U2,s current incarnation as a pop band!

[corianderstem]

The shift key is your friend, Shaun. Learn to love it.

 

[BVS]

would you tell jimmy page/hendrix/clapton or brian may to change their sound?

They all did, some many times in their career.

he could just play some power cords and have a crappy amp sound and make pop music so he could get on the radio and make alot off $$$$ but NO!!

Or he could just have released a shitty cover album, released crappy live and studio greatests hits, and shit solo albums...oh wait too late.

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

let me get this straight...shaun is complaining that U2 doesn't sound enough like guns n roses/velvet revolver? why doesn't he just listen to them then? i mean i like duran duran but you won't ever see me start a thread complaining that they don't make enough synth and keyboard driven songs. if i wanted that i'd just put on some duran duran.

 

[shaun vox]

you my friend have no soul!

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Shaun, are you using Slash to in any way justify an argument that involves The Edge?!? They play guitar so differently, with such a different purpose, that it really is only on a technicality that they are playing the same instrument. I've got no beef with Slash, he's an outstanding guitarist, but seriously, they are so different...

 

[Junebug]

In my opinion, HTDAAB and ATYCLB are not pop music at all. The songs on those two albums have the same emotional depth that all their other albums have, only a different kind. During the 80s, U2 had a real naivete, ecstatic energy, and their music reflected that. During the 90s, they were exploring more dark, ironic feelings, and their music was shaped around that. Nowadays, they seem to be reflecting on more personal things, more personal issues, so their music may be a bit more subtle and hopeful, not so violent like Achtung Baby. But that doesn't mean it's become shallow. Just because their music now doesn't involve Edge's guitar being "in your face" or Larry drumming "hard enough", doesn't mean it's become shallow, pop music. If it's just not to your taste, that's alright, but I think people are mistaken when they say U2 have become fluffy. I'm not defending them, this is just my opinion on the matter.

 

[Lancemc]

Am I the only person here who understands that U2 have ALWAYS been a pop band?

I know definitions are never that affective in something like this, but here's the Oxford American Desk Dictionary definition of "pop" (as it regards to music):

1. in a popular or modern style
2. performing popular music

Ah, now the second one certainly peeks my interest. So, we know U2 perform. And we know they perform music. And the basic discussion here is whether U2 now, or did perform "popular music". So, now here is the definition of "popular" from the same source.

1. liked or admired by many people or by a specified group.
2. a. of or carried on by the general public
b. prevalent among the general public
3. adapted to the understanding, taste, or means of the people.

So, does U2 play the music characterized by the above traits?

Oh you bet they do, and you bet they always did. While they were never really popular to a large specified group until about the WAR era (one could reasonably state), until that point, U2 were TRYING to get known. They, especially Bono always wanted to be huge, wanted to be a star. Read up on Neil McKormicks latest book to see the great details about the early period of U2's existence and you'll see what I mean.

Then by the time U2 played Live Aid, and then released the Joshua Tree album just 2 years later (which has sold what? Over 17 million copies?) they were the world's biggest band. They have pretty much held that title for the past 18 years, being admired and prevalent among one of the largest fanbases in the history of modern music.

U2 have also always been able at adapting and embraces every new taste and style over their career. They mastered the pop song by the time they released The Joshua Tree. (Don't even try to tell me that With or Without you, I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For, and even Pride aren't excellent pop songs). They later went into the 90's embracing dance music, techno, elements of grundge and the new underground movements. Now the world is tired of all that irony and 90's "style". U2 now just great excellent pop songs, and modern anthems for the band. "Beautiful Day" is one of the best songs they've ever written.

My point is simple, regardless of all that analysis above. U2 are a pop band, and they always were. Regardless of what Bono has said in the past, U2 has always been (excpet for the short period at the beginning of their career) a powerful pop band that plays some awesome rock music. Ah-ha. Another point I'd like to make.

From the same source:

rock: 2=rock and roll. popular music originating in the 1950's, characterized by a heavy beat and simple melodies.

I really like how it is described as a type of popular music. It might not be the perfect definition of "rock" as I feel Rock is what the music listening community makes it. It has certianly evolved from it's 50's incarnation of rock and roll, but it's still essentially the same thing. U2 is a pop band. U2 plays rock music. They write pop songs in the rock genre. Call it whatever you will.
Just don't be fooled into thinking that U2 only "became" a rock band with the release of Beautiful Day.

 

[Axver]

Wow, Slash looks like such a pansy.

 

[Tennis05]

Bono discussed this in an interview and i think we all look at pop as some kind of shameful thing- Bubblegum pop is, regular pop isn't. tell REM or the beatles that the music they made wasn't energetic enough or that they didnt sound enough like led zeppelin. bono says that kurt cobain used to refer to nirvana as a pop band. are u telling me that nirvana wasnt loud enough. and would u rather have u2 sounding the same for 25 years? thats how bands cease to exist in t he public eye.

