 Pontiac, MI, Silverdome
ATTENDANCE: 35,463 (Capacity set at 40,000) SELLOUTS: 0
Detroit POPMART area attendance 35,463.
A side note, when Led Zeppelin played the Silver Dome in 1978, the ATTENDANCE was 78,000 and the concert was a sellout. Obviously there were no seats on the floor. Tickets were 10 dollars and 15 dollars. Remember thats 1978 dollars, today that might be 30 dollars and 45 dollars.
Blue Room,
Realize that promoters sometimes spread out seating selling tickets at the back and front of the Stadium at the same time and hold back other tickets in between until those tickets are sold. This is so that when ticket sells begin to dry up, your left with enough people in all parts of the stadium to cover up foor seats that are not sold. This tactic is used all the time when achieving a sellout is either not possible or an up hill battle. But the Boxscore statistics don't lie. In any event, I did see people on the upper deck at the Silver Dome for ZOO TV on the MTV Awards GARTH/U2 Live thing. I've got that on tape. Don't know if the entire upper deck was full, but it wasn't completely empty from what I saw. What may of happened is that seating was more broadly distributed for the POPMART tour while they really made sure they filled up the entire floor and lower level leaving empty seats on the second level for ZOO TV.
Realize that promoters sometimes spread out seating selling tickets at the back and front of the Stadium at the same time and hold back other tickets in between until those tickets are sold. This is so that when ticket sells begin to dry up, your left with enough people in all parts of the stadium to cover up foor seats that are not sold. This tactic is used all the time when achieving a sellout is either not possible or an up hill battle. But the Boxscore statistics don't lie. In any event, I did see people on the upper deck at the Silver Dome for ZOO TV on the MTV Awards GARTH/U2 Live thing. I've got that on tape. Don't know if the entire upper deck was full, but it wasn't completely empty from what I saw. What may of happened is that seating was more broadly distributed for the POPMART tour while they really made sure they filled up the entire floor and lower level leaving empty seats on the second level for ZOO TV.
The_Acrobat,
"U2 just wasn't as popular as they are now back in those days." Jeez, you make it sound like it was 20 years ago. I think of POPMART as if it was yesterday.
Anyways the statement is correct, but I kind of disagree with your comparisons between Stadiums and Arena's.
Take the New York Area for example. Elevation was an all Arena tour playing to at most 20,000 a night. Realize 4 shows were played early in the year and then again 6 months later. On POPMART the set capacity(which could increase if need be) each night at GIANTS STADIUM was 46,000. All 3 shows were back to back or within a couple of days of each other.
Realize that in every city, there is a group of fans in the thousands perhaps over 10,000 in a city the size of New York who go to MULTIPLE SHOWS. Multiple Show fans make drawing comparisons between Stadium and Arena attendance difficult because Arena's hold at most 20,000 people. If 10,000 or 20,000 people go to multiple shows, you have a large number of people that buy up the available seats each night, forcing casual fans and the general public to go to later shows and often not at all. This makes arena's incredibly easy to sellout in comparison to large Stadiums. You can see how 10,000 or 20,000 people going to multiple shows would have a greater effect on 4 Arena shows in one week as opposed to 3 Stadium shows in one week.
I think U2 could have played twice as many Arena shows on Elevation in New York City as they did. I also think if POPMART had been an Arena Tour that they could have soldout more than 8 Arena New York City Shows as well.
Bottom line, I would certainly conclude that U2s popularity is certainly higher on Elevation than POPMART, but to just counting the number of tickets sold in on an Arena tour compared to a full stadium tour does not produce accurate results.
Los Angeles is another case. 6 20,000 seat shows compared to the one 65,000 Stadium show. Again, there are several unknown factors here. I would say if Arena's were done on POPMART they could have sold out 6 shows easily. The question is, how many of the 65,000 people would be willing to go to mulitple shows. Then how many people would be able to go to one of the 6 arena shows over a two week period rather than a single stadium show on a night that they might not be able to attend. Fans that go to multiple shows plus the opportunity to select different nights to see an artist mean that Selling out multiple Arena shows is often easier than selling out a single Stadium show.
