U2 - Zoo TV - Opening Night (1992)

[lazarus]

Then we agree they were into dance/Manchester/industrial sounds. I also remember an article that said Bono was imitating one of the Brit singers of the time on Mysterious ways verses (the name escapes me).

What I'm getting at is that with Joshua Tree and Rattle and Hum (even the movie alone) you could sense the honest soaking up and admiration/respect of American culture and music. With AB/Pop/ATYCLB it feels more like "ok, this is the hot music now in Europe/UK, let's sound like that". It's not they were doing that to make money, it' feels more like they were hopping onto the latest sounds of the time, to be hip. In contrast, there seems to be a more genuine desire in moving into Morocco for Arabic/African sounds.

The problem with that line of thinking is that Manchester and Industrial European sound nothing alike! That's the distinction I tried to make in my last post. And if there's one thing that Manchester wasn't about, it was metallic and abrasive, and that's exactly what comes scratching and crawling out of the speakers when Zoo Station comes on. Not the sound of a band trying to hop onto any kind of popular sound. If they had led the album with Mysterious Ways, or released it first, or written several more songs like it, then you'd have a point.

But as it was pointed out by StoneRoses, anyone into Manchester would have hated this stuff when it came out. It was taking a pinch (A PINCH) of the Manchester sound and combining it with this hard-edged Eastern European-style, something UNPOPULAR in terms of the mainstream, that gives AB its signature, hybrid style.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

And it's really only evident in the absolute tiniest degree in only a couple of Achtung songs. Really. Think about the songs on that album. It has a very consistent overall sound and feel, but it's an incredibly varied album. It's really all over the place. I can only think of two or three points there that *may* have had some influence from that scene. Maybe Mysterious Ways, maybe Even Better than the Real Thing, maybe Tryin' To Throw Your Arms Around the World. Maybe. And only in tiny sprinkles deep within those songs. Incredibly tiny, and in the end sounding absolutely nothing like the 'Manchester' scene at all. Nothing like it.

 

[theu2fly]

As a huge fan, I must say that ZOOTV was a parody of the late commercialistic 90s, and also U2 saying goodbye to their 80s image full of flag waving and preaching anthems. Bono had won fans over already with his charisma and voice, it was time to take it to another level.

I never saw ZOO TV as selling out, but rather -- U2 wanted to stay in the game and thought of a new idea to present itself. Sure they could have toured stadiums again like they did in the Joshua Tree -- but would the new material have been successful and received without the lights and video? Probably not...

U2 had to adapt to the changing of times, they knew they had to change in order to keep on the wave of the early 90s. Grunge was taking over, and most 80s starts were fading or only living short found fame. It was a gamble, maybe not understood by all -- but U2 has the last laugh, they parodied the 90s, only being 3 years into it (when the tour ended in 1993) but also came out on top.

They did play a lot of classics on the first few legs of the tour, Van Diemen's Land, I Will Follow, Sunday Bloody Sunday, Bad... but also snippets of One Tree Hill, Walk to the Water and All I Want Is You. I think in some degree the band knew that people coming to their shows would be wanting to hear With Or Without You, Pride, stuff that was still fresh from a few years back. While ditching some the older material, because they may have felt it was too predictable, they started off with about 6 new songs from Achtung, Baby! New Year's Day was the first break off song to follow Until the End Of The World.

The band I believe knew the risks, but also took risks to get to higher places. Yes they didn't play a lot of their 80s songs, but by then people had heard them and thought U2 was more preaching than actual rocking out. It was a smart move. Popmart was a continuation of Zoo TV, but that's another time...

 

[Strongbow]

So what would think if the opening date of the tour in 2009 had a set list like this:

1. New song
2. New song
3. New song
4. New song
5. New song
6. New song
7. New song
8. New song
9. I Will Follow
10. Beautiful Day
11. Elevation
12. Vertigo
13. Original Of The Species
14. New Song
15. Mysterious Ways

16. Where The Streets Have No Name
17. Pride
18. All Because Of You
19. With Or Without You

20. City Of Blinding Lights
21. One
22. New Song

 

[lazarus]

Bring it. But had they done that with ATYCLB it would have been a pretty lame concert.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Bring it. But had they done that with ATYCLB it would have been a pretty lame concert.

