U2's Musical Experimentation Discussion!

[innocent_eyes]

Inspired by Chizip's thread to facilitate some more interesting and thought provoking threads, I would like to discuss and address a few Issues bothering me about the 'fans' perception of U2's experimentation.

1.) Achtung, Pop, and Zooropa are NOT NOT NOT the only time u2 has experimented with their sound.

U2 started as a punk/new wave influenced band. The leap from their first 3 albums to the Unforgettable fire is very impressive! The atmospherics and song structures really are quite an innovation for the band.

2.) Rattle and Hum was a big experimentation with new influences of American music, country and the blues most specifically, gospel also.

3.) ATYCLB was experimental for the band, though i think the appraoch didn't have giant Lemons, Flys and Devils, it was not so obvious to most U2 fans. They had never really written songs like In a Little While, Elevation, or Wild honey before! IO think the 'goal' was to inject some 'soul' into pop forms of rock music, similar in style to the Beatles...if you see what I'm getting at. They wrote songs that sounded like 'safe lieetle pop tunes' but injected them with meaning and soul.

Bono couldn't have done more to get this across. The Heart Shaped Stage, the word SOUL under his right shoe, screaming, THE GOAL IS SOUL, SOUL, After Beautiful Day....hell, that IS a Lyric in ELEVATION!!! Sounds frivoulous, but upon closer inspection has soul and meaning.

Anyway, just because some didn't enjoy it as much, doesn't make it less unique and experimental.

4.) HTDAAB does what ATYCLB did, but better, and rocked more. U2 has a bit of a more hard sound, Vertigo, Love and PEace or Else, and All Because of You, are in no way, typical U2 songs. Vertigo, mostly because it rocks all the way to hell!! lol

A man and a woman, Fast Cars, and the structure or origional of the species, further the experimental sound of the album even more!

Again, it seems U2 didn't commit the whole album to this new, similar to ATYCLB. Pop and Zoorop, and Achtung, were just more experimental because the entire album was in a similar style.

This is not so bad though, as the tunes that sound U2ish, are well written and they haven't done anything in their own style since before Achtung.

I think they have re-established thier sound, and will likely be able to go into a new musical direction on the following album!

Enjoy, and discuss.....let's not turn this into a Such album is better than such album debate! lol

 

[Lancemc]

GREAT POST.

I agree on my all accounts. One of the biggest peeves I have these days is the labeling of ATYCLb especially as safe (which it may be) standard U2 painting by numbers (which it certainly isn't).

ATYCLB is as unique to U2 as POP or Zooropa is.

 

[U2dork]

I agree that the change in sound/style from War to Unforgettable Fire is more impressive, or drastic, than the Rattle and Hum to Achtung Baby. At least between the latter 2 albums we got a sampling of where the band was going with Night and Day (from the Red, Hot and Blue charity album). As far as I'm aware, there was no transition between War and Unforgettable Fire. If I remember correctly, critics panned the album when it came out criticizing them for taking such a radically different approach.

As for the current sound, I'm not sure where else they can go with this styling before they start to come off as repeating themselves (or even *gasp* an Adult Contemporary band!). I feel that if they want to stay relevant they're going to have to change the sound up a bit for the next album.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

GREAT POST.

I agree on my all accounts. One of the biggest peeves I have these days is the labeling of ATYCLb especially as safe (which it may be) standard U2 painting by numbers (which it certainly isn't).

ATYCLB is as unique to U2 as POP or Zooropa is.

I will second this entire post. Each U2 album brings something different to the table, hence why I can find something to like about them all. I'm guaranteed to not hear the same thing over and over.

Angela

 

[Pero]

Every album is different than than before or any in entire u2 catalog.
Here you named few examples of an album.
Album isn't FEW EXAMPLES from that album, to say something about it you have to look thru whole album.

You'd say that October is different than any album in u2 catalog because in Tomorrow you have some Irish folk(that intro).

U2 experimenting is U2 nineties.
The Unforgettable fire is not nearly or not at all experimenting.
Only thing experimented in TUF is cohesiveness of an entire album!!
Achtung, Zooropa and Pop(not Pop, Zooropa) are not cohesive that much, but have more, much much much more guitar additions(distortions, delay, phaser...).