Of course a factor that made Elevation more difficult to sellout was the ticket prices. The Average price on Elevation was 80 dollars compared to 50 dollars on POPMART. In addition, sell ing out seats behind the stage is something Stadium shows don't have to contend with.
"U2 just wasn't as popular as they are now back in those days." Jeez, you make it sound like it was 20 years ago. I think of POPMART as if it was yesterday.
Anyways the statement is correct, but I kind of disagree with your comparisons between Stadiums and Arena's.
Take the New York Area for example. Elevation was an all Arena tour playing to at most 20,000 a night. Realize 4 shows were played early in the year and then again 6 months later. On POPMART the set capacity(which could increase if need be) each night at GIANTS STADIUM was 46,000. All 3 shows were back to back or within a couple of days of each other.
Realize that in every city, there is a group of fans in the thousands perhaps over 10,000 in a city the size of New York who go to MULTIPLE SHOWS. Multiple Show fans make drawing comparisons between Stadium and Arena attendance difficult because Arena's hold at most 20,000 people. If 10,000 or 20,000 people go to multiple shows, you have a large number of people that buy up the available seats each night, forcing casual fans and the general public to go to later shows and often not at all. This makes arena's incredibly easy to sellout in comparison to large Stadiums. You can see how 10,000 or 20,000 people going to multiple shows would have a greater effect on 4 Arena shows in one week as opposed to 3 Stadium shows in one week.
I think U2 could have played twice as many Arena shows on Elevation in New York City as they did. I also think if POPMART had been an Arena Tour that they could have soldout more than 8 Arena New York City Shows as well.
Bottom line, I would certainly conclude that U2s popularity is certainly higher on Elevation than POPMART, but to just counting the number of tickets sold in on an Arena tour compared to a full stadium tour does not produce accurate results.
Los Angeles is another case. 6 20,000 seat shows compared to the one 65,000 Stadium show. Again, there are several unknown factors here. I would say if Arena's were done on POPMART they could have sold out 6 shows easily. The question is, how many of the 65,000 people would be willing to go to mulitple shows. Then how many people would be able to go to one of the 6 arena shows over a two week period rather than a single stadium show on a night that they might not be able to attend. Fans that go to multiple shows plus the opportunity to select different nights to see an artist mean that Selling out multiple Arena shows is often easier than selling out a single Stadium show.
Of course a factor that made Elevation more difficult to sellout was the ticket prices. The Average price on Elevation was 80 dollars compared to 50 dollars on POPMART. In addition, sell ing out seats behind the stage is something Stadium shows don't have to contend with.
Blue Room
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
STING2 said:
I never said the upper deck was completely empty. I said it was almost empty. Look VERY closely at your Detroit footage. You will notice that it is the 2 upper deck sections that are close to the stage have maybe the first 10 rows filled, the rest of the upper deck in those sections and in fact the rest of the stadium was "completely" empty. I was there, in fact I'am right in front the sign on the video that says "Toledo loves Bono". Its neither here nor there really. My whole point is that Popmart is more successful than alot of people give credit for and Zoo was not this instant sellout of every single ticket that alot like to portray it as.
OP
OP
I'd take the Albany stats out of that ZooTV attendance list... Albany's a good 3-4 hour drive from NYC... if you're gonna include Albany you might as well include Philly, Hartford, and even Boston, 'cause they're all within a 4 hour driving radius of NY too. You can keep the Garden, the meadowlands shows (continental/brendan byrne & giants stadium), the hizouse that ruth built, and the infamous nassau veterans memorial coliseum... a building that was out of date even when the Islanders were winning Cups in the early 80s.
Vox02
War Child
Just a question.. what's the distance in hours or miles between East Rutherford ( Giants', Meadowlands ) and New York ( Madison, Yankee Stadium, Nassau Coliseum )??
Thanks!!
Vox!
Thanks!!
Vox!
Salome
you are what you is
hmmm,
I say only play songs from their 80's albums and ATYCLB and - according to recent surveys on this forum - worldwide only 43 people will show up anyway
I say only play songs from their 80's albums and ATYCLB and - according to recent surveys on this forum - worldwide only 43 people will show up anyway
pub crawler
New Yorker
I think they should go for BIG AIR. *insert snowboarder in half-pipe*
The answer will be on the next record.