 

[Lancemc]

Good call Tennis.

 

[Junebug]

Er, I hope I didn't imply that I thought pop music was a shameful thing. I was just using the term "pop" because a lot of people ASSUME it refers to the fluffy, bubblegum type of pop. And I don't think U2's music today bares much resemblence to their 80's music, which I hear people saying repeatedly. Yeah, maybe the chiming guitars, but that's about it.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

'What is pop music?' is a thread for Bang & Clatter that would last 50 pages and come to no conclusion. In the broadest sense your definition above is of course correct and virtually every band we ever discuss in these forums is a pop band. Radiohead are a pop band. U2 are a pop band. Hanson are a pop band. Basement Jaxx are a pop group. Kylie Minogue is a pop act. Interpol are a pop group. Ashley Simpson is a pop act. PJ Harvey is a pop act. Nelly is a pop act. The Beastie Boys are a pop group. All under the same umbrella. In another sense it is the most commercial end of each style of music. In another way it's where the music is written from and why. In that sense Ashley Simpson is a pop act and PJ Harvey is not. In another sense again it is in the style of writing. Pop music being hook after hook, catchy, easy on the mind, simplified songs. It's lightness where there is heaviness in everything else. In that sense Belle & Sebastian are a pop band. Blur are a pop band. Radiohead (for the most part) are not. U2 have always been a pop band in the sense that with everything post-War they've been a universally popular band. U2 have always been a pop band in the sense that they've always used pop sensibilities in their writing. The hook, the melody, the catchline has always been of the utmost importance. U2 have always been a pop band in that their universal popularity has always been of massive importance to them. There is no real fixed definition and the scale and borders of what is 'pop' varies with each example. To use the broadest definition there's still a scale, where at one end within 'popular rock' there's something like Matchbox 20's Mad Season and at the other there is something like Radioheads Kid A. The truth is of course that Achtung Baby and Zooropa are also pop albums along with Atomic Bomb and All That You Can't. Why people in here define those last two as solely pop albums in comparison to the others is because they are, to them, far closer to the Matchbox 20 end then the Radiohead end of that scale. They are simplified. Hook heavy. Easy on the ear and mind. Despite sounding quite unique they still all easily fit into the most commercial FM playlist. They come on strong early, but fade quickly. They are not rock songs with pop sensibilities, but pop songs with rock sensibilities. Within U2's own catalogue they are at one end with Passengers at the other. They are not competing with Snow Patrol or Interpol or whoever for being the best, interesting, creative popular rock music album of the year (and if any of you think U2 are still a contender in that arena you are truly delusional). They are competing with the Maroon 5's and Ashley Simpsons for airspace, for mass popular culture influence. They're not U2's only pop albums, and U2 haven't suddenly become a pop band. But they are U2's only solely pop albums, and U2's most pop albums and songs and U2 certainly seem to want to be a pop band now more than ever, at least openly. Their drive now doesn't seem to be about what the music is doing, but where the music is heard.

 

[Lancemc]

You're probably 100% right Earnie.

Where I see a difference however is that I feel that U2 still genuinely love the music they are writing and playing, because they wouldn't put out an album if they didn't have the passion for it anymore. Even the most commercial sides of the band wouldn't let that happen, and that's something that I think all of us still know in our hearts.

Truth be told, a lot of the songs on ATYCLB and HTDAAB are still better than Snow Patrol and Interpol, at least I believe so. And don't get me wrong, I love those two bands. Then again, the "Best" word when it comes to this subject is even more dangerous than "pop".

Really, the bottom line is, you either love the music or you don't. I still believe U2 love the music, and I do as well.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

I do too, although I think a passion can be, to a degree, satisfied and I think what gives them satisfaction with their passion is probably quite different now. Both as they are creating the music, and in what the music creates once it's out there. I think within that is where U2 could very well make a big mistake. I do believe that this next album is as important if not more so than the album that came after Rattle & Hum and the album that came after Pop.

 

[Lancemc]

We shall have to wait and see then shant we?

 

[Earnie Shavers]

.... and wait and wait and wait and wait.....

 

[mikal]

i officially yawned 47 times while reading this thread. the only way i'll wake up is if u2girl posts again.

 

[Lemonfix]

Slash has pet snakes

 

[liamcool]

I have a jukebox.