ATYCLB is not an experimental album. It's pussy album.

Imagine that U2's favourite audience, THE AMERICANS, their highnesses, liked Pop and Popmart. Imagine that.
Then ATYCLB would be experimental.

Songs like LAPOE and other examples were not done before because u2 wouldn't be the best and the biggest band in the world if they would repeat themselves.

Every song is different than another.


Now, about this thread. U2 experimenting is u2 nineties. You said wrong in my opinion.

 

[MumblingBono]

Right on with #1

TUF was the first really sideways swerve by the band, and was more drastically different from War than AB was from Rattle and Hum.

 

[MrBrau1]

ATYCLB is not an experimental album. It's pussy album.

They'd never played with Philly Soul before. And they did on ATYCLB(Stuck).

They'd never play Al Green/Otis Redding inspired R&B before. They did on ATYCLB(IALW).

They'd never played that 60's folk rock thing before. They did on ATYCLB(Wild Honey).


But you know very little about music, so I wouldn't expect you to pick up on these things.

 

[Liesje]

4.) HTDAAB does what ATYCLB did, but better, and rocked more. U2 has a bit of a more hard sound, Vertigo, Love and PEace or Else, and All Because of You, are in no way, typical U2 songs. Vertigo, mostly because it rocks all the way to hell!! lol

A man and a woman, Fast Cars, and the structure or origional of the species, further the experimental sound of the album even more!

HTDAAB is like Pop vs. ATYCLB to me. Love every minute of it.

 

[MacPhistoPT]

In first place, innocent_eyes for this thread.

I agree with many things from Pero's post.

Whenever U2 do something that they never done before they aren't always experimenting. Experimenting means that they go to a unknown place. And, in most of the cases you refered in your thread, they really knew where they were going.

After War they wanted to change something and so they joined with Eno/Lanois, they went to Slane and they started developing a more ambiental sound. They knew what they want.

In R&H, they wanted to explore the roots of american music. They knew what they want.

In AB, they wanted to change their sound again. They know that they had to change to continue to be relevant. Maybe, here they start experimenting until they found their new sound.

Now, here comes Zooropa, the one I think it's the real experimental U2 album. They made AB, they were in the middle of a big tour, and they were fascinated by the studio work. Here, they really experimented!! They didn't know what the studio could bring them. It was all new to them. This album it's the only I think that sounds so different from the rest of their catalogue, every song has it's own special thing, expecting The First Time, a song that almost went out in it's demo form. It was supposed to be remixed by Eno, but it stayed in it's original form.

Now, Pop. Here I don't know what to think. Some experimenting maybe, but the songs are so different from each other... I guess they knew what they want: a dark and faithless album... I'd say that they experimented in some tracks like Miami and Mofo.

And then the last two albuns. Sorry, but here there's no experiment at all IMO. They wanted to make cool songs, good melodies, and some catchy rock songs. They really knew what they want. They also went back and inspired in some 80's stuff. They have some "never seen like that before" songs but they knew what they were going for.

To finish this, let me applaud again your thread and of course this is all my own opinion ONLY.

 

[MacPhistoPT]

They'd never played with Philly Soul before. And they did on ATYCLB(Stuck).

They'd never play Al Green/Otis Redding inspired R&B before. They did on ATYCLB(IALW).

They'd never played that 60's folk rock thing before. They did on ATYCLB(Wild Honey).


But you know very little about music, so I wouldn't expect you to pick up on these things.

Maybe I'm wrong, but as I said in my post, they made something different with those 3 songs but probably they wanted that. They inspired on something. If you pay attention, that songs have those influences but they have something in common: easy and catchy melody.

 

[namkcuR]

MacphistoPT is right.

 

[xtihn]

haha...i agree with much of what MacPhistoPT said too. zooropa is probably their most experimental album...unless you consider passengers.

i would say that every album has some degree of experimentation from the previous one. that's what makes U2 a great band...they keep on developing and evolving themselves (for better or worse).

for me, i think the experimentation that lead to the AB/Zoo/Pop era is the most drastic because it's not just a change in sound, it's a change in content and attitude.