If the material and the live concept can handle it, absolutely. If they can't, absolutely not. Achtung/Zoo could. Pop/ATYCLB/HTDAAB definitely could not. In principle, I have no problem, but in reality, if they'd tried it for, say, ATYCLB as well (post another reset/makeover) it would have fallen flat on it's face. The songs, themes, concept just were not even remotely strong enough. I don't think we'll ever see it again. I think at their age and stage they'll - barring a miracle that I am absolutely praying for - continue with good/successful/solid but not 'great' new music, and the live shows will continue to be "a U2 celebration" rather than ever a vehicle that represents a stage in time and place 'right now'. They're an entirely different beast now.

 

[U2girl]

The problem with that line of thinking is that Manchester and Industrial European sound nothing alike! That's the distinction I tried to make in my last post. And if there's one thing that Manchester wasn't about, it was metallic and abrasive, and that's exactly what comes scratching and crawling out of the speakers when Zoo Station comes on. Not the sound of a band trying to hop onto any kind of popular sound. If they had led the album with Mysterious Ways, or released it first, or written several more songs like it, then you'd have a point.

But as it was pointed out by StoneRoses, anyone into Manchester would have hated this stuff when it came out. It was taking a pinch (A PINCH) of the Manchester sound and combining it with this hard-edged Eastern European-style, something UNPOPULAR in terms of the mainstream, that gives AB its signature, hybrid style.

Of course they don't. I just said AB has elements of both - you seem to agree with that. MW was a single (one of the two biggest of AB), as was the more industrial The Fly.

And as was also stated, they were listening to Manchester.

 

[U2girl]

So what would think if the opening date of the tour in 2009 had a set list like this:

1. New song
2. New song
3. New song
4. New song
5. New song
6. New song
7. New song
8. New song
9. I Will Follow
10. Beautiful Day
11. Elevation
12. Vertigo
13. Original Of The Species
14. New Song
15. Mysterious Ways

16. Where The Streets Have No Name
17. Pride
18. All Because Of You
19. With Or Without You

20. City Of Blinding Lights
21. One
22. New Song

Been there, done that.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

The distance between that and a charge of full on bandwagoning is massive though.

 

[An Cat Gav]

The problem with that line of thinking is that Manchester and Industrial European sound nothing alike! That's the distinction I tried to make in my last post. And if there's one thing that Manchester wasn't about, it was metallic and abrasive, and that's exactly what comes scratching and crawling out of the speakers when Zoo Station comes on. Not the sound of a band trying to hop onto any kind of popular sound. If they had led the album with Mysterious Ways, or released it first, or written several more songs like it, then you'd have a point.

But as it was pointed out by StoneRoses, anyone into Manchester would have hated this stuff when it came out. It was taking a pinch (A PINCH) of the Manchester sound and combining it with this hard-edged Eastern European-style, something UNPOPULAR in terms of the mainstream, that gives AB its signature, hybrid style.

Great post.

 

[chrissybaby]

The 8 Achtung songs in 92 were so amazing because the album was so amazing. I think U2 are ready to do something similar again. Stop pleasing us and start pleasing themselves.

 

[StoneRoses]

The distance between that and a charge of full on bandwagoning is massive though.

Sometimes it's only a very fine line between sucess and failure though, had bands like The Happy Mondays and The Stone Roses not been around at that time and creating a new sound, would Achtung Baby have sounded how it did and been the success that it was???

If Bono had not been inspired by these groups it would be interesting to see whether they would of had the same success.

So it depends on how you look at it, you could say they stole from the up and coming bands who were the cutting edge of the music scene at that point and jumped on the bandwagon of indie/dance/rock and used their position as the biggest band in the world and said 'hey listen to what we've come up with'!

or you could say they took inspiration from these groups and used the same style of sound and incorporated into their own music and came up with a great album. Which like i said, isn't that what great musicians do? Take inspiration from others to make something of their own.

 

[lazarus]

But they didn't use the same style of sound. I think the influence of Manchester is much less than some are making it out to be. Which is why I have a problem with the charge that they were as "calculating" in terms of mainstream success back in '90 then they are now. Because this industrial, abrasive sound is NOT where popular music was, or where tastes were likely to turn. This album wasn't successful and loved because it was a new sound, it was because it was U2, and because they wrote some great songs and put together a can't-miss tour to accompany it. The band laid down a CHALLENGE to their listeners, and while your average U2 fan didn't necessarily go out and buy KMFDM, My Bloody Valentine, whatever, they were probably more open to new sounds because of it.