ZooTV and PopMart went outside essentially because the music and ideas presented by the band were best served by large audiences. ZooTv was about the new world at the time and it HAD to play to the masses.
PopMart was another outdoor deal because the themes were about mass consumerism and excess, inside it wouldn't fit well.
Depending on what the idea is will dictate the venues for the shows. Elevation was indoors because I believe the band when they say they wanted to get back to basics and focus on the music. It was the rock band tour of all time.
U2 are a band but they are also severe artists. What I mean is that everything they do has loads of planning and thought put into it with enough anticipation as to where the audience wants to go and were the world is going at a certain time. They have mastered the art of bottling lightning.
Fuck we should be so lucky to have a band like this around in our lifetime they will go down as the greatest ever.
I think at their age they are better off in arenas. Mainly because they already got our attention and whatever themes and ideas the next album and tour bring we'll be listening.
If you think that the band isn't already in early planning for the next tour then your underestimating their abilities as entertainers and businessmen.
Timing really is everything.
ZooTV and PopMart went outside essentially because the music and ideas presented by the band were best served by large audiences. ZooTv was about the new world at the time and it HAD to play to the masses.
PopMart was another outdoor deal because the themes were about mass consumerism and excess, inside it wouldn't fit well.
Depending on what the idea is will dictate the venues for the shows. Elevation was indoors because I believe the band when they say they wanted to get back to basics and focus on the music. It was the rock band tour of all time.
U2 are a band but they are also severe artists. What I mean is that everything they do has loads of planning and thought put into it with enough anticipation as to where the audience wants to go and were the world is going at a certain time. They have mastered the art of bottling lightning.
Fuck we should be so lucky to have a band like this around in our lifetime they will go down as the greatest ever.
I think at their age they are better off in arenas. Mainly because they already got our attention and whatever themes and ideas the next album and tour bring we'll be listening.
If you think that the band isn't already in early planning for the next tour then your underestimating their abilities as entertainers and businessmen.
Timing really is everything.
Blue Room
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
rymyx said:
I understand what you are trying to say but I have to disagree with a few points.
1. Zoo TV started indoors in arenas. I saw the indoor and outdoor versions and I honestly thought the concept worked better indoors (dont get me wrong, the Outside Broadcast was great also). So I dont think it HAD to play to the masses based on the concept.
2. The concept doesnt necessarily dictate the type of show. Elevation was an arena tour, yet anyone that has seen the Slane footage would have to agree that it would have worked well outside in a large venue also. In fact, they were planning to do this for the summer of 2002 in Europe (outdoor stadium tour). Also the Joshua Tree, Lovetown and Zoo tours all played both types of venues equally well IMO.
3. Also, they had the stage set up all planned out for Popmart before the actual album took shape. The album turned out much darker than they had planned. So the album concept doesnt necessarily dictate the staging in that sense either.
4. Generally U2's tour plans start about 1 1/2 years to a year prior to the actual tour. So if they start in 2004 they may not have even started planning or they may have just started planning the details of the next tour.
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the olive
The Fly
The POPMART miracle city was............................drumroll please...................................Edmonton Alberta! How a city of about 700,000 sold out two 60,000 seat shows is amazing. LA is ten times the size and couldn't even sell out one show! Calgary sold out two Elevation shows as well.
U2 should start/finish tours and film shows in Alberta, clearly they deserve it! And no I don't live there..........
U2 should start/finish tours and film shows in Alberta, clearly they deserve it! And no I don't live there..........
Although the Stadium in Edmonton can hold 60,000 for a concert, U2 reduced capacity and soldout two shows at 45,000 per night for a combined total of 90,000 for the two soldout Edmonton shows.
Los Angeles did sellout its single show though with an attendance of 65,500.
Your general point is an interesting one. U2 is more popular in Canada than in the USA to begin with, with per capita album sales in Canada double that of U2s album sales in the USA. In addition, California on a per capita basis is not U2s most popular state in the USA.
Los Angeles did sellout its single show though with an attendance of 65,500.
Your general point is an interesting one. U2 is more popular in Canada than in the USA to begin with, with per capita album sales in Canada double that of U2s album sales in the USA. In addition, California on a per capita basis is not U2s most popular state in the USA.
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