 

[starvinmarvin]

As Xtihn just commented, there is a little bit of experimentation in every U2 album. However, their last all-out experimentation was Zooropa. Pop is similar to Zooropa/Achtung in its electronic aspect, as well as the darker nature of the lyrics, but it's far "safer" than Zooropa. Of course, ATYCLB is not experimental in an obvious sense, although it should be noted that U2 had never before attempted to make soulful pop music, so for the band it was something new. HTDAAB is in the same vein, although perhaps a ittle more rock oriented.

 

[xtihn]

GREAT POST.

I agree on my all accounts. One of the biggest peeves I have these days is the labeling of ATYCLb especially as safe (which it may be) standard U2 painting by numbers (which it certainly isn't).

ATYCLB is as unique to U2 as POP or Zooropa is.

while i don't disagree that ATYCLB is unique TO U2, i can see why some would label this album as "safe" because honestly the songs sound more pop/rock than anything else. this album sounds mainstream. i personally think it's good stuff, but it's very mainstream... and it's hard to categorize something as experimental and unique if it sounds mainstream.

 

[Popmartijn]

As Xtihn just commented, there is a little bit of experimentation in every U2 album. However, their last all-out experimentation was Zooropa. Pop is similar to Zooropa/Achtung in its electronic aspect, as well as the darker nature of the lyrics, but it's far "safer" than Zooropa. Of course, ATYCLB is not experimental in an obvious sense, although it should be noted that U2 had never before attempted to make soulful pop music, so for the band it was something new. HTDAAB is in the same vein, although perhaps a ittle more rock oriented.

Very true.
I think one of the reasons that TUF isn't considered that experimental (while it in fact is, side 2 doesn't have a real song on it, except maybe for Indian Summer Sky) is that in those early years U2 was still looking for a sound, finding their niche. War had hinted at the direction a bit (Drowning Man) and at the same time TUF seemed like a development on War (Pride). So instead of labelling it as U2 experimenting, people said that U2 developed.

Now, after Rattle And Hum, everyone thought that U2 had found their niche. Spiritual stadium rock, bombastic with strong influences from the USA. And then it all changed. Achtung Baby was more electronic, denser, with lots of strange sounds. That they also shed their image of earnest rockers also contributed to this. So in that sense everyone labelled Achtung Baby as experimental. U2 had developed into a supergroup and suddenly they changed again.
And they did it again with Zooropa. This is indeed their most experimental album, to me. Not only did they again cover new grounds for them as a band, but it also expanded the musical playing field a bit. Yes, there's this big influence of mid-Seventies Bowie going 'round (or should that be Eno?), but it's also U2 a lot. Bill Flanagan said it so well in his book At The End Of The World. On Achtung Baby U2 were writing conventional songs, but performing them in an experimental way. On Zooropa U2 had many unconventional songs (structures, etc.) and then making them sound conventional.

After Passengers Pop would initially take this even further. However, midway U2 changed its mind and tried to go back to their comfortable set-up of a rock band. In that sense the album clearly hinges on two ideas, which makes for an interesting listening experience.

For the last 2 albums, U2 turned to conventional song structures. For many this is a huge step back. Others correctly point out that until ATYCLB U2 never had many conventional songs. So in that sense all these verse-chorus-verse songs are new to them. However, with so many artists releasing these kind of songs, it doesn't stand out as much as many other U2 songs.

I'm sure the future will give us more of U2 experimenting. Not just because Larry said so ( ), but also because this is a returning pattern. Every time you think U2 found their niche and are comfortable with a certain style (War, Rattle And Hum, Pop) they change the channel again.

C ya!

Marty

 

[Irishteen]

All U2 albums are different, and are all brillant, people say ATYCLB is mainstream, look at whats mainstream Britiny Spears, Eminem etc. maybe in the 80's U2 would be mainstream but look at todays mainstream and tell me who U2 sound like, if U2 are mainstream, then shouldn't people who like Pop and Rap(Which is mainstream) like U2, wait they hate U2. Can I name one person who is young and doesn't normally listen to rock music, like Vertigo, no. And how many young people like rock, very few. So the idea of U2 trying to capture the youth is a lie. I can only think of 3 people my age, I know who like any of U2's three singles, 2 like Vertigo, 2 like Sometimes, and 1 City(Same guy likes everyone of them. When U2 sellout we will hear them do a duet with a rapper.