Don't tell me there's something challenging about ATYLCB--the risk of people not wanting to hear pop music? Now I'm not condemning the experiment of trying to craft this kind of music--I don't think the result was entirely successful--but I'm hoping they can get out of this mode and back into something a little riskier.

 

[Muldfeld]

It fits right along with the gazillions of drooling posts over 90's U2. Talk about being stuck in a moment.

As for calculating, they were soaking up (or sucking up to, if you prefer) MTV big time (and AB was U2 feeding off the early 90's Europe-namely Manchester scene). Nothing as calculating as, a few years later, hiring a DJ to produce your album right along the techno/dance craze in Europe, too.

I think they suck up to MTV far, far more now. I think it's undeniable that they're more into the lowest common denominator forms of publicity. They were always into publicity before, but they'll talk to the dumbest VJs and go on Saturday Night Live and any old crappy talk show, and have their songs sold for any purpose, including that awful Mary J. Blige cover of One. They're willing to do anything, and I'd find it all more acceptable if they hadn't compromise their art as well. But they had to go and do that, too.

I just hope U2 can get enough confidence and sense of priorities to realize how important it is to stay true to their art -- to be original and not just some echo of The Beatles or typical mainstream pop or even their past work. They're better than that.

 

[Zoots]

What a fucking great video! That was by far the coolest Bono right there... and I'm not talking about the looks.

I want that U2 back.

Not necessarily the same music/image/tour, but that attitude.

AMEN!!! The attitude!

 

[BrownEyedBoy]

I saw a comedy show at Lakeland arena back in March, and all I could think of was the historical significance to U2 fans, and that the fuckin' Fly was born there. Although, I must say, the place is sorely outdated now....and small!

I won't say anything bad about the town of Lakeland, but let's just say it wasn't my favorite city....

Can you (or anyone else) tell the story of how th Fly was born there?

 

[Earnie Shavers]

I don't know if there's some other story, but I assume he's talking about the character (not the song), ie made his debut there.

 

[Strongbow]

I think they suck up to MTV far, far more now. I think it's undeniable that they're more into the lowest common denominator forms of publicity. They were always into publicity before, but they'll talk to the dumbest VJs and go on Saturday Night Live and any old crappy talk show, and have their songs sold for any purpose, including that awful Mary J. Blige cover of One. They're willing to do anything, and I'd find it all more acceptable if they hadn't compromise their art as well. But they had to go and do that, too.

I just hope U2 can get enough confidence and sense of priorities to realize how important it is to stay true to their art -- to be original and not just some echo of The Beatles or typical mainstream pop or even their past work. They're better than that.

The band used to go on any show that would have them prior to the Unforgettable Fire album and tour, so that is not new at all. I think they have always been true to the art, and although I think Achtung Baby is their best album, this decades U2 music is turning out to be better than the 90s and I think the band agrees.

 

[catlhere]

I think they suck up to MTV far, far more now. I think it's undeniable that they're more into the lowest common denominator forms of publicity. They were always into publicity before, but they'll talk to the dumbest VJs and go on Saturday Night Live and any old crappy talk show, and have their songs sold for any purpose, including that awful Mary J. Blige cover of One. They're willing to do anything, and I'd find it all more acceptable if they hadn't compromise their art as well. But they had to go and do that, too.

I just hope U2 can get enough confidence and sense of priorities to realize how important it is to stay true to their art -- to be original and not just some echo of The Beatles or typical mainstream pop or even their past work. They're better than that.

 

[Nate Dogg]

Can you (or anyone else) tell the story of how th Fly was born there?

Yeah, I just meant that it was the first ZOO TV show, so it was the first appearance on stage of Bono in full "Fly" mode: shades, leather, and attitude!

 

[U2girl]

Don't tell me there's something challenging about ATYLCB--the risk of people not wanting to hear pop music? Now I'm not condemning the experiment of trying to craft this kind of music--I don't think the result was entirely successful--but I'm hoping they can get out of this mode and back into something a little riskier.

I don't necessarily see much difference in borrowing off (happens all the time in rock) popular music of the time with AB, Pop and ATYCLB. I don't really see why only the latter gets flagged with the "SELLOUT" cries.

Doing TV shows ? Hello top of the pops in the 80's and doing One on that show.
Being on MTV a lot ? Like they weren't there all the time in the early 90s, plus several (M)TV specials.
Sellling songs/Ipods ? That's what happens when you don't get on the radio or MTV as much. Alternative. Marketing. (and they talk about cutting off the middle man in distrubution of music in Flanagan's book)
Playing the award shows ? They did several MTV award shows in the 90's, as well as appearing on the Grammys pre 2000.
Being everyhwere ? Hello 1988; featuring a full blown movie, album and a book.
All of the above at significantly bigger album sales and more airplay on MTV/radio. And the tours of the time weren't weak.