 

[jacknife23]

Play Achtung Baby back to back with other albums of that time (1990-1993) and you'd discover of the best pop album of all time.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Well, given 14 years for the dust to settle between it's release and now, what albums do you put Achtung up against from that period? MC Hammer 'Please Hammer Don't Hurt 'Em' or Bon Jovi 'Keep The Faith' or Massive Attack 'Blue Lines' or Nirvana 'Nevermind'? By some definitions they're all pop albums. Please Hammer Don't Hurt 'Em probably outsold all else in 1990. That Bon Jovi album had rock anthem hit after rock anthem hit after rock anthem hit. Blue Lines was a new sound for a new generation and a new technology at the start of a new decade that blew music in more directions then ever before. Nevermind changed the face and sound and image of rock for at least a decade, even more, and brought millions and millions of disillusioned teens under it's wing. What 'pop' is it that you are standing Achtung up against for that generation? And what 'pop' do you think The Bomb is on a level with today and will be put alongside in another 10 years?

 

[bread n' whine]

Yeah, ATYCLB is good, but not great. That record got both unfairly criticized and unfairly praised.

It was an incredibly good album for any band to make 20 years into its career, that should be said, and I would disagree that they suck at pop. "Beautiful Day" is pure pop, and one of the best pure pop songs to hit radio, well, ever. From the way U2 gets sucked up to in the press, you would think all their new songs are populist perfection on the level of "Beautiful Day," but sadly it's not so.

Looking back on ATYCLB I don't have anything but fondness for it, even though it's not that great, because HTDAAB is a disaster. The few listenable songs on HTDAAB are simply retreads of past U2. The only thing like that on the previous album was "Walk On." I skip "When I Look at the World," and "Grace" is nothing too special (well, musically) but this is just your average U2 filler. If the great songs on the album were truly brilliant rather than just really good, it wouldn't matter. But it does have "New York" and "In a Little While" which would have been worthy of being on their best albums.

I loved "Elevation" as a brilliantly catchy throwaway pop single. I hated it when it came back under the new title "Vertigo," pretended to be serious, pretended to be a U2 album opener and first single (historically their best tracks), and sold fuckloads of iPods. If any song should have been selling iPods it was "Elevation."

And for all its faults "Vertigo" still managed to be about the most enjoyable thing on the lame album. That tells you about how much I like it. The lyrics-- ack. There is one good lyric in "Vertigo" and a verse I like in "City of Blinding Lights." Okay, "Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own" is a good song. "Miracle Drug" might possibly have been a good song if it had come out in 1987. "One Step Closer" is better than "The First Time" but it's the exact same thing again. "Yahweh" is among the worst songs I've ever heard.

It's not worth talking too much about that album. Besides "Sometimes...," it wasn't really designed to be listened to or thought about, it was designed to get into radio playlists and it seems to have done its job.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

I certainly agree with one sentiment in the above - if U2 are to do pure pop, Beautiful Day is about as good as it gets. That is a clean, great, pop rocker that somehow manages to not let go of it's U2-ness. Vertigo sounds like U2 desperately, desperately, desperately trying to hang on to young/relevent and it fails miserably. Due to the iPod ad, it may well go down as one of their 3 or 4 most recognisable tracks, along with Beautiful Day, Streets, Still Haven't Found and Sunday Bloody Sunday. What a fucking crime.

 

[bread n' whine]

Yeah, Beautiful Day also isnt looking backward, that's what people forget. It's not challenging or experimental music, but it doesn't sound like any previous U2 song, it sounds like all of them mixed together. There is drum machine and synth, there is a great guitar riff, there is optimism but there is still just a bit of doubt, every element of U2's career tastefully compressed into 4 minutes without seeming intentional. But really-- that song must have taken years and years to get exactly right. You can imagine. But you can't hear it. The mix is flawless, but effortless.

As for the message of the song, it worked the first time U2 wrote it. And the lyrics are very good within the pop constraints.

Actually to be fair, they havent attempted rewriting "Beautiful Day"... yet. But at this rate, the day will surely come.

 

[bedouin fire]

do you all realize that all music discussion looses its credibility when names like slash are mentioned?

 

[shaun vox]

do you all realize that all music discussion looses its credibility when names like slash are mentioned?

em does Edge ring a bell? how about bono ya i rest my case!

 

[KUEFC09U2]

em does Edge ring a bell? how about bono ya i rest my case!

slash uses the same solo in pretty much every song

 

[yimou]

slash uses the same solo in pretty much every song

Because its a great solo

 

[Lancemc]

em does Edge ring a bell? how about bono ya i rest my case!

What the fuck does that even mean?

 

[Sleep Over Jack]

They are not competing with Snow Patrol or Interpol or whoever for being the best, interesting, creative popular rock music album of the year (and if any of you think U2 are still a contender in that arena you are truly delusional).

I don't think you'll find many citing Snow Patrol as making "one of the best albums of the year".