 

[MacPhistoPT]

All U2 albums are different, and are all brillant, people say ATYCLB is mainstream, look at whats mainstream Britiny Spears, Eminem etc. maybe in the 80's U2 would be mainstream but look at todays mainstream and tell me who U2 sound like, if U2 are mainstream, then shouldn't people who like Pop and Rap(Which is mainstream) like U2, wait they hate U2. Can I name one person who is young and doesn't normally listen to rock music, like Vertigo, no. And how many young people like rock, very few. So the idea of U2 trying to capture the youth is a lie. I can only think of 3 people my age, I know who like any of U2's three singles, 2 like Vertigo, 2 like Sometimes, and 1 City(Same guy likes everyone of them. When U2 sellout we will hear them do a duet with a rapper.

Off-topic: Looks like only me and my 3 best friends are different. We heard U2, Pearl Jam, Metallica, Foo Fighters, Nirvana, sometimes even Beatles, Floyd, Queen...

I'm the only "hardcore" U2 fan that has all the albums and looks for bootlegs and rare stuff, but they all like them.

 

[Zoots]

The Edge fucking around with his guitar to produce new sounds that no one has ever heard before... that's experimentation! Venturing into unchartered territory (not only for them but for anyone) like they did in the 90s to the extent that they almost became a cult band of sorts... that's experimentation! Trying to go where your innermost creative instincts take you without giving a rat's ass about if the record will sell or whether everyone will like it... that's experimentation!

A little but of Philly soul inspiration in In A Little While is not experimentation! Creating a very summery Van Morrison-esque song is not really experimentation, more like a tribute. Trying to rework Pop so it'll sell well and everyone will like it most certainly isn't experimentation!


to the thread starter for trying to generate good discussion!

 

[starvinmarvin]

Experimentation is a subjective term. I'd venture that In A Little While is experimental for U2, as they had not yet written a song like that before. I guess to some people the band's electronic-tinged 90's output is experimental, and I believe that for U2 it was experimental, but then again U2 weren't exactly pioneers in that realm. Many of those sounds hadn't yet reached mainstream ears, but that doesn't mean other people weren't already doing similar things.

It's kind of the same thing with the Beatles. They are often credited with "inventing" new recording techniques, such as backwards recording, but the reality is that avant garde composers had already done those things years prior. It was just that The Beatles were the first to bring thoses sounds to the masses, so they get the credit. It's the same with U2.

I mean, hats off to U2 and The Beatles for searching for new sounds, but they don't deserve all of ther credit.

 

[xtihn]

...people say ATYCLB is mainstream, look at whats mainstream Britiny Spears, Eminem etc. maybe in the 80's U2 would be mainstream but look at todays mainstream and tell me who U2 sound like, if U2 are mainstream...

i don't think britney sounds like eminem, or vice versa. mainstream doesn't necessarily have a particular "sound"...to me it means something is popular or well known, whether for its merit or for its successful marketing/publicity. of course, the word mainstream has certain connotations of being "listener-friendly".

compare Pop vs. ATYCLB...ATYCLB is more "listener-friendly" because most of the songs' structure is conventional. Beautiful Day, Elevation, Stuck...were all successful radio hits. that's pretty mainstream.

mainstream doesn't necessarily mean evil or crappy (although it is inclusive). mainstream isn't just pop or rap like britney and eminem.

but now i'm afraid i've gotten a bit off topic, haven't i?

 

[innocent_eyes]

Wow!! Glad people apprecaite the thread...my pleasure!

Great discussion, it is interesting how many people can interpret experimentation.

Hopefully this discussion is fleshing out the reasons that most 90s fans dislike the 00s and hopefull it is giving these fans a new way to interpret the 00s.

I'm thinking that because they hadn't written any really formal tunes that they have been experimenting with infusing their own ideas into traditional rock, rather than being more of an alternative or euro- dance influenced group like they were in the 90s and a punk/new wave band of the early 80s and Arena rockers in the late 80s.

I really enjoy the 00s U2 sound, and i'm also a big fan of the 90s sound....and the 80s sound. I can appreciate what each era brings to the table. I think the possibility of writing more formal, really great rock tunes excites the band, that seems like what was missing from their career before the 00s.

Bono said during the recording of HTDAAB that they were interested in making rock and roll in the primary colours, guitar, drums, bass, voice, and were ecxited by the idea of writing great 45s, like the beatles, the stones, etc..

I think U2 is VERY capable of making new experimental sounds and structures, look at Love and peace, fast cars, and Mercy, for example!

 

[thrillme]

"Stuck in a Moment You Can't Get Out of" is "listener-friendly?" I'm probably one of the few people in a while to use the full title, for one. What U2 song from before 2000 sounds like this?

"All That You Can't Leave Behind"

"How To Dismantle an Atomic Bomb"

U2's past 2 albums have the longest titles of any of their albums, longer than most bands/artists too.

With titles like that, you're asking for people to listen closer.

"A Man and a Woman", is not like most "love" songs on the radio, most U2 "love" song are not.

Name 1 U2 love song that is straightforward. U2 has a shortage of wedding songs, ye know what I mean.

I have read that Adam wanted to have a more pure bass sound, on the last 2 albums as compared to before.

"Mainstream" what is mainstream. There is no common ground, radio formats are pretty structured, what's hot and what's not changes all the time.

U2 are popular because they are one of bands who've been out there, for more than a 4 or 5 years and still have a visible presence. You can fly under the radar if you want, but if you want people to hear your music, then you can't hide under a rock.

Any band that tours, wants their music to be heard.

You make a beautiful painting, sure part of you did it for yourself, for your own enjoyment, but isn't there also another part that wants others to see what you did?

If the Beatles had continued, (and Lennon wasn't killed), they'd probably still be attracting the masses, because a legacy like that, follows you.

There might be people who became fans of the Beatles or got into them because of that legacy. Regardless of the fact they disbanded many years ago.

How does a 14 year old get into the Beatles?, an older person possibly, introduces them to their music, or they hear their songs somewhere, or because the Beatles are considered legends and they'll find out about them eventually.

U2 gets 14 year old fans but U2 hasn't disbanded, they still record and tour, 25 years after their debut album. And they might have older fans who get the younger ones into them, or they get into U2 on their own by hearing a song.

The first U2 song I really liked, was "hold me, thrill me, kiss me, kill me," I was 13 when that song came out. Looking back, it was the guitar, the music that really hooked me, but I didn't go past liking the song to actually getting "in" to U2 till a few years later.

U2's the first band I got into, before that, I was strictly a song by song person.

 

[thrillme]

I think U2 is VERY capable of making new experimental sounds and structures, look at Love and peace, fast cars, and Mercy, for example!

It's funny, (weird, not really ha-ha), U2 did in fact record, Mercy, Fast Cars, the songs that are on the digi-box set some rave about, em, U2 made those songs.

So it only counts as a U2 song if it shows up on an album?

Summer Rain is a U2 song, Levitate, Xanax and Wine, U2 songs.

U2 are very aware of the digital music world, (maybe they gave U2 fans the benefit of the doubt), the fans are smart, they can make their own albums with the box-set.

People can download one song from a band, or the entire album, IPODs let you randomly listen to songs.

Some U2 songs made it to the "official" album and some didn't, but if you want to make your own album, go ahead, ye know.

 

[U2girl]

The Edge fucking around with his guitar to produce new sounds that no one has ever heard before... that's experimentation! Venturing into unchartered territory (not only for them but for anyone) like they did in the 90s to the extent that they almost became a cult band of sorts... that's experimentation! Trying to go where your innermost creative instincts take you without giving a rat's ass about if the record will sell or whether everyone will like it... that's experimentation!

A little but of Philly soul inspiration in In A Little While is not experimentation! Creating a very summery Van Morrison-esque song is not really experimentation, more like a tribute. Trying to rework Pop so it'll sell well and everyone will like it most certainly isn't experimentation!


to the thread starter for trying to generate good discussion!

There is more to experimentation than just messing around with Edge's guitar.
POP is not that experimental as some people make it out to be - for the most part it's a straightforward rock album.

ATYCLB did feature new sounds for U2, whether it is your kind of experimentation or not. They never tried out pop music before. Beautiful day, Stuck, In a little while, Wild honey, even the ambiental Grace are all new ground for the band.

To a smaller extent, so did the Bomb. 60's type of rock with All because of you, the glam rock stomp of Love and peace or else, the punk-ish Vertigo. Continued research of pop genre with A man and a woman and Original of the species.

 

[liamcool]

Achtung, Zooropa and Pop(not Pop, Zooropa) are not cohesive that much, but have more, much much much more guitar additions(distortions, delay, phaser...).

Distortion started in 88 with Desire at the latest, so Achtung didn't start the distortion.
Delay started in 79 with The Silver Lining (early 11 O'Clock Tick Tock) and A Day Without Me, so your statement of AB having the first use of delay is wrong. Also, pretty much EVERY U2 song until AB used delay. If that's what you mean is experimental (the lack of delay) then I apologise.
Oh, and phaser was debuted in 1982 with Treasure (Whatever Happened To Pete The Chop?). So all three of your examples are flawed in some way as AB was not the first album to use ANY of these effects.

 

[Irishteen]

Off-topic: Looks like only me and my 3 best friends are different. We heard U2, Pearl Jam, Metallica, Foo Fighters, Nirvana, sometimes even Beatles, Floyd, Queen...

I'm the only "hardcore" U2 fan that has all the albums and looks for bootlegs and rare stuff, but they all like them.

Well in Ireland, which should be where U2's fanbase is, out of 35 people, only one said he liked U2(Me).My history teacher was rambling on, like usual then he starts talking about the plane U2, then he asks, Does anyone like U2 the band, I was the only person who said yes, and was slaged about it for the rest of the year. I was locked in a small room almost everyday, and was told I would not be allowed out till I said U2 were the shitest band who ever lived, and say Rap music was the only good type of music. I was in there for sometimes up to a hour, by myself, trying to break down a firedoor, all over liking U2. People even try to burn my Vertigo tour t-shirt when i wear it, so to me U2 aren't that popular.

 

[innocent_eyes]

WTF??

Thats messed up Irishteen!!!

I would think that u2 wouldn't have the hardest time of all in Ireland...

although, i can see how the Irish might resent them for their success and fame.

How old are you? Just wondering what age this happened at, 15-16 or 18-19???

And rap.........hahha, i can sample music and rhyme quicky too. Rap hasn't had a trace of real musical quality since the very early nineties....and even then I didn't like it, but what is out there currently, yech!

 

[Irishteen]

WTF??

Thats messed up Irishteen!!!

I would think that u2 wouldn't have the hardest time of all in Ireland...

although, i can see how the Irish might resent them for their success and fame.

How old are you? Just wondering what age this happened at, 15-16 or 18-19???

And rap.........hahha, i can sample music and rhyme quicky too. Rap hasn't had a trace of real musical quality since the very early nineties....and even then I didn't like it, but what is out there currently, yech!

Im 15, one of the youngest in my class, but I don't say i hate 50 Cent or Emnem, but they all hate U2 for no reason.

 

[Miricale_Drug]

They hate u2 because they can't understand or relate to it. I've had similar issues to you, though on nowhere near your scale thankfully, but 50 cent and eminem (To use your examples) spell out what they're trying 2 say. U2 leave some work to the listeniner which most people don't appreciate. Anyway its their loss, not imne or yours. Its the same reason a lot of people can't take Pink Floyd

 

[namkcuR]

The Edge fucking around with his guitar to produce new sounds that no one has ever heard before... that's experimentation! Venturing into unchartered territory (not only for them but for anyone) like they did in the 90s to the extent that they almost became a cult band of sorts... that's experimentation! Trying to go where your innermost creative instincts take you without giving a rat's ass about if the record will sell or whether everyone will like it... that's experimentation!

A little but of Philly soul inspiration in In A Little While is not experimentation! Creating a very summery Van Morrison-esque song is not really experimentation, more like a tribute. Trying to rework Pop so it'll sell well and everyone will like it most certainly isn't experimentation!


to the thread starter for trying to generate good discussion!

Exactly