You know why they have to work this hard in this millenium, as discussed above. It is, I guess, a curse of being U2 that all albums have a big promotion and all tours are massive events (and that out of all the markets, US seems to have the love/hate relationship with the band). I wish they'd lighten up on the US charts front, and not every Christmas needs a U2 release of some sort (I'm wondering if Interscope had a part in this). It seems by their interviews that they are indeed getting out of the current phase.


As for birth of the Fly, I think that was before the tour. What was born, literally on the first night, was the opening hopping around into Zoo Station.

 

[Strongbow]

Here is U2 on 120 minutes, from April 19, 1992.

U2 Adam Clayton & Edge (Zoo TV era - part 1/2)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR9x39T1egk&feature=related

U2 Adam Clayton & Edge (Zoo TV era - part 2/2)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR8iqFkliAQ&feature=related

 

[skott100]

This whole Madchester debate is quite interesting because my musical life at that time revolved around Achtung Baby and a lot of those Manchester bands from that era. That said, I think people use the term as shorthand for a dance/rock hybrid, which is what a lot of AB is. I don't hear anything on AB that I'd categorize as "Baggy" really, but I think the Manchester scene was simply a point of departure for U2 where they realized they could bring a more rhythmic element into their rock songs.

Just thought I'd offer up some diplomacy here. Dig it?

 

[Strongbow]

Bring it. But had they done that with ATYCLB it would have been a pretty lame concert.

So what would think if the opening date of the tour in 2009 had a set list like this instead, just 6 songs from the new album mixed in with the others:

1. New song
2. New song
3. I Will Follow
4. Beautiful Day
5. Elevation
6. New song
7. The Hands That Built America
8. Vertigo
9. Window In The Sky
10. All Because Of You
11. New Song
12. Original Of The Species
13. Mysterious Ways
14. New Song
15. Where The Streets Have No Name

16. Pride
17. Stuck In A Moment
18. With Or Without You
19. Walk On

20. City Of Blinding Lights
21. One
22. New Song

 

[lazarus]

Ha ha ha...The Hands that Built America.

Keep dreaming.

 

[Salome]

people seem to want to equate the change in direction U2 made when recording Achtung Baby to the change they made when recording All that you can't ...... even though the reason why the band decided on the (both times) quite severe change came from totally different reasons

it's hard to deny that U2 were on a musical high at the latter part of the 80. Joshua Tree, the new tracks on R&H, all the b-sides from the period, it seemed that everything they touched turned into gold
but at the same time after R&H people were a bit sick and tired of the way you couldn't pick up a music mag, turn on a music channel without seeing U2
and the image of the band at the time didn't really help

so U2 changed
they had to really, otherwise they would have become a parody of themselves (much like after War) and people would become fed up with them
the band who sounded like nothing or no one else finally started to listen to other music that was around at the time and ended up still sounding like no other band around with Achtung Baby

they tried to push this forward but with Pop they partly failed to incorporate the outside world with their own sound

they had nowhere to go but to change again
and this time instead of getting inspiration from the outside world the band took inspiration from their own sound and created All that you can't .....
still sounding like no other band around, sounding even more like themselves again

now, to call this simply marketing strategy is completely shortsighted
in a way the change around the time of Achtung ... was more forced than the one around the time of Pop
had U2 not changed their sound after R&H they would have died as a great 80's band
if U2 hadn't changed their sound after Pop they could have gone on for ages catering for a slightly slinking but still big enough fan base

it also is hard to deny that the attitude change around ZOO TV was 100% dictated by the criticism of the band's attitude at the end of the 80s
I'd like to think that they did so while mocking the music media, but still the result was that everyone who had been moaning about the band coming across as holier than thou got their way
the change in direction after Pop wasn't directed by anything
by turning back towards being U2 they actually made themselved more vulnerable and hadn't it been for Beautiful Day it could have ended up in a more deadly risk than Achtung could ever have been

and yes ... U2 do cater to the music industry in a different way now than back then, but do you know what?
more than 15 years have passed since Achtung Baby!!!
do you really expect things to stay the same?

in the end we talk a lot of crap on here like we know what is going on
but we actually know a